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Learning to love pain? - 4/14/2007 4:45:17 PM

Rorie

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A question came up in a lifestyle discussion as to whether some submissives (slaves, bottoms, etc) were hard wired to like pain, and others not. Or is it possible to take a submissive who does not like pain at all and turn her (or him) into a masochist. Would like to hear from anyone with actual experience either way.

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RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/14/2007 5:00:01 PM

BeatMeDaily

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I am very much a masochist. Always seeked thrills and extra sensory inputs.
It's like going 180 mph on the motorcycle, bungie jumping, falling, hanging out
of a helicopter going 150mph with a machine gun, etc ...
Life on the edge. When I found pain, it was hard to accept and get used to,
but it still turned me sexually like nothing ever had, and I've tried nearly everything.
Maybe growing up in Catholic Schools and being an Army brat helped. With 4 out of 6
of my family in the Army, including myself, toughness was the theme.
My earliest memories I can remember being scared of many things, even crossing a running stream.
Then at one point I had enough and decided it was time to be more adventorous.
I've never looked back but have reached my limits of what I like and don't like to do
and how far to go. But if new experiences were to be offered I would probably try them,
as long as they had some thrill to it.

_____________________________

It takes all kinds of critters to make Uncle Ben's fritters.

(in reply to Rorie)

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RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/14/2007 5:17:22 PM

crouchingtigress

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From: Maui
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welcome to the boards......anything you do long enough while being exposed to positive stimulus will effect the memories and experiences the brain has of that thing, it eventually overrides fear, social conditioning and other emotions such guilt and shame...any one can be turned in to a pain slut, or anything else, with enough recapitulation of the memories and associations of the thing they desire to become....

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(in reply to BeatMeDaily)

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RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/14/2007 5:24:09 PM

LaMspeach

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I hated pain when i first became Master's slave but over time i have learned to crave pain from Him. I think it has more to do with the need to serve and please then just wanting pain. I dont like , want or crave pain from anyone else.

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peach ~ LordandMasters devoted alpha slave
"Only when the year has grown cold does one know that the pine and cypress are the last to wither"

(in reply to Rorie)

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RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/14/2007 5:25:54 PM

hmmmmnbird

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Very interesting question. I always say I don't like pain at all, but, if it is administered at just the right time, it can send me over the edge!
I like the power dynamic, and usually, the only thing I get out of being hurt physically is the joy of the seeing the pleasure the 'top' or is receiving.
Amy's response is very itneresting. I'll be watching this thread. Thanks for posing the question.

(in reply to Rorie)

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RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/14/2007 5:47:29 PM

minnetar

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i don't like pain at all. Even tried to be with someone who was very much into it and was abused so that made me fear pain even more.

minnetar

(in reply to Rorie)

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RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/14/2007 6:08:29 PM

willowspirit

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Why would any submissive like to become a Masochist! Sadists would rather have someone who doesn't want the pain. And Dominants don't care for the Masochist SEEKING that Pain -- all the sort of "topping" from the bottom stuff --- Plus it takes away one of the tools Dominants use to influence their submissive one.
However....
If one considers her- or himself to be a "Service Top" then Yeah... sure... many of you are happy to provide a sensation, enjoy the show, make a great scene, exercise those special skills and impress people, see how far you can take a person, etc. etc...
I know people who are "hard wired" having a sort of brain function that interprets pain as actual pleasure.
Masochists have been known to attract users, players, and abusive wannabees too. It's a rough life. Dangerous.
Many masochists actually have Dominant personalities -- and they NEED to !!!

Then ---
On the other hand ---
If one's Master or Dominant One wishes to take and make a submissive / slave more masochistic, then, of course, a good submissive /slave will WANT to go there. I understand it takes time and effort, and planning, and lots of feedback.
I am a deep-end psychological submissive, looking to give myself over as a slave to a Dominant who accepts the commitment to eventually master me and become my Master. From my experience in the past, I am also one who recognizes Pain as Pain -- and doesn't like it! Though, pain helps me be "receptive". My little "i' flows into my Dominant because of the pain. i flow by looking into His eyes to help get me through it. It grows the trust. The intimacy. Little by little i find i want to go to this place He has prepared for U/us.

I've seen Masochists in play. Heavy, hard core masochists. And i have envied them and had wished i could be like them. And then I looked a little deeper. While they are wonderful people too, I like who "i /I" am -- and from what I have observed, I would lose some of that.

Does this make sense?

(in reply to hmmmmnbird)

Post #: 7

RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/14/2007 6:16:45 PM

His1kitten

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i had never really thought of pain as being anything remotely erotic until my One and i started experimenting. i find that the pain from say, nipple clamps bring much pleasure upon being taken off. That is just one example. i also see what it does to my One, and that makes the sensations that much more intense.

i guess you could say i am all for it, however it is as individual as any relationship. You have to find what works for you.

(in reply to willowspirit)

Post #: 8

RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/14/2007 6:22:03 PM

sublizzie

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I wouldn't say that I am hard-wired to like pain. I like providing a canvas for a Dominant sadist to practice their craft because I see it as a way to give service to them. Pain does get my endorphins flowing though and that's lovely. So there is a pay off for enduring the pain. I'm sure that with the right stimulation I could progress to wanting the pain for the endorphin rush, but I'm not anywhere near there yet.

(in reply to Rorie)

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RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/14/2007 6:26:04 PM

BabyNyla

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well ... I didn't much like pain when I started my journey as a submissive. But after seeing how my Daddy reacted to it and loved it I began to crave it over time. I actually get very wet from pain now ... but I still do fear pain and often ask him to stop (I am a bit of a wuss). I also crave the bruises and welt that remain after a painful session ... so that I can look at them for days after and remember how I took Daddy's pain and made him so pround of me.

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RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/14/2007 6:31:33 PM

grlneedstolearn

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i'm not into pain at all, but if i have an adreline high going on than i can take pain really well. Not sure why though

(in reply to Rorie)

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RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/15/2007 8:13:16 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Most people, over time with good experiences, can learn to broaden their range of converting "traditional painfu sensations" into "happy sensations."

How far that range can broaden tends to be very individualized, and definitely based as well on their training and experiences.

And some people, like me, simply don't have hardly any range at all.

There's also the complication of wanting pain for the submission/intensity/fear/pleasure of another, versus wanting pain for the direct sensation.

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(in reply to grlneedstolearn)

Post #: 12

RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/15/2007 9:28:21 AM

Elorin

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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willowspirit
Why would any submissive like to become a Masochist! Sadists would rather have someone who doesn't want the pain. And Dominants don't care for the Masochist SEEKING that Pain -- all the sort of "topping" from the bottom stuff --- Plus it takes away one of the tools Dominants use to influence their submissive one.

Erm...you are painting the world with a rather wide brush there.
I'm a sadist. And while I get pleasure from someone who doesn't enjoy pain enduring it for my pleasure, I also get pleasure from working with someone who LIKES pain so that I can exercise my desire to do damage, create intense pain, etc. I have NO problem with a masochist who seeks pain, as I am a sadist who seeks to inflict it. There's nothing wrong with having complimentary desires. Not to mention, if I was working with someone who didn't want pain, that would be non-consensual, wouldn't it? I'm a consensual sadist, and enjoy playing with both masochistic bottoms as well as those who are submissive and enduring for my pleasure.
A masochistic submissive doesn't take away ANY of the tools I use to influence my submissive, because I don't do the corporal punishment route with anyone ANYWAY.

I can see how you might have run into things in your experience that cause you to make such broad stereotypes, but they are exactly that - stereotypes - and by NO means apply to the entire population of dominants and/or sadists in the world.

~on to the OP~
Start with definitions. My personal definition of masochist is someone who derives pleasure and/or sexual arousal from experiencing pain.
By that definition, I am NOT a masochist. Never have been.
However, I can state that since my relationship with Sir began, I have begun to associate certain forms of pain with erotic pleasure. Reason: Sir is turned on by hurting me. I like Sir when he's turned on. I like turning Sir on. Sir is pleased by my submission. I like pleasing Sir. Therefore, I have gotten to the point that when Sir pinches my nipples fiercely, or spanks me, I get aroused. The motive for the arousal is that I know it arouses and pleases my partner. But the mental association is still with the pain.
There are certainly a great deal of examples of people who became conditioned to associate sexual satisfaction and tittillation with pain to the point that pain by itself turns them on. Whether that means they became a masochist or were simply conditioned (Pavlovian response) is something you'd have to speak to each individual about.

I do know that if someone other than Sir were to pinch my nipples, cane me, or do any of the myriad things that Sir does to hurt me, the response would NOT be sexual arousal. It would be self defense.

~E

(in reply to willowspirit)

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RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/15/2007 9:46:18 AM

missturbation

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I really don't think i'm hard wired to enjoy pain. I think if that was the case i would enjoy all pain and i really don't. If i stub my toe, bang my funny bone it hurts like hell and i whinge like a baby. If my Sir gives me ten of the best with a single tail i go all gooey and love it.
I think its down to what my mind associates the pain with, be it 'ouch i've had an accident' or 'yummy i'm getting whipped'. If that makes sense!!

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RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/15/2007 9:54:23 AM

BOUNTYHUNTER

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NOT always Rorie,some are hard wired pain sluts in the making and just don't know it yet,they just need a push to fly.Others aren"t hardwired and can be taken just so far..example a pleasure slave I had here,DIANE DECIDED TO test her tolerance and after a few minutes on the rack she passed out..So the answer is in a grey area some are and some aren't ..continue to test your limits..as always just the views of this ol" master

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(in reply to Rorie)

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RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/15/2007 10:06:35 AM

viperess

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Why would any submissive like to become a Masochist! Sadists would rather have someone who doesn't want the pain. And Dominants don't care for the Masochist SEEKING that Pain

Greetings,
Wow this was news to both Master and i as He seems to enjoy the fact that i like pain and it so has nothing to do with topping from the bottom as that type thing really chaps my ass. i am not a top nor do i have any desire to be. Yes i like pain, or maybe i should say i crave and desire pain as to me it leads to pleasure. That is not to say i can not find pleasure without pain because that would not be true. Some of us are just made that way as i do not remember a time when i did not like pain (not as in broken bones and such as that is a different type of pain) now yes there are times that my pain tollerance is not as high as others but that is when i let things around me take me to a place where i am not centered but for the most part i find much pleasure from the pain Master inflicts upon me.
respectfully,

_____________________________

viperess slave of BlackTarnHeart
heart and chain sister to velvetvixen68

(in reply to BOUNTYHUNTER)

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RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/15/2007 10:44:28 AM

mp072004

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LuckyAlbatross made some good remarks.

I do think there are people with a natural talent for masochism. Some of those people might well be submissives and slaves.

Are you looking to learn to *enjoy* pain, or to better *endure* pain? These are two different things. For the first, you might try to eroticise it and combine pain with sexually pleasurable sensation. You could also try learning to like pain in a non-erotic way--if you have any athletic experience or inclinations, you could draw on that. Enduring pain is a different matter, and a lot of that involves breathing and concentration--mind games. Meditation experience could be helpful. You might also try to talk yourself into whatever it is you want--if it's enduring pain, you could develop a bit of a "macho" headspace, a sense of pride in your ability to endure pain. Think about how you could mentally "spin" an SM scene so you could think it was fun. If you've managed to convince yourself that you're enthusiastic about a horribly dull function, then you might understand this option well.

You might try different kinds of pain, and contemplate what you enjoy, and what might make it better. Hitting with different implements. Pressure points and muscle grabs. Muscle fatigue. Electricity, in its various forms. Clamps. Needles. Varying the circumstances of your receiving pain could help, too--does a long warmup do it for you? No warmup? Do you like a series of smaller peaks and lulls, or do you want the scene to steadily increase to a single peak, and then cool down? Is it better if you work out, or eat, or sleep immediately before? It's rare to see a masochist who enjoys every kind of pain the body is capable of experiencing--even people who seem to enjoy all typical SM activities scream and run away at urinary tract infections.

Some dominant sadists like to play with bottoms who clearly dislike the scene, but who have consented. Fifth Angel has written about this habit somewhere. I think you've gotten some good testimonials from submissives who receive pain as an act of submission or service. I enjoy playing with people who dislike the sensations and have consented. Endurance for my pleasure is hot. I also enjoy playing with enthusiastic submissive masochists. Dominants, if teasing submissives by giving and withholding what they enjoy is your thing, most submissive masochists prefer some types of pain to other types. I'm not so good at strictly service topping, so I don't usually play with people who want to both run the scene and receive pain (dominant masochists) but I can have fun with "egalitarian SM," where there isn't a power dynamic but pain is present. And then, among the woods of submissives, masochists, endurance bottoms, and the like, there are people who fetishise particular roleplays in which pain is necessary for the roleplay to serve its purpose (i.e. pleasure for participants--and spectators, if relevant). Perhaps you could find a scenario incorporating pain, like interrogation, punishment, challenges, or ritual ordeal, an appealing introduction to enjoyable scenes that include SM.

Monica

(in reply to Rorie)

Post #: 17

RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/15/2007 11:34:53 AM

krikket

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From: Washington, DC Metro Area
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There are certain types of pain that i like, but fir ne those are "learned responses" rather than 'innate responses". In the beginning of my journey i did what i did to please my Master. He taught me that my main purpose in life what to please him and to be found pleasing by him, whether thru pain, dress, chores, humiliation, etc.

Now that i have a bit more time under my felt, however, there are certain things (flogging, OTK spankings, for example), that i enjoy for my own pleasure as well as his. It took me a while to work thru the idea that it was okay for me to receive physical pleasure from these activities, but with his help i finally did. There are still types of pain i'm not real crazy about, but seeing the look of satisfaction and pride on his face is all the incentive i need.

Cheer,
jimini

_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin

When your heart speaks take good notes.

(in reply to Rorie)

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RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/15/2007 2:03:19 PM

earthycouple

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willowspirit

Why would any submissive like to become a Masochist! Sadists would rather have someone who doesn't want the pain. And Dominants don't care for the Masochist SEEKING that Pain -- all the sort of "topping" from the bottom stuff --- Plus it takes away one of the tools Dominants use to influence their submissive one.

ok...I am NOT a service Top but it certainally matters to me how my sub feels and if there is good for him in what I do. I have a friend...I met him right here on collarme who thrives on taking pain for the sadistic side of me. Sadism isn't about harming someone, it's about getting out of me what's inside in a way that is harsh. I choose to do that with someone who can handle harsh. If a sadist or anyone does this to someone who can't handle harsh it is no longer BDSM it is abuse. Plain and simple.

Punishment is not all about pain either. I am not a Sadist because I enjoy punishing. Punishment is individualized to each person...for some pain, for some harsh words or a stern look, for some being ignored or tied up and thrown in a closet. I hate it when I am asked how I punish my subs...and the reason is because I don't know until I have a clear idea of what makes my sub tick.

D~

"I may hurt you but will never harm you"

(in reply to willowspirit)

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RE: Learning to love pain? - 4/15/2007 5:36:08 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaMspeach

I hated pain when i first became Master's slave but over time i have learned to crave pain from Him. I think it has more to do with the need to serve and please then just wanting pain. I dont like , want or crave pain from anyone else.

Funny, I crave it from Master and yet I still hate it when I receive it! As it's occurring, all I want is for it to stop. And when it stops, I want more. What the heck is up with that, I wonder...

On a seperate note, he doesn't derive his pleasure from inflicting pain itself. His pleasure comes from the submission displayed when I take it and don't turn away from it, as much as it hurts, as much as I hate it, as much as I want to recoil and run away from it. When as much as I want to scream out to him to stoppppppp...I don't, and instead, bite my lip, pound the carpet, kick my legs out, and do whatever it takes to stay in place for another whack. Ugh. Usually I can hang in there.....and sometimes...well, not so good, lol. But that's why he won't tie me in place before a whipping, and will order me to stay in place on my own, instead.

As for learning to love pain? Well, three years into this with him and I'm still trying to figure that one out!

(in reply to LaMspeach)

Post #: 20

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