New Paradigm Relating / Domination (Full Version)

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cloudboy -> New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 8:46:57 AM)

>New Paradigm Relating n : a philosophy of relationship which emphasizes using the relationship to consciously enhance the psychological and spiritual development of the partners. New paradigm relating is characterized by responding authentically in the present moment, honoring individual autonomy, equality, total honesty and self responsibility.<

How many of you Doms and Dommes feel the above is integrated into your domination style? Is it more important to you that your sub or slave remain centered on you (fetching a glass of water, following commands, making you the center of their universe) or more important that your partner fully develop as an independent but "contolled" person?

Note: The "total honesty" thing kind of makes me chuckle.

Note II: The suggestion here is a kind of radical relationship freedom. Can this be comingled with BDSM? If so, how?




ownedgirlie -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 8:49:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Is it more important to you that your sub or slave remain centered on you (fetching a glass of water, following commands, making you the center of their universe) or more important that your partner fully develop as an independent but "contolled" person?


I have never heard the term.  Where did you quote this from?

As to your question above, one can do both. 




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 8:54:14 AM)

Ditto.  We do all that, but we don't need a fairly empty buzzword and definition to help us along.




MasterFireMaam -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 9:10:26 AM)

This is the core of my Mastery.

Master Fire




thetammyjo -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 9:13:38 AM)

(warning: the following may have the customary rambling all of you should be used to by now from me)

While I have my rules and my rituals, I run my household with this guiding rule for everyone in it (me, husband, and any slaves): Each person needs to become the best person she/he can become; this family will help each member do that as long as each member supports the family.

So my slaves do have rules and rituals.  Sometimes these annoy, sometimes they comfort, sometimes they simply are. 

Many of them are based on common politeness with a control twist.  It is polite to let other members of the family know what you are doing and see if it interfers with others' plans turns into ask my permission with my slave.  The end result is exactly the same -- communication and consideration of everyone in the family.  Sometimes instead of asking for permission, Fox will ask "Do you need me this weekend, Mistress" or "Are we scheduled to do anything this weekend?"  Then after finding out that information he would say "I've got an offer of overtime hours or my friend has invited me over to watch a movie."  I don't think I can remember the last time I said "no" because I usually say "Ok, that sounds fine, write it on the calendar."

At the same time as his owner I can be more pushy than let's say a girlfriend/wife could on some issues.  Fox currently hates his job and he complains about it.  A girlfriend might "nag" and say "then get a new job" or "you can't quit, cause then we won't have money".  As his own my response has been:  "Have you talked to your supervisor?  Have you looked for other jobs? Finally how long could you be with out a job and still pay your bills?"

If he were my husband or boyfriend, I'd feel more dependent on him, I think, I do with the husband I know.  I'd take these announcements about his more personally.  He doesn't support me, he's my slave, he adds to but is not necessary for my life.  Therefore I think I can actually help him learn to become more because I'm not so tied up in him as let's say I would be with a spouse or vanilla partner.

Now of course this is also a result of my general philosophy of consensual slavery.  My slave serves me at my pleasure.  I do not allow myself to become dependent on him nor do I allow him to become dependent on me.  We enter our dynamic as equals and should make sure we could leave it as equals should that time ever come.

So, yes, we do indeed of authority set up in the relationship but that relationship was created from one of initial equality. 

I think I'm done rambling now. 




MstrssPassion -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 9:17:14 AM)

this is new?




DawnFire -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 9:20:13 AM)

I would like to know where you got that from too.

And yeah, I enjoy helping my submissive become the best he can be.  By giving me the control he is giving me the ability to guide him to where both he and I want him to go.  It's a nice dynamic.  Not really new, it is what it is.




MstrssPassion -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 9:20:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Is it more important to you that your sub or slave remain centered on you (fetching a glass of water, following commands, making you the center of their universe) or more important that your partner fully develop as an independent but "contolled" person?


I have never heard the term.  Where did you quote this from?

As to your question above, one can do both. 


I found the quote on this webpage

http://www.polyamorysociety.org/language.html




QuietDragon -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 9:22:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I have never heard the term.  Where did you quote this from?

As to your question above, one can do both. 


I just Googled it and found the quote on http://www.polyamorysociety.org/language.html, and also found it mentioned on a long list of polyamory sites.

Hope this helps.




aldompdx -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 9:31:17 AM)

That is nothing new at all, except for the artificial label.




Celeste43 -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 10:23:18 AM)

We refer to the preference for authenticity and honesty as emotional transparency. And yes, that's what our relationship is based on, not obedience nor service.




Stranger1 -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 11:13:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

>New Paradigm Relating n : a philosophy of relationship which emphasizes using the relationship to consciously enhance the psychological and spiritual development of the partners. New paradigm relating is characterized by responding authentically in the present moment, honoring individual autonomy, equality, total honesty and self responsibility.<

How many of you Doms and Dommes feel the above is integrated into your domination style? Is it more important to you that your sub or slave remain centered on you (fetching a glass of water, following commands, making you the center of their universe) or more important that your partner fully develop as an independent but "contolled" person?

Note: The "total honesty" thing kind of makes me chuckle.

Note II: The suggestion here is a kind of radical relationship freedom. Can this be comingled with BDSM? If so, how?


I prefer a naturally developed paradign that emphasizes a symbiotic sharing, based on our basic natures.




SusanofO -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 2:25:23 PM)

cloudboy: What a good topic. I think it can never hurt to see where people are actually doing and enacting whatever philosophy they say they use, and to take a fresh look to see if they really are doing it, no matter what their "philosophy" might be.

And yes, IMO, much of this philopsophy, on the surface, or even altogether, seems to fly in the face of especially the "My way or the highway" school of Dominance. Let's take a look - it does bring up some intriguing questions, IMO.

I have no real-life experience yet as a Domme, but will answer based on my thoughts anyway, of what I believe so far.

Responding authentically in the present moment: This ingredient intrigued me as far as being able to be able to gauge a sub's or slave's reactions to varying circumstances, combined with the notion of helping a submissive or slave to "grow". Falling back onto the notion that "We just always do it the way we've done it" (no matter what the situation is, or the fact every day is new, or one may require a new solution) because "I am the Dominant" may be technically correct. It could also be detrimental to a relationship, and possibly lazy as well. Depends.  

Honoring Individual Autonomy - I'd consider this important. If someone wants a robot, they should get a robot, or a rubber doll (they're available). Also, part of the notion of honorable Dominance, IMO seems to be a commitment to a sub/slave's growth and welfare. In matters less consequential, I can see where a Dominant's preferences take precedence (and possibly almost automatically, but do hate to generalize). However - the deeper the issue, and the more life-altering the consequences (for either party  actually), how can a committment to a sub/slave's welfare really be claimed by a Dominant, without taking their ability to self-determine to a degree, into consideration in a deeper way?

And without honoring their uniqueness and ability to self-determine things like classes to enroll in if they are in school, or what job to take, for example? I guess I view a Dominant's role here more as a Mentor, then (and realizing there are some instances where a submssive truly knows what is best for themselves to do, and may not even need advice).    

Equality - This seeems to conflict most with D/s and yet, if one doesn't consider one's partner as equal, again I wonder how one can claim to have their welfare truly at heart. Maybe the final decision rests w/a Do/Domme, but the welfare of a sub/slave needs to be taken as an equal consideration, IMO, or else there how can they trust that the Dominant truly does have their supposed "best interests" at heart? I am going to think more on this, because it deserves more reflection and something about it is bugging me.

Honesty - Well yes, there is "total honesty", and then there is discretion being the better part of valor, and knowing when to keep one's mouth shut, and also, just plain not being mean (especially w/no higher purpose in mind).

I love it when I see or watch someone who is "committed to total honesty", who seems to think even a "white lie" to spare someone's feelings is somehow "wrong" or truly "damaging"  runs up against a person who may have more old-fashioned notions of etiquette or manners. It can truly be the stuff of which great situation comedies can be made! [:D][;)] Nuff said, but am going to think, more on this, too.

I'd add that a "brutally honest" Dominant might not exactly be drawing out the trust they claim to want their sub/slave to feel, by intimidating them. Not always, IMO, a worthy or smart goal (unless both people are into the idea, as a "kink"). 

Self-responsibility - This is what Dominants are supposed to do, aren't they - be able to take this idea pretty seriously, and apply it to themeselves? How can they be trusted to guide a submissive or a slave, if they can't, much less "steer" a relationship?

As for a sub/slave, I remember a Dominant  here once saying he could not believe the number of submissives on tippie-toes, waiting for Daddy to "remake and mold them. His insinuation was not flattering, as he was looking to interact w/an adult who could make decisions and function as one, regardless of the fact his word was the "final word". I guess the level of what anyone considers okay here is maybe a matter of preference, but I definitely saw his point.    

Good topic! So much food for thought!

- Susan




SusanofO -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 3:23:28 PM)

The Equality notion is really bugging me. I need to think more about it, but am groggy just now. Hope someone else answeres, as this ingredient in the Paradigm is really a question for me, and maybe if they do, I'll wake up and be able to think about it more, havign soem ideas to bounce it off...IMO this is an intriguing topic.

- Susan




Stranger1 -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 3:26:12 PM)

Equality of ability

Inequality of authority.




SusanofO -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 3:37:14 PM)

Stranger1 (or anyone, actually): Okay, thank you. Hmmm. Can you expound a bit?

*What about if there is a situation of the notion of equality conflicting as far as what is really best for the submssives' welfare, for example? Like moving to a new location, or a Dominant taking a new job, forexample?

*Do the Dominant's preferences automatically take precedence then, if there is some conflict of interest?

How would you personally resolve a question like this? Has it happened to you in a relationship? Just wondering (not being disrespectful).

- Susan




Stranger1 -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 3:42:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Okay. Can you expound a bit? What about if there is a situation of the notion of equality conflicting as far as what is really best for the submssives' welfare, for example? Like moving to a new location, or a Dominant taking a new job? Do the  Dominant's preferences always take precedence the, if there is a conflict? How do you personally resolve this? Has it happened to you in a relationship? Just wondering (not being disrespectful).

- Susan


Relationship dynamics and life situations often come into conflict. The priorities set for either will determine the eventual outcome. If a man "owns" a woman he may decide he can be selfish-even if it is not really in her best interests. They had decided previously that it would be so-the die was cast.

More egalitarian couples might decide to change relationship status rather than suffer life changes.

It ultimately comes down to dedication to ideals-vs. covenience a lot of the time.




SusanofO -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 3:47:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stranger1
It ultimately comes down to dedication to ideals-vs. covenience a lot of the time.


It seems to be this way, yes. What exactly do you mean by "more Egalitarian couples electing to change the relationship status"? Just wondering. 

In some situations, that strikes me as unfortunate for the submissive.
I'd never want a Dominant who automtically expected me to give up a lucrative job, or re-locate, for example, if they could do so themselves easily, and it would be very difficult for me, just because they are the Dominant, and it is fundamentally their "right". Etc.

That is really why I thought this part was such an intriguing Q.

It is so easy for people to say: "Oh yeah, we all know we should be doing this. Or even, "Oh yeah, I do this all the time, no question"

I wonder, though, how many relationships have broken up because people really weren't doing things near like this, or because it was just too inconvenient to implement (unless it genuinely conflicts w/their philosphy).

*I am not questioning you personally, just thinking out loud .

That would seem to indeed be in direct conflict, at times, with the notion of  "having someone's best interests at heart"  (as a submissive).

- Susan




Stranger1 -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 3:55:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stranger1
It ultimately comes down to dedication to ideals-vs. covenience a lot of the time.


It seems to be this way, yes. What exactly do you mean by "more Egalitarian couples electing to change the relationship status"? Just wondering. 

In some situations, that stirkes me as unfirtunate for the submissive.
I'd never want a Dominant who automtically expected me to give up a lucrative jon, or re-locate, for example, if they could do so themselves easily, and it would be very difficult for me, just because they are the Dominant, and it is fundamentally their "right". Etc. Thta is why I thought this is such an intriguing Q.

It is so easy for people to say: Oh yeah, we all know we should be doing this.
I wonder, though, how many relationships have broken up because people really weren't doing anything near this, or because it was just too inconvenient to implement.
(unless it really conflicts w/their philosphy).
That would seem to indeed confluct with the notion of  "having my best interests at heart".

- Susan


Change in relationship status just means the parameters changed, or they broke up. Things don't always work out-just part of life. As far as best interests?

For a woman or man truly happy only in a slave position-exactly how is a master leaving them behind because of their location/job status going to be "serving thier best interests?" Especially when they may never find that again.




SusanofO -> RE: New Paradigm Relating / Domination (4/16/2007 3:57:33 PM)

My point exactly. But some expect it, it seems.

I just read a thread on the "Ask a Mistress" forum about some poor submissive who had some serious abdominal problems (possibly life -threatening, like Appendicitis) whose Mistress wouldn't take the sub's notions she was seriously ill seriously enough to bother to take her to the ER. Because doing so apparently was going to interrupt her evening, and-or beauty sleep. The submissive could have died, and ended up feeling guilty and was derided by the Domme for calling an ambulance. Those kinds of situations, frankly, give me the willies.

I am not bashing Dominants generally, but once in awhile, when I hear this stuff, it just makes me want to scream. Hopefully, they are the exception to the rule.  

- Susan




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