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RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 7:40:33 AM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

I understand what youre saying MR, but dont you find that one can often tell whats genuine from whats not? Consistency, examples, detail and so on denote genuine to me - its not possible to fake in depth knowledge without being discovered I think. I reckon that if I should post some advice about ropework that it would be obvious that I didnt know what I was talking about.

LadyEllen

a person can spend 30 years accumulating knowledge on a certain subject; become an expert at debating their view on it; know everything that there is to know...yet...not have any practical, real life experience in regards to it.

Just because someone knows about something, and can come off sounding like an expert in it, does not make them knowledgeable.

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Post #: 21

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 7:42:20 AM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

I much prefer to use the word Competent rather than Expert.
I am Competent at a fair number of SM skills, and have a basic competency at a variety of relationship skills.

But they don't offer Competent on the list for CM.

Thats a good way to put it. I don't feel comfortable saying I'm an expert in anything, but there are plenty of things I feel comfortable saying I know how to do (i.e. competent), but somehow to me expert rises to a whole different level.

C~

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(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 22

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 7:42:58 AM

mstrjx

Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
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Well, as far as 'you're concerned'.........

Snark, sarcasm, headgames are an entree' into the CM world.

But as far as anyone here really knows, that's all I can prove. I don't think there is a soul here who has seen what I do or how I do it. With my partner, we have been slow to build up much of our dynamic and play, so I can lay claim to no credible witness as the present.

It's all chit-chat, conversation, condescension, with the odd bit of clarity thrown in. For spice.

Jeff

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Post #: 23

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 7:46:34 AM

Archer

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That said and before someone points to my profile, LOL. I have selected "expert" on a few areas on my profile.

I used the criteria of: Am I competent enough to actually teach a class on the subject? But it bothered me little to do it.

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

Post #: 24

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 7:48:00 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
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From: Charleston, WV
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For me, it really doesn't matter about experience...it matters what they say and if they say something that resonates with me. I've gotten some of the most thought provoking advice/comments from people I don't like or respect...and that don't have all the experience and knowledge they claim to have.

Master Fire

_____________________________

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(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 25

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 7:55:40 AM

nearnyccouple

Posts: 70
Joined: 3/22/2007
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claiming expertise and actually having it are two different things. as with all things in life, im always open to sharing and exchanging ideas..... its how we learn...what i do with the information is another story...do i believe everything i hear? i will take more seriously ideas and concepts i learn from someone i know and respect. but i wont totally discount those things from those i dont.

cassie

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 26

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 7:56:55 AM

imthatacheyouhav

Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

This is a spin off from Mistoferin's thread "claiming experience and giving advice".

Whilst none of us is expert at everything, I reckon that each of us has expertise in at least one area that might be accounted superior, however small and specialised that expertise might be. We have gained it through personal interest, experience, education, whatever.

So, what is it for you would you say? And is there anyone else here whose expertise in a certain field you regard as worthwhile listening to?

For me for instance, LadyHugs is the heroine of all things slappy and stingy. And my expertise lies in all things transgender (in the widest possible sense).

Over to you. But please, be nice!

E

To the O.P. what you said is great and the spirit in which you intended it....i agree with you...there must be a wealth of information on this site from various people and backgrounds it will be nice to see the community share with one another....i for one have experience in being a mom (3 grown kids that turned out nicely LOL) and a grandma...i also have been married 24 years ...and i have been an apprentice butcher...so if you need advice on a steak look no further...LOL...

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(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 27

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 8:01:04 AM

MadRabbit

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Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Its occurred to me since I posted the OP that some might not feel comfortable with claiming expertise in a certain area, even though they have it.
E

I would be more worried about the people comfortable to claim experstise in a certain area, even though they dont have it.

I understand what youre saying MR, but dont you find that one can often tell whats genuine from whats not? Consistency, examples, detail and so on denote genuine to me - its not possible to fake in depth knowledge without being discovered I think. I reckon that if I should post some advice about ropework that it would be obvious that I didnt know what I was talking about.

E

I could tell if someone was giving me genuine information on waxplay if I were to base it on the genuine information I had about waxplay...which is why I am so adamamantly against using forums such as these as a learning tool when you dont already have a variety of base knowledge and experiences to work from.

I have taken a lot of things from these forums and applied them to my own style, but my success in doing is largely based on the knowledge I already had.

On the other hand...on this website...we have all these assholes that nobody likes who all come out with their snarky and rude comments to blatantly say "Hey...thats horseshit!"

If 6 people say its wrong, then I can conclude with somewhat certainity that it is, in fact, wrong. This is why I appreciate all the negativity that everyone likes to rant about in the sensitive corner...even when I am the target.

So...let me take a minute to thank all you snarky, rude, assholes...because its threw your wonderful efforts that my learning experience here has been so rich.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 6/7/2007 8:04:20 AM >

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(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 28

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 8:23:25 AM

BlindDescent

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Joined: 9/26/2006
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Expert has never implied perfection to my knowledge. The definition of expert talks about aquired skills and experience. It doesn't focus on competence or mastery...interesting. So someone could be a negative expert at doing something that looked good on the outside, but really sucked on closer examination or after they left. That might relate to tradesmen, accountants, etc.; or those full of self importance here.
That being said; I feel there is a tremendous amount to learn from everyone here, both positively and negatively. Just taste the bait without swallowing the hook. Listen to the tone and content of what people say here. Just because it is spoken with authority, doesn't mean it is gospel...it is just that person's perception of their own rightness in that thought train. Passion about one's own point of view isn't nescessarily truth nor honesty.
As to my own expertise; I am pretty good at making rational descisions. I have 25 yrs of expertise at subduing and restraining violent mentally ill patients. Most of all, I have expertise at knowing I do not know everything; and that I can learn many lessons from unexpected sources.
I value the positive sources I have met here; while appreciating the no so positive ones for teaching me how not to be.

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(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)

Post #: 29

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 8:31:08 AM

mrbob726

Posts: 155
Joined: 4/15/2007
From: Illinois
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I checked a couple of things on my profile as "expert". I did so only because there was no choice of "very good at". Then, I think it's pretty hard to set up a system like this that can account for all the various levels of competancy.

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(in reply to BlindDescent)

Post #: 30

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 8:35:15 AM

mrbob726

Posts: 155
Joined: 4/15/2007
From: Illinois
Status: offline

"Most of all, I have expertise at knowing I do not know everything; and that I can learn many lessons from unexpected sources."
(edited because my intent was to "ditto" BlindDescent )

AMEN

< Message edited by mrbob726 -- 6/7/2007 8:37:33 AM >

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Post #: 31

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 8:39:54 AM

slaverosebeauty

Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
So, what is it for you would you say? And is there anyone else here whose expertise in a certain field you regard as worthwhile listening to?

Plenty of people a few people I actually LOOK for their posts on various boards, because I am always interested in what they have to share, I learn as much from the boards as I do from books and from other research. Also, my debating techniques have improved dramatically since being on these boards. I look on a variety of boards an I am always amazed at what people know, to pick out a few people, it would not be fair, yes I do have a few people I look for.

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Post #: 32

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 8:45:48 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrbob726

I checked a couple of things on my profile as "expert". I did so only because there was no choice of "very good at". Then, I think it's pretty hard to set up a system like this that can account for all the various levels of competancy.

My rule of thumb for clicking "expert" is if I feel I know enough about it to teach it and teach it WELL. This means imparting excellent knowledge content, including safety, as well as being able to couch someone along by doing it with them. If I can't teach it though knowledge AND example, I merely "know a lot" or "enjoy it" but am not qualified to be an expert. My opinion, though.

Master Fire

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The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to mrbob726)

Post #: 33

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 9:03:13 AM

mrbob726

Posts: 155
Joined: 4/15/2007
From: Illinois
Status: offline

quote:

My rule of thumb for clicking "expert" is if I feel I know enough about it to teach it and teach it WELL.

I agree with that approach, and your definition of Expert. On the other hand, no matter how good I may be at something, there is always someone who I'm sure knows more about the subject than I do, therefore to call myself an "expert" is a presumption.

< Message edited by mrbob726 -- 6/7/2007 9:05:58 AM >

_____________________________

"Love many, Trust few, Harm none" (Yau Man, Survivor Fiji)

"If builders built buildings the way some programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization."

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 34

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 9:13:14 AM

CitizenCane

Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
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Claiming expertise on the internet is pointless. I rarely even refer to my personal experiences, as these cannot be verified by anyone else. In some areas, people mention ideas or techniques that are on the edge of my experience, and I may examine for myself how they might or might not be applied by me, but I would never 'rely on their expertise'. In other areas people discuss ideas in which the only expertise needed is self-evident- clear thinking and clear expression. Even in this context, however, I recognize that people are usually only able to communicate effectively with each other when their respective backgrounds in relevant areas are reasonably close. People with great insight into a particular issue are often completely misunderstood by others who lack the frame of reference to grasp what is being said.

(in reply to mrbob726)

Post #: 35

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 9:43:29 AM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

Edited to add:

There are some people who I read with a great deal of respect, LA being one of them, bitatrouble being another, there are all sorts here who I think often provide excellent and thought provoking comments. I am horrible with names and so I can't post them but my hat is off to those who I am thinking of!

I think that someone with real experience can recognize someone else with real experience, especially if that experience parallels one's own. I don't come here for other's expertise on subject X, I come here for the often deeply open and vulnerable sharing of people's personal experiences which I find highly valuable and educational.

Plus, "expert" is such a fluid concept, expert at some aspect of physical play in some small state and expert in SF, LA, or NY are often two vastly different concepts.

Military firearms are something that I know well enough to sit down and point out errors in most reference books, I can ID things I have never seen before, dissasemble weapons I have never held before, yet I don't consider myself an expert on that level. As far as most people are concerned I would be an expert on the subject.

Woodworking I am a hack as far as I am concerned but I teach classes on using lathes, making gunstocks, building furniture, finishing, etc. I build beautiful stuff but I know what really takes skill as well as people who have it and I don't yet.

I would love to write a book on relationships and if I make this one work as beautifully as I think it is going to be, I will have to write one but I figure till I am in a perfect relationship it is a bit premature to write on the subject. Doesn't stop a lot of the current batch of S&M authors though!

< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 6/7/2007 9:46:01 AM >

(in reply to CitizenCane)

Post #: 36

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 10:05:18 AM

Guilty1974

Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline

My primary thing is rope bondage. I'm fairly good at it, in my own humble opinion. My girlfriend and I have a nice website to show off what we can, and we teach workshops on occasion. but I wouldn't claim I'm an expert. I think you never really become an expert or master in rope bondage. There's simply students and more advanced students.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 37

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 10:07:29 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mrbob726

quote:

My rule of thumb for clicking "expert" is if I feel I know enough about it to teach it and teach it WELL.

I agree with that approach, and your definition of Expert. On the other hand, no matter how good I may be at something, there is always someone who I'm sure knows more about the subject than I do, therefore to call myself an "expert" is a presumption.

I disagree. There is a difference between expert and perfection. Expert speaks of a level of skill. Perfection doesn't exist. Stop being so hard on yourself and embrace what you know you know...but still stive to learn what you don't. And don't be surprised or crushed when you run into something you don't know you don't know. It will eventually happen.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to mrbob726)

Post #: 38

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 10:24:15 AM

Politesub53

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When i look at a thread, i read everything on it. If i see a name that always posts on a certain topic i admit to paying them closer attention. i wont discount anyones viewpoint, there will always be that one time when someone you least expect it from says something profound or helpful.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 39

RE: expertise - who is worth listening to? - 6/7/2007 10:24:55 AM

vield

Posts: 354
Joined: 1/1/2004
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A lot of people are worth listening to, because that is a good way to learn.

As long as you take their information in as data, not as :the True Path, you will get information from anyone you share thoughts with.

Naturally the task of validating this data is a task for someone you trust.

I learn from everyone with whom I have honest interactions.

Best wishes!

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As always, your mileage may vary!

vield

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Post #: 40

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