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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 9:17:01 AM   
domiguy


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Status: offline 		Why don't you two kids go get a room.

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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 9:18:46 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Why don't you two kids go get a room.


Because Conservatives are a hard limit Domi, not to mention that my Daddy does not share

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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 9:22:32 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
There ya go...

A classic example of "Blame America First!"

BTW... as far as Pat Tillman and Jessica Lynch goes...

From Viet Nam past to the Civil War, in wars that were covered as media evends and people read daily, then read and listened and finally watched  accounts of each action, where heroes recieved medals and citations for their glorious death at the hands of the enemy or for their heroic deeds in action on the field there have been Pat Tillmans and Jessica Lynchs, scores and scores except for one thing...

Nobody ever found out, or if they did, it was never reveled and covered up.

So I am a little tired of the left's "appalled" reaction to them now. 

I am sure julia you would support of every medal and citation for the last 150 years to weed out the ones that don't belong.


I don't think it's so much a case of "Blame America First" as it is "Quick, change the subject" on julia's part.

Though blaming America first seems to be the preferred subject for julia, I don't think that's the main reason she throws such clownishly ridiculous ideas out there. I think that the main reason she does that is to redirect topics away from facts that hurt her side as badly as the OP does. It's pure desperation on her part, and nothing more.

Our discussing the possibility that Americans are fighting a worthy battle in Iraq just horrifies her, in my opinion. Her, and everyone like her.

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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 9:24:45 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Actually I brought up the other examples to back up my opinion that the military is not exactly credible and what they report to the media should be viewed with a jaundiced eye since we have no other source of information on the topic.

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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 9:32:42 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Actually I brought up the other examples to back up my opinion that the military is not exactly credible and what they report to the media should be viewed with a jaundiced eye since we have no other source of information on the topic.


Right

The very idea that you had to change the subject from,"Our boys stopped al-Qaeda from destroying a girls' school in Iraq" to your version, which is that "Our boys were trying to blow up a girls' school in Iraq just to try to make al-Qaeda look bad" tells me everything that I ever need to know about you, julia

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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 9:37:49 AM   
juliaoceania


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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I did not know that I was supposed to comment on this story in some preapproved way to be politically correct. I have my view, you have yours. I am very accustomed to being flamed for my views. I am not going to flame in return, although I will note something, you have not addressed why this story should be believed based upon the source of it.


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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 9:44:25 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I did not know that I was supposed to comment on this story in some preapproved way to be politically correct. I have my view, you have yours. I am very accustomed to being flamed for my views. I am not going to flame in return, although I will note something, you have not addressed why this story should be believed based upon the source of it.



Always the poor, innocent little victim, aren't you... I suppose that I should be ashamed of myself now

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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 9:47:21 AM   
domiguy


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Status: offline 		All the story actually proves is that somebody placed a bomb in a girls school...If it was done by Sunnis or Shias this hardly supports our reason for fighting this war or staying in their war torn country.

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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 9:48:12 AM   
pollux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

The reason I didn't address it is because it's a fallacy.  Specifically it's a fallacy called "poisoning the well".  It's not something you can debate.  It's a subjective opinion, which you're entitled to, but it isn't debatable because it isn't logical.

Suppose I say to you, "I don't believe in the theory of evolution."

You ask, "Why?"


In a courtroom when a person is on trial and the defense attorney presents evidence that shows that a cop has perjured himself in criminal cases before, planted evidence, and such, this can be shown as evidence to support a contention that this source of information is indeed compromised and should not be believed.


I'd be interested to know your source for that information.  A cop who plants evidence and perjures himself in a courtroom is not going to remain a cop very long.

Btw, just because something happens in, or is admissible in, a courtroom doesn't make it logical (O.J. trial anybody?).  Regardless of whether it would be admissible in a courtroom, your argument is still based on faulty reasoning.  It's based on subjectivity and emotion.

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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 10:11:02 AM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlindUnknown

Eh, what are you going to do?  The Qur'an tells us women are inferior to men, and i quote:

Tabari I:280 "Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."

or this little gem...

Bukhari:V3 B48 N826 "The Prophet said, ‘Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?' The women said, ‘Yes.' He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind.'"  

...lovely religion... >.>  No wonder they don't care about a girls' school.

Wonder how long 'til that "gender equality clause" in the Iraqi constitution disappears.


This is awful....It is sooooo fucking wrong...I can't believe that anyone would follow any book or person that would suggest that women are in way less than a man....Women should be respected and their voice and opinions should be given the same weight of that of any man.....Oh Fuck!!! I forgot I was on a BDSM website!!!  (Domiguy doing his best "cowardly lion" immitation falls to his knees and pleads to the heavens)  "I do believe in the Quran ......I do believe in the Quran...I do!...I do!! ...I do!!!....I do!!!!"

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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 1:40:09 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Actually I brought up the other examples to back up my opinion that the military is not exactly credible and what they report to the media should be viewed with a jaundiced eye since we have no other source of information on the topic.


Right

The very idea that you had to change the subject from,"Our boys stopped al-Qaeda from destroying a girls' school in Iraq" to your version, which is that "Our boys were trying to blow up a girls' school in Iraq just to try to make al-Qaeda look bad" tells me everything that I ever need to know about you, julia


It is probably wise to note that the article said this:

quote:

The military suspects the plot was the work of al Qaeda, because of its nature and sophistication, <snipped>


This would be the initial release of information.  If journalists have any doubts, or if they think it serves the public to further investigate, they might be well served to ask additional questions, such as who was intended to go to this school.  Isn't that what journalism is supposed to be about?  So let them ask the questions.  
I do not feel that this is a deliberate ploy by American military, but Julia obviously feels that this is likely to be a set-up.  Interestingly, I was looking for such a reply, not necessarily from Julia, but because I know that this is the preferred attitude of several posters.  
 
And no, Julia, I am not following you around. 

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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 1:56:20 PM   
BlindUnknown


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Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		*surprised that his comment didn't cause as much a stir as the one "i dont trust the media" one*

On the subject of "it may have been Al-Qaeda", i believe the reasoning there is that this was something that required a lot of money, and bribery to pull off.  the list of terrorist groups with resources to spare on something that will only piss most people off is probably Al-Qaeda, or the multitude of Shi'ite groups funded by Iran.

Considering this is one of the Iraqi projects that THEY were going to be responsible for....Halliburton doesn't seem so bad right about now, honestly.  And that is saying something.

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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 3:29:34 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
I am just as appalled by people who consider themselves to be on the right that will gladly be willing to sacrifice their own ethics or even "the truth"  if it benefits "their" party or any notion that they feel is to be correct.


Well, If I recall correctly WWI and II,  the Korea and most of Veit Nam war were run by "left" administrations. I do not recall their party being all that open do you?
Afterall the greatest serial killer in the history of the United States was Robert MacNamara, who for some ubkown reason is seen as and American icon of the left. 

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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 3:33:48 PM   
Rumtiger


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Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
Status: offline 		Personally, as the OP I just posted this because no matter my personal views on the war, I simply think some people need to die, case in point, bastards who want to blow up a bunch of kids.

I think no matter what side we're on in the debate, we can at least agree that wanting to blow up little girls = fuck em, kill da fucks...right?

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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 3:38:56 PM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		You are going way off the topic of this thread and making sweeping generalization again, without sources to back you up.
A serial killer and a former Secretary of Defense are two very different types of individuals.
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
Afterall the greatest serial killer in the history of the United States was Robert MacNamara, who for some ubkown reason is seen as and American icon of the left. 


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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 3:50:57 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

You are going way off the topic of this thread and making sweeping generalization again, without sources to back you up.
A serial killer and a former Secretary of Defense are two very different types of individuals.
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
Afterall the greatest serial killer in the history of the United States was Robert MacNamara, who for some ubkown reason is seen as and American icon of the left. 



No, I am sorry but I am not.

Robert MacNamara  not only allowed but designed a war plan that led to the wholesale slaughter of American servicemen on a scale so henious that he should be spoke of in terms of treason.

The left always trots out Bush, Chaney and Rumsfeld for so called "War" crimes and ":Lies".... Sound a little hollow given what went befor them.

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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 5:11:24 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		You are missing the point here.  The issue I am raising is not about Left and Right. 
It is about comparing a former Secretary of Defense with a criminal psychopath, namely, a serial killer.
 
Politicians rarely have to get close to the battlefield and the mutilated bodies and corpses. 
A serial killer frequently prefers to be in the middle of the killing and dismemberment and defilement.
 
Edited to add -
 
And lest you jump to conclusion again, no, I am not defending neither McNamara nor his polices nor his war strategy.
 
 

 
 

< Message edited by Vendaval -- 5/6/2007 5:14:01 PM >

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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 5:11:57 PM   
juliaoceania


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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

The reason I didn't address it is because it's a fallacy.  Specifically it's a fallacy called "poisoning the well".  It's not something you can debate.  It's a subjective opinion, which you're entitled to, but it isn't debatable because it isn't logical.

Suppose I say to you, "I don't believe in the theory of evolution."

You ask, "Why?"


In a courtroom when a person is on trial and the defense attorney presents evidence that shows that a cop has perjured himself in criminal cases before, planted evidence, and such, this can be shown as evidence to support a contention that this source of information is indeed compromised and should not be believed.

I'd be interested to know your source for that information.  A cop who plants evidence and perjures himself in a courtroom is not going to remain a cop very long.


Btw, just because something happens in, or is admissible in, a courtroom doesn't make it logical (O.J. trial anybody?).  Regardless of whether it would be admissible in a courtroom, your argument is still based on faulty reasoning.  It's based on subjectivity and emotion.



That is just your opinion, and your opinion is valid to you. I do not agree with your opinion, and I still stand behind the point if you find someone to be a liar some of the time, you cannot trust them.. Now I do not know if you trust liars, because you did not state that you do, but you seem to think it illogical that I do not. I just happen to see the world a little differently


About courts, lets say just a regular person lies on the stand, a judge will admonish the jury to disregard their testimony, since you did not like the cop analogy, I think you might understand a more simplistic version of it

Namaste


edited to add, the quote thingy is not working right

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 5/6/2007 5:16:00 PM >

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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 5:18:32 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Robert MacNamara, who for some ubkown reason is seen as and American icon of the left. 


I've read a fair amount of leftish material over the years, and I've never seen McNamara hailed as an "icon."

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RE: Girls school found rigged in Iraq - 5/6/2007 5:19:49 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Robert MacNamara, who for some ubkown reason is seen as and American icon of the left. 


I've read a fair amount of leftish material over the years, and I've never seen McNamara hailed as an "icon."


Neither have I

I would like to see the source of hailing him a liberal hero

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 40
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