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Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 2:20:07 PM   
marylynn


Posts: 84
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline 		This was given to me by a dear friend and a very strict Dominant. I adore him to no end, and therefore will not disclose his name due to respect issues.

He gave this to me today after asking a question about training, etc. He has been in the "lifestyle" (he doesn't like that word for a multitude of reasons, but he used it to show significance).. for 10+ years. Anyway -
-------------------------------------------
To be a good Dom or Domme you have to first learn to be a good sub. Yes you can teach someone to submit, to be submissive and yes you can teach someone to be a Dom or Domme, BUT the student has to have one very important thing, desire to learn ok maybe two things, desire to become. Submission is about trust, you have to trust One enough to want to submit your will, mind, body and soul to theirs. Submission is the real power in a BDSM relationship. A good sub is hard to find, good ones want to please, need to please, crave it, hunger for it, they feel complete only when they have One to serve willingly. Why does a sub have the power? At any time the sub can choose to say the safe word, there is usually two safe words, agreed upon before hand, one is the yellow flag, it means WOAH you are starting to hurt me, or getting into places I don't want to go so BACK OFF! A good Dome/Domme will adhere to that warning and back off, bad ones do not and they get the second safe word, the Red Flag and it means just that STOP I'M DONE! More often than not when a second safe word is used the relationship is ended as well because it means you have a sadistic Dom/Domme who likes to hurt and cause real pain. Every sub has a limit.

To be a good sub means you know what it takes to serve, to please another. It means you also know there is pain, there is pleasure and often the two are divided by a very fine line. You learn that there are those who feel pain is pleasure and they will tolerate more than others. I can't remember whose room it was in, but one of the submissives here had this in her room:

The Submissives Creed
I will communicate with complete honesty my needs, desires, limits, and experience.
I realize that failing to do so will not only prevent my Master and I from having the best experience possible, but can also lead to physical and emotional harm.
I will not try to manipulate my Master.
I will not push to make a scene go the way I feel it should.
I will keep an open mind about trying things that I am not accustomed to or comfortable with and expanding my limits
I will continue to grow as a submissive and as a human being.
I will accept the responsibility of discovering what pleases my Master, and will do my best to fulfill His wishes and desires.
I will not allow myself to be harmed or abused, I know that submissive does not equal "doormat".
I will be courteous and helpful to my fellow submissives, I will share my knowledge and experiences with others in the hope that they will learn from where I have been I will take the time to help those new to the scene start out on the correct path.
I will be responsive to my Master, I will not try to hide what my mind and body are feeling so that I may assist Him in His responsibilities as my Authority, I know that Dominants are not telepathists, and will not expect my Master to know thought or feelings which I do not share.
I will never think myself a "better" submissive because I choose to submit on a different level than another.
I will not be boastful of experiences I have had as a sub.
I know that my actions reflect upon my Master, and will do my best to help others see him in a positive way.
I will not intentionally embarrass or displease my Master.
Above all, I will wear my title of submissive with honor.
I will never cause others to think that being submissive means to be weak or sub~human.
I will take pride in who and what I am, and will never show myself in a negative way.

It is about power, the Master has the power to please the sub, power to make them beg for what they want, power to control, power to dominate, but without a good submissive a Master is nothing. So the sub really controls the direction and intensity of the relationship.

Trust is key, honesty as well. Without those, you can wind up having a bad experience all the way around. I dunno if that helps you any, or if it helps answers your question any. There are so many answers, and so many opinions, but no matter, when you are just beginning you want a patient Master who is willing to explore with you because it is a journey of finding self.
---------------------------------------
sits on thread, watching the discussion commence
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 2:43:52 PM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		first - Daddy was never a submissive to understand the depth and meaning of His title. He had no reason either.

second -
quote:

To be a good sub means you know what it takes to serve, to please another. It means you also know there is pain, there is pleasure and often the two are divided by a very fine line.
i shall have to disagree with this statement. being a good sub mean entirely different with Daddy. He doesn't need to use pain and/or brute force - our relationship is a loving and caring one.

The Submissives Creed - don't need it.  i do think i'm a "better" submissive because Daddy wishes it, i can make boastful statements about my experiences since i'm happy in my relationship with Him, i don't need to do anything to put Daddy in a good light for others unless commanded and i haven't yet embarassed Him with my opinionated statements here. the rest is pointless.

the only point of this post that i do agree
quote:

Trust is key
.

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...


...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to marylynn)
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RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 3:06:18 PM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline 		marylynn Thankyou for the lovely post. i like what the submissive creed had to say. i am not near perfect and thought provoking posts like this are a nice tool to have. i am growing and learning from many of the nice people on here....thanks again. maybe i will get to the point that i dont need others input but i'm not there yet.....

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)
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RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 3:34:25 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marylynn

It is about power, the Master has the power to please the sub, power to make them beg for what they want, power to control, power to dominate, but without a good submissive a Master is nothing. So the sub really controls the direction and intensity of the relationship.


I believe that dominant and submissive, master and slave, owner and kitten, etc, are equals. Like man and woman, things are equal. Merely different roles in the relationship. As the quote says, "Without my dominance, you can not submit. Without your submission I can not dominate."

I do not feel that I have more control in where our relationship is going. If that were true, things would be different. I feel that we are equal in the control of where our relationship goes and that is what makes us both happy in the long run.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to marylynn)
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RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 3:43:46 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		 
Hello A/all,

I suppose I have a different idea about this, or perhaps I just have issues with the idea that a Dominant and a submissive are equal.  I am not sure I consider my relationship equal, although I have a great respect for my partner.

I view it the way the Tao symbol describes a dichotomy.  You have the Yin side, and the Yang side, and the eye of each is the essence of the other side.  Are these equal?  No.  They are complementary.

I dont want to be equal to my partner.  I dont want my partner to be equal to me.  I want us to be a team where both sides bring to the equation what is needed to make the equation work.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 4:54:28 PM   
myobedience


Posts: 472
Joined: 1/28/2007
Status: offline 		I loved the post altho I dont agree with some stuff.....

I dont believe I have all the power and control....  as Sir says.... a coin has different sides.  His (D) and mine (s).  When I am doing as He wishes and when I am doing as I wish (pleasing him) ....he is in control and I am obedient to him.   The coin has equal sides for without one side there is no other side.
 
I do know before he found me, we each were who we are...him a Dom and me a sub, but we were not sharing the same coin.  We choose to share the power/authority/control dynamic.  So in semantic useage... I dont really care to squabble.  Not for us anyway... others can sematically squabble.

I'd like to know if he gave you a Dom's creed?  Why shouldnt there be one of them as well? 

www.submissiveloving.com has both.  But before I take to a creed written on a website.... I WILL take to heart what we exchange in our own communication as to who I am and who he is to U/us.
Hope that makes sense.
 
Very nice marylynn, I see why you respect and trust him.
  



_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you is the only Man truly worthy of being called Master.

(in reply to marylynn)
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RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 5:00:20 PM   
myobedience


Posts: 472
Joined: 1/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I dont want to be equal to my partner.  I dont want my partner to be equal to me.  I want us to be a team where both sides bring to the equation what is needed to make the equation work.

Sinergy


Take ANY mathematical equation, or take a judicial balance......
Ab = Ba ....  enough salt can = enough enough lime.............
either way, a balance in equality stands.

_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you is the only Man truly worthy of being called Master.

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 5:07:31 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: myobedience

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I dont want to be equal to my partner.  I dont want my partner to be equal to me.  I want us to be a team where both sides bring to the equation what is needed to make the equation work.

Sinergy


Take ANY mathematical equation, or take a judicial balance......
Ab = Ba ....  enough salt can = enough enough lime.............
either way, a balance in equality stands.


All except those pesky mathematical equations that are used to illustrate inequalities.  x < y or x > y

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to myobedience)
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RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 5:10:14 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Everyone has the power.  Everyone needs to work together to make the relationship fulfilling.  ONE person denying the relationship, master or slave, means the entire relationship ends.

One person has the authority.

And you shouldn't post that without permission.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 5:40:39 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I don't subscribe to a lot of what is written, but it may well apply to some D/s relationships.

My Master has the power, authority and control in our relationship;
I am sometimes a doormat to him, and grateful to be so;
I do not have safewords;
My Master was never, nor will ever be a submissive (and oh he understands my mind quite well!);
My "creed" is basically "I will obey my Master."  His rules fall under that.  Several of them are in the creed you posted, though.

I very much liked what Sinergy said about the yin and yang.  That is something my Master and I have talked about before.  We are not equals, but we compliment each other.

And kyra, your post made me laugh out loud.  But you forgot ≠, ≤, and ≥

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 4/22/2007 5:41:06 PM >

(in reply to marylynn)
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RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 5:43:12 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		The thing about this essay is that a lot of people's relationships arent structured like a play scene would be with negotitions and safewords. The essay is taking the philosophy that D/S relationships work the same way as play does. Its also suggesting that D/S relationships are based on scenes and play as well and that is often far from the case.

As far as my own viewpoints, I agree with both what LA and Sinergy said.

The only inequality is in the authority and in that, its complimentary like yin and yang.






< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 4/22/2007 5:45:51 PM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to marylynn)
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RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 6:52:42 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		If a good dom should start out as a sub, then should a good sub start out as a dom? After all, if it's that important to understand viscerally the other side...

Besides I don't think when people say this that they are talking about submitting. They're talking about bottoming and learning to top safely.

The Man has zero submissive tendencies. I have zero domme. An attempt for us to try on the opposite roles would only lead to aggrevation and laughter. "Oh I'm sorry, tell me I didn't hurt you, I didn't mean to do it", and I know this is what I'd say.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 7:18:42 PM   
marylynn


Posts: 84
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline 		But don't you think that "yin and yang" are equal?
Complimentary, yes - they COMPLIMENT each other - therefore, they EQUAL one another
you can't have one without the other
there is no bad without good
there's no god without the devil.

It equals the equation.

I'm not saying (nor is my friend saying) that the relationship is equal - I just think it was meant to mean that the roles should equal out.

Or maybe I'm not the one making sense.

(in reply to Celeste43)
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RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 7:37:46 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Here is another perspective.

Power isn't 'yin/yang' and it isn't the function of a zero sum equation. Regardless of the number of people involved, because it should be obvious that as far as this community is concerned '2' isn't the universal common denominator, there is another and ultimate 'power'. It is the relationship itself.

In a macro observation point, both the Master and submissive serve or relinquish power to this ultimate powerful entity. The reason is has so much power is that without it the individuals making up the components have nothing. A submissive serving nobody has no power to relinquish. A Master/Dom has no power without a slave/submissive. What is being discussed as the relinquishment and assumption of "power" is, on closer inspection, is in reality the assumption and submission of decision authority. The length and scope of that decision authority is defined within the relationship. Clearly the relationship has the "power".

A relationship can include a submissive making decisions that in another relationship would indicate submissive "power". In others even basic bodily functions are under decisional control of the Master. The spectrum runs the gamut, but in all cases were talking about surrendering or being responsible for decisions not power. 

(in reply to marylynn)
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RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 7:42:13 PM   
marylynn


Posts: 84
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline 		All the views here are excellent - I have enjoyed every one of your responses and everyone on the thread has definately given me something to think about and to consider.

Thank you all, for responding and giving your opinions ~smilin', slipping  out for bed~

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 7:53:53 PM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline 		Well said Sinergy, i agree with this as well...however i do believe the real power lies with the submissive but even as i recognize this, i am humbled by it~

edited to add: Yin and yang consume and support each other.

Yin and yang are usually held in balance: as one increases, the other decreases. They are not equals as one is feminine  and the other masculine, one dark and the other light, etc ...they "compliment" and reflect each other. It is "western" influence that tries to make them equals but even a simple search online brings up valuable information on the Taijitu and in my opinion it is the perfect description of a D/s-M/s relationship~

< Message edited by dawntreader -- 4/22/2007 8:08:49 PM >

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
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(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 8:40:25 PM   
Asraii


Posts: 91
Status: offline
quote:

It is about power, the Master has the power to please the sub, power to make them beg for what they want, power to control, power to dominate, but without a good submissive a Master is nothing. So the sub really controls the direction and intensity of the relationship.

I disagree with this. It takes two people who are compatible with each other to make any relationship work ( or more than two in the cases of a poly relationship ). I also strongly disagree that it takes a 'good' submissive. Define what 'good submissive' is in this instance.
 
I also do NOT believe that the submissive controls the direction and intensity of the relationship. When two people connect in the right way, both control the direction and intensity.

(in reply to marylynn)
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RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 9:35:00 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I have went through my life watching people form and carry on relationships. I have seen many divorces. I have seen people together that I just wondered "Why are they together?" because they were always bickering.

I think most relationships have at least a phase where power relationships are figured out between those in the relationship. In a good relationship, they find balance. In others, they remain constantly in a power struggle. I made up my mind a long time ago, I do not want to struggle for power, and I decided that I was comfortable surrendering it in my intimate relationship.

I do not want the power. I do not want to struggle. I want balance.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to marylynn)
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RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/22/2007 11:50:38 PM   
spankmepink11


Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline 		Not equal....but balanced....that works for me

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Power - who has it.. - 4/24/2007 5:05:07 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		The "Submissive's Creed" is a matter of personal philosophy and opinion.  Otherwise, and all due respect to your dominant friend's beliefs, there's not much else I'd agree with in his words.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marylynn

This was given to me by a dear friend and a very strict Dominant.
-------------------------------------------
To be a good Dom or Domme you have to first learn to be a good sub.

Does a man hafta read girlie mags, watch the soaps, wear dresses, hate sports etc to appreciate what it is to be a woman?  (apologies to the countless I've just offended with my shameless generalisations... lol)  Can't that man simply appreciate it's the differences and even opposites that attract and complement his own sexuality and needs? 
 
Because that's what I always appreciated about fem/subs - they are what I am not and fulfill my unique Dom needs, as I do for hers.

quote:

Submission is the real power in a BDSM relationship.

Absolute crock! 

Power is equal - anyone who has something you desire has power over you.  I desire a fem/sub's qualities, therefore, she does have power over me.  But those who advocate this as an absolute always ignore the other half of the equation.  Fem/subs desire my Dom qualities, therefore, I have power over her, too!  *EQUAL*
 
She can leave me anytime, just as I can do to her!  *EQUAL*
 
D/s is a relationship based on a control dynamic.  Individual "power" is equal, control is NOT.
 
While a sub can use her safeword anytime in *theory*, my experience is that they'd generally rather cut an arm off first.  And once a relationship has established, which generally implies advanced levels of trust, the safeword is usually consigned to the Recycle Bin anyway....  A sub abusing her safeword has control = the D/s relationship is failing and both are probably miserable.
 
Sorry, but years in the lifestyle doesn't equate to hands on experience!  Most of his words read like inexperienced theory designed to impress newbies with his alleged "knowledge" and sense of justice!
 
Focus.

(in reply to marylynn)
Profile   Post #: 20
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