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RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/21/2007 11:37:26 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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Glide, in the 1920's too much money was concentrated in too few hands.
That was one of the major causes of the great depression.
Also, if an "American" company moves overseas should they still expect access to our market?
They're very obviously taking advantage of the situation.
If they want to make stuff overseas fine, then let them sell it overseas.
They were saying that NAFTA would be great for the Mexican people too.
Boy, what a lie that was.
They were fucking LYING through their teeth!
(Edited for spelling, I can't type for shit today!)

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 4/21/2007 11:41:41 AM >

(in reply to ElectraGlide)

Post #: 21

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/21/2007 2:12:07 PM

ElectraGlide

Posts: 1246
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Maryland
Status: offline

Popeye I agree with you on NAFTA being a bad deal. A news report a while back said U.S. companies sending their jobs to Mexico are not benefiting that much because they only get cheap labor, the shipping cost and the tax duty ends up being more than they thought they would spend when they originaly planned it. The U.S. can not rock Mexicos boat too hard because they can up the cost of shipping, fees etc.

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(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 22

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/21/2007 2:28:59 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

true-many live on plastic. i got in trouble at a store for opening a case of floor tile- and not buying it. the clerk layed into me. i said that stuff is too thin.

corporations always look at this qurters money - not 5 year long term.

in fuedal dayyys serfs paid to the lord- so it goes today. the lords being the wealthy 1%.

iiit is slavery- in disquize.

greed run amuck- by many.

consumption.

considering what we could be as a society- we are way off. we could have sustainaable- high quality of life- th tech is here now.

---i read a book written by a homless guy- for a few yrs. it was quite good.

basically we are heading for a devaluation of the dollar. period.

(in reply to ElectraGlide)

Post #: 23

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/21/2007 4:12:40 PM

Griswold

Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000

By MARTIN CRUTSINGER, AP Economics WriterFri Apr 20, 3:02 PM ET

Three weeks ago, Dawn Zimmer became a statistic. Laid off from her job assembling trucks at Freightliner's plant in Portland, Ore., she and 800 of her colleagues joined a long line of U.S. manufacturing workers who have lost jobs in recent years. A total of 3.2 million — one in six factory jobs — have disappeared since the start of 2000.
Many people believe those jobs will never come back.

"They are building a multimillion-dollar plant in Mexico and they are going to build the Freightliners down there. They came in and videotaped us at work so they could train the Mexican workers," said Zimmer, 55, who had worked at Freightliner since 1994.

That's the issue for American workers. Many of their jobs are moving overseas, to Mexico and China and elsewhere.

Just ask Tom Riegel.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070420/ap_on_bi_ge/changing_work_force

A valid comment (and one I'll anticipate some {more than} lively exchange on).

US buyers, buy products. All true in any market.

A logical assumption.

We have to buy...we need to eat...barbeque...etc.

No one buys products that we can't afford.

At minimum...we buy products that meet our current...and financial needs.

It's this simple: If we wanted to buy products...at prices that American manufacturers could afford to make....American manufacturers would continue to make them.....

IN AMERICA!!!!!!!!! (But they don't).

(Stop buying products that are made by folks that aren't making them IN FUHREAKIN AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

(That might tip the fucking equation).

It's a concept.

(Just a thought).

< Message edited by Griswold -- 4/21/2007 4:16:03 PM >

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 24

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/21/2007 5:18:46 PM

TexasMaam

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Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline

I believe it was Ross Perot who warned us that we'd here a giant sucking sound as all of our US jobs went overseas. TM

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Post #: 25

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/21/2007 5:30:12 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

While everyone always claims that today is the end of the world, the sun always rises in the morning anyway.

Maybe NAFTA isn't so bad after all. Wealthier Mexicans may mean a bigger market and more riches for everyone in the long run. The same goes for Wealthier Chinese, so long as they don't decide to go to war against us. Wealthier Indians, wealthier Vietnamese... it might not hurt to help lift the worlds' boats a little. Why keep the entire world poor? It may hurt a little in the short term, but in the big picture, who knows. It could be very, very good.

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 26

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/21/2007 5:36:21 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

This doesn't happen often, but I'm going to second what Sanity says. Creating prosperity in other countries is also, if we're savvy, a way of creating markets for our goods and services.

One other point that I don't think anyone's mentioned is that free trade lowers the prices of many goods. That raises the living standard of all Americans, whereas protectionism benefits only small groups at everyone else's expense.

I admit: I spend too much time hanging out with economists!

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 4/21/2007 5:37:10 PM >

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 27

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/21/2007 5:39:32 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Early in the morning factory whistle blows,
Man rises from bed and puts on his clothes,
Man takes his lunch, walks out in the morning light,
It's the working, the working, just the working life.

Through the mansions of fear, through the mansions of pain,
I see my daddy walking through them factory gates in the rain,
Factory takes his hearing, factory gives him life,
The working, the working, just the working life.

End of the day, factory whistle cries,
Men walk through these gates with death in their eyes.
And you just better believe, boy,
somebody's gonna get hurt tonight,
It's the working, the working, just the working life.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 28

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/21/2007 5:47:59 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

Something else to keep in mind is that making Mexico more prosperous is probably the single most effective way to keep Mexicans from coming here illegally.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 29

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/21/2007 9:00:11 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

While everyone always claims that today is the end of the world, the sun always rises in the morning anyway.

Maybe NAFTA isn't so bad after all. Wealthier Mexicans may mean a bigger market and more riches for everyone in the long run. The same goes for Wealthier Chinese, so long as they don't decide to go to war against us. Wealthier Indians, wealthier Vietnamese... it might not hurt to help lift the worlds' boats a little. Why keep the entire world poor? It may hurt a little in the short term, but in the big picture, who knows. It could be very, very good.

Sanity,

NAFTA is raping Mexico by forcing the Mexicans to pay less for food produced in the United States, but at the same time taking away their farming jobs because food can be grown cheaper in the United States.

This does not create wealthy Mexicans.

Additionally, NAFTA is raping the United States by allowing Mexicans to work cheaper to do things like build cars, which takes away United States jobs people do.

This does not create wealthy Americans.

What it does is create wealthy multinational corporations who could give a rat's keister about you, Jose, or I.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 30

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/21/2007 9:44:25 PM

Griswold

Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Early in the morning factory whistle blows,
Man rises from bed and puts on his clothes,
Man takes his lunch, walks out in the morning light,
It's the working, the working, just the working life.

Through the mansions of fear, through the mansions of pain,
I see my daddy walking through them factory gates in the rain,
Factory takes his hearing, factory gives him life,
The working, the working, just the working life.

End of the day, factory whistle cries,
Men walk through these gates with death in their eyes.
And you just better believe, boy,
somebody's gonna get hurt tonight,
It's the working, the working, just the working life.

(That rhymes).

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 31

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/21/2007 10:17:01 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

While everyone always claims that today is the end of the world, the sun always rises in the morning anyway.

Maybe NAFTA isn't so bad after all. Wealthier Mexicans may mean a bigger market and more riches for everyone in the long run. The same goes for Wealthier Chinese, so long as they don't decide to go to war against us. Wealthier Indians, wealthier Vietnamese... it might not hurt to help lift the worlds' boats a little. Why keep the entire world poor? It may hurt a little in the short term, but in the big picture, who knows. It could be very, very good.

Sanity, $5-$7 per day in those Maqiadoras(?) the American factories in Mexico along the Mexican border, do not make for wealthier Mexicans.
Sinergy nailed it.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 32

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/21/2007 10:25:20 PM

minnetar

Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

While everyone always claims that today is the end of the world, the sun always rises in the morning anyway.

Maybe NAFTA isn't so bad after all. Wealthier Mexicans may mean a bigger market and more riches for everyone in the long run. The same goes for Wealthier Chinese, so long as they don't decide to go to war against us. Wealthier Indians, wealthier Vietnamese... it might not hurt to help lift the worlds' boats a little. Why keep the entire world poor? It may hurt a little in the short term, but in the big picture, who knows. It could be very, very good.

Sanity,

NAFTA is raping Mexico by forcing the Mexicans to pay less for food produced in the United States, but at the same time taking away their farming jobs because food can be grown cheaper in the United States.

This does not create wealthy Mexicans.

Additionally, NAFTA is raping the United States by allowing Mexicans to work cheaper to do things like build cars, which takes away United States jobs people do.

This does not create wealthy Americans.

What it does is create wealthy multinational corporations who could give a rat's keister about you, Jose, or I.

Sinergy

Food can be grown cheaper in the USA is Your quote. Where did you get the statistics and is it because they are using Mexican workers?

minnetar

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 33

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/21/2007 10:47:49 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Sanity, $5-$7 per day in those Maqiadoras(?) the American factories in Mexico along the Mexican border, do not make for wealthier Mexicans.

I know that sounds like a pittance to us, but it may well be more than they were making previously.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 34

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/22/2007 12:00:42 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

While everyone always claims that today is the end of the world, the sun always rises in the morning anyway.

Maybe NAFTA isn't so bad after all. Wealthier Mexicans may mean a bigger market and more riches for everyone in the long run. The same goes for Wealthier Chinese, so long as they don't decide to go to war against us. Wealthier Indians, wealthier Vietnamese... it might not hurt to help lift the worlds' boats a little. Why keep the entire world poor? It may hurt a little in the short term, but in the big picture, who knows. It could be very, very good.

Sanity,

NAFTA is raping Mexico by forcing the Mexicans to pay less for food produced in the United States, but at the same time taking away their farming jobs because food can be grown cheaper in the United States.

Like the EU, the USA heavily subsidizes its agricultural industry and it is this subsidiy that causes the problems for poorer countries because the US and EU dumps agricultural produce on the poor and destroys local farming. In this case the US dumping produce in Mexico. The solution is to ban subsidies through the WTO and treat farming like any other business but the USA and EU have real problems with this.

Sanity is right, if there is a single market everyone will theoretically better off. At the moment there is a psychology in the rich world that seems to think, if the poor get richer, the rich will get poorer and that is an emotional reaction and not a rational one. Many rich countries in the EU have similar arguments against letting poor countries into the EU. There are concerns have all been unfounded in the long term but it still persists with every new poor country entering the EU. What happens is what Sanity suggests (and I can't believe I'm agreeing with him), everyone gains all round.

The fly in the ointment, is that there just aren't enough resources to go round for this type of world economy. Continuous growth is not an option long term without something new and revolutionary on the horizon but what that is and when and if it arrives, who knows, I doubt our generation will.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 4/22/2007 12:01:56 AM >

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(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 35

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/22/2007 12:23:47 AM

ostrichman1951

Posts: 9
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline

The single most effective way to keep mexicant's from coming here illegally is to SECURE THE DAM BORDER! It's also the single most effective way to keep terrorists OUT. There's only ONE way ANYONE should be able to come and go from the US and that is through a legal port of entry .. PERIOD! .. and most especially since 911. Would you leave the windows to your house wide open after a burglary? Every American who suffers at the hands of an illegal should sue GW and the chain of command on down for wilfull neglegence in not enforcing the constitution and existing law. Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented migrant" is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"..and calling patriotic Americans who only want to see the law enforced "vigilantees" is nothing short of treason. Family values don't stop at the border, but SECURITY dam sure does! Start coming down heavy on the people and companies who hire them (aiding and abeiting: 8 USC 1324 another law not enforced from the disastrous 1986 amnesty) .. lower gas prices for us when 75% the 30 to 40 million here (not 12) self-deport and quit driving here because they can't get a "yob" .. more tax money back in YOUR pocket from education, welfare, health care, car insurance, more hospitals and emergency rooms back open maybe, and also save the lives of thousands of Americans killed, raped, molested, robbed at the hand of illegals. If "they" raised as much hell in their own country maybe they could make something of it..they need a 2nd amendment to counteract their drug-gang government..those are the only people getting "wealthier" in messyco..
And you're gonna just love the carnage on the highways when NAFTA starts letting 20,000 unsafe messican trucks on the road beginning in a few weeks.
Wanna save this country? Research the following and act accordingly: NAFTA, CAFTA, FTAA, SPP, NAU, NAIS, TTC .... have a nice day.

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 36

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/22/2007 5:19:52 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

none of the presidential candiadates are discussing voiding NAFTA.

im excited that Pennsylvania is passing comprehensive energy policy!!!!

it will be a model for other states!~

look out- 2010, total utility deregulation occurs. if u think utility bills are high now- wait till u see 2010.

not only that- the grid system is like running 200 amp on a 45 amp set up!!! it has been in severe disrpaaair the past 30 yrs.

(in reply to ostrichman1951)

Post #: 37

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/22/2007 12:38:07 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: minnetar

i would say by the companies trying to contain costs by getting cheaper labor but they don't realize the consequences of it.

minnetar

I think they did realize the consequences of it.

They knew outsourcing jobs to Mexico would trash the US economy. They knew dropping trade barriers with a largely third world country our corporations could make a killing undercutting their economy.

I dont think they care. Corporate profits are the ultimate goal.

Sinergy

Yes, and too bad the American sheeple continue to support such corporate greed by buying shares of stock in their companies.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 38

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/22/2007 12:51:48 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Glide, in the 1920's too much money was concentrated in too few hands.
That was one of the major causes of the great depression.
Also, if an "American" company moves overseas should they still expect access to our market?
They're very obviously taking advantage of the situation.
If they want to make stuff overseas fine, then let them sell it overseas.
They were saying that NAFTA would be great for the Mexican people too.
Boy, what a lie that was.
They were fucking LYING through their teeth!
(Edited for spelling, I can't type for shit today!)

There was only one reason for the Great Depression... a lack of cash in the monetary system. The Fed was well aware of this, but chose to do nothing about it.

Some people (myself included) believe the reason why they failed to provide the easy solution is because the PTB wanted to use the Great Depression to usher in certain agendas.

Unfortunately, the Fed could very easily create another great depression simply by drying up the money supply.

The too much money concentrated into too few hands situation has only gotten worse since 1920.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 39

RE: Factory jobs: 3 million lost since 2000 - 4/22/2007 12:54:11 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TexasMaam

I believe it was Ross Perot who warned us that we'd here a giant sucking sound as all of our US jobs went overseas. TM

Yes, it was Perot. Not that it matters one bit now... I voted for him.

(in reply to TexasMaam)

Post #: 40

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