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RE: i am missing a cat - 4/11/2007 10:50:48 PM

Devilslilsister

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Hey!! Thanks for the response!! I was hoping you would respond. The snopes photo's didnt pop up, but i have a clue what you're talking about. LOL - yeah all gators pretty much look alike to me. There is small, smaller, big, bigger, and OMG....

Thanks on the email, i'll pass onto my mother that its not true and not to worry. = ) Yuppers, i'm in florida but not from florida, so Gators and the wild life is abit beyond me.

Ty ty ty on the triggers. ::mentally stores - tap gator gently and repeatedly on the nose, side of mouth, ears, and eyes:: But of course, if all else fails triggering a gator to go into a death roll might save your life. Gators usually take their catch under water and drown them right? So if it rips off a limb, technically you'll have the ability to not be drowned and the opportunity to make it to safety. The gator has the limb.. you have your body. Possible? Although the loss of blood might get you as you scoot yourself away to safety..... i wonder.. (if one had a cell phone) how long would it take for your body to bleed to death if you have a limb ripped off? Do you have longer if you use a tournequet? Or if you rub like mud and w/e else into the open wound to help stop the bleeding and get the blood to coagulate?

::smiles:: i understand that problems with gators results from humans and i have no future plans of teasing a gator. But, there is alot of lakes and swampish area around here and there is this nice area across the main road that i like to walk around in (has paths and stuff.. yet at the same time wildish) and i just like to be prepared. I know that one has to climb up past 8 feet to escape a gator, BUT what if there isnt a tree around? AND what if you're walking around and a gator pops out of a bush at you? What if its breeding season and you stumble onto aggressive gators.. or if its birth season and you stumble upon a mommy gator and her babies?? i did that once actually, but the really wierd noise coming from the bushes (and of course the sign that said beware of gators) had me doubling back the way i came.....

so ya never know!

Thanks for the info again!! A plan of action is always a must. And i guess if a gator gets anyone i'm with, to try the pole thing, eh?

< Message edited by Devilslilsister -- 4/11/2007 10:54:36 PM >

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RE: i am missing a cat - 4/11/2007 10:55:54 PM

Devilslilsister

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Oh and i was thinking........ what if one were to have like a really large stick - like a walking stick.....

Went to a Gator farm and the lady there was boinking the gators on the head with it. i personally thought she was nuts, but the gators backed off of her!

lol

ok - i need to go to bed - my spelling and ability to write a coherent sentence is dwindling

< Message edited by Devilslilsister -- 4/11/2007 10:56:53 PM >

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RE: i am missing a cat - 4/12/2007 1:06:21 AM

Najakcharmer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister
Ty ty ty on the triggers. ::mentally stores - tap gator gently and repeatedly on the nose, side of mouth, ears, and eyes:: But of course, if all else fails triggering a gator to go into a death roll might save your life.

Hell no. I think you'd be royally fucked. Gators don't knowingly use the "drag prey to drown it" strategy as far as I can tell. They do retreat to water for various other reasons, but dragging you down isn't really what they're thinking per se. What it looks to me like they're thinking is looking for better leverage and retreating to a safe place away from what they consider alarming or threatening. This can have the effect of drowning a victim, sure. So you're probably better off by not triggering this particular behavioral response. All of the 'handler accidents" I've seen were dealt with via nose tap and all ended in fairly quick and successful extrication. Everyone remained calm and no one alarmed the animal unduly, it was merely stimulated to open its mouth again with light tapping.

I suspect that some of the worse horror stories happened because the incidents involved people who didn't know the behavioral triggers and tripped the wrong ones. Struggling, seriously striking the animal, hitting its body or otherwise alarming it would probably trigger either the roll or the retreat to water or both. Calm and professional handling to trigger the desired behavioral responses (eg, opening the mouth) works a hell of a lot better than pitting yourself physically against an animal that is a lot stronger than you and equipped with some nasty weaponry.

quote:

Gators usually take their catch under water and drown them right? So if it rips off a limb, technically you'll have the ability to not be drowned and the opportunity to make it to safety.

No, that's a decidedly awful idea. That's not how gators work. They don't "think" that way. Pretty much they just try to eat whatever they have, and if they feel threatened they run into the nice safe water to hide with it, or try to detach a portion to run with.

I'm a critter wrangler, not an EMT, so I can't answer much about what happens when you get a limb ripped off by an alligator. I can emphatically suggest that you not get yourself into that position in the first place.

quote:

I know that one has to climb up past 8 feet to escape a gator, BUT what if there isnt a tree around? AND what if you're walking around and a gator pops out of a bush at you?

Not really. Gators can't climb, and the bigger ones can't even heave their bodies up terribly high even with the complete support of a fence. I'd worry most about the agile, skinny, highly food motivated specimens in the 5' to 7' range, since they actually have some speed on them and can do a bit of climbing and heaving when sufficiently motivated. I very seriously doubt they can make it 8 feet up however, and gators can't jump for shit unless they do it directly out of the water. Also it is pretty rare for them to be sufficiently motivated to go that far after a person unless somebody has been hand feeding them.

For those lighter weight gators under 8', I engage in a brief but firm discussion with them involving a short stout pole applied with leverage under the lower jaw when they get too close to be polite. It stops them cold and makes them back up. If the gator is too heavy for me to lift and control its head easily, I walk or jog briskly away until it gets tired of moving, which rarely takes very long with the bigger animals. Usually walking is quite sufficient. Generally it collapses out of upright locomotion with a big flomph and eyes me reproachfully. American alligators are pretty slow and rarely require so much as breaking into a run. It's some of the crocs that can run you in circles, but your likelihood of seeing any crocs in the wild North America is pretty low unless you hang out at Turkey Point.

The alligator you see is *not* likely to be a problem for you. Walk away. Or run away if it makes you feel better. The alligator that is likely to be a problem for people is the one you don't see and accidentally step right up to - or on.

quote:

What if its breeding season and you stumble onto aggressive gators.. or if its birth season and you stumble upon a mommy gator and her babies?? i did that once actually, but the really wierd noise coming from the bushes (and of course the sign that said beware of gators) had me doubling back the way i came.....

That could be a problem. About the only thing that can motivate a gator to bother a person, other than some idiot teaching it that human hands mean food, or some other idiot sticking a body part right in its face, is if you screw with a female's nesting mound. But they still aren't that hard to intimidate off the nests if your intent is to steal (or count, weigh and measure) the eggs. The noise little gators make sounds like a cross between a duck and a frog, and it's a lot of fun to imitate that call out in the swamp and see what happens. Er, okay, maybe you shouldn't indulge in this sort of fun. LOL

quote:

Thanks for the info again!! A plan of action is always a must. And i guess if a gator gets anyone i'm with, to try the pole thing, eh?

I don't know as you can learn to physically manage crocodilians by reading a post on the Internet, so my advice is not to get into such situations in the first place.

(in reply to Devilslilsister)

Post #: 23

RE: i am missing a cat - 4/12/2007 1:13:43 AM

Najakcharmer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister

Oh and i was thinking........ what if one were to have like a really large stick - like a walking stick.....

Went to a Gator farm and the lady there was boinking the gators on the head with it. i personally thought she was nuts, but the gators backed off of her!

Works great on gator farm gators. You won't get close enough to wild gators to touch them with a pole unless you use some really sneaky tactics. But if a human habituated/human fed not-wild-any-more gator bothers you, yes, you can have a discussion with it via wooden pole morse code on its head, and ask it to be more considerate of your space. Poking, rubbing, scritching and tickling is generally sufficient to make it lose interest in food begging or whatever other undesirable behavior it is engaging in. The behavioral response you want to trigger with mild aversive stimulus is "bleh, this is annoying/uncomfy, I will move somewhere else." You don't want to trigger anything else, like "ouch, predator attacking me, I need to fight for my life" or "oooh, that looks/moves/smells like FOOD."

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Post #: 24

RE: i am missing a cat - 4/12/2007 3:25:42 AM

Vendaval

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Just remember folks, when you are up to your ass in alligators,
it is difficult to remember that your first objective was to drain
the swamp.

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Post #: 25

RE: i am missing a cat - 4/12/2007 6:44:37 AM

Devilslilsister

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Thank you again for the info. LOL i dont expect to now be able to go out and physically wrangle a crocodile from reading your post........... but its good information to have stored in the back of your brain if one should ever have an emergency.

Like Master has a canal out back of his house.... there is all sorts of wild life in it. Crocodiles too. What if i should fall in? What if one should manage to get up in the back yard? Some guy recently found a 15 footer in his garage, what if i stumbled upon one around my house? Crocodiles are dangerous. They can take your life in seconds if they so choose and really there isnt much to do about it. Ha - i have all sorts of plans set up for meeting up with life threatening creatures. Ya know, i've never figured out what to do with bears. They climb = )

Good to know that croc's arent as scary as they seem and are easily avoided and even easily out ran.

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Post #: 26

RE: i am missing a cat - 4/12/2007 7:02:57 AM

Rumtiger

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So I guess most people would think me in the wrong if I just went and killed one of the big bastards if I was ever in Florida and suprised by one.

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Post #: 27

RE: i am missing a cat - 4/12/2007 7:42:14 AM

Devilslilsister

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totally not cool and it would be totally ignorant.

That happened up by the space center, 2 gators were shot.......... for retarded human error reasons. They're like mystical and have been around since dinasours (or close enough) Awesome predators..... that very few things can match them.

Although i did hear that there is this eel down in the Amazon that sends high electric pulses out that will stun a cayman alligator.

Have some respect

sheehs = (

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Post #: 28

RE: i am missing a cat - 4/12/2007 8:29:36 AM

BOUNTYHUNTER

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walk softly and carry a big"44 magum"...bounty ..edited to add as we humans encroach into their territory what are they to do.move out into the ocean,,,I myself have started a new home way back in the rugged area of WV,bears,coyotes and cougar country...ARE they to blame if they get too close hell no,IN this case one must bite the bullet and either move or make changes to keep your self safe...bounty

< Message edited by BOUNTYHUNTER -- 4/12/2007 8:34:45 AM >

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RE: i am missing a cat - 4/12/2007 10:59:03 AM

Najakcharmer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister
Like Master has a canal out back of his house.... there is all sorts of wild life in it. Crocodiles too. What if i should fall in?

Climb back out again and towel off. I used to spend an insane amount of time wading in those canals on purpose looking for wildlife to bother. Your chances of finding some by accident because you fell in for a few seconds is not good. I *never* got that lucky. If you're in Kissimmee you do not have crocodiles. You may have alligators. Your biggest problem is going to be leeches and mosquitos, not reptiles.

quote:

What if one should manage to get up in the back yard?

Ignore it, bring the pets and kids inside, or call the cops. They'll send a professional remover at no cost to you if it's over 4', but keep in mind that 99% of the professional removers are trappers looking for hides. I used to do no-kill rescue/relocations, but I don't live in Florida any more. As far as I know, I was the only one in the state at that time doing no-kill relocations. There may be others by now. I hope so.

quote:

Some guy recently found a 15 footer in his garage, what if i stumbled upon one around my house?

Suuuure he did. I'd like to see the stats and measurements made by someone qualified who was willing to attach their name and degree to it. If they don't exist, neither does the "15'" gator. I saw some truly stupid mismeasurements based on "between the eye" estimates made by wildlife officers that were in the realm of ridiculous, so don't expect any measurement you hear to be accurate unless it was taken by someone who works with gators who took a hands-on nose to tail tape measure to the animal. Everything else is horseshit. If you find a gator on your property, see above.

quote:

Crocodiles are dangerous. They can take your life in seconds if they so choose and really there isnt much to do about it. Ha - i have all sorts of plans set up for meeting up with life threatening creatures. Ya know, i've never figured out what to do with bears. They climb = )

In seconds? That would be a pretty lucky jaw positioning and an exceptionally large animal. But it's not like they are hard to avoid being bitten by, even if you are working at close quarters with them on purpose. They're kind of slow and silly.

< Message edited by Najakcharmer -- 4/12/2007 11:36:30 AM >

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Post #: 30

RE: i am missing a cat - 4/12/2007 11:30:59 AM

Najakcharmer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger
So I guess most people would think me in the wrong if I just went and killed one of the big bastards if I was ever in Florida and suprised by one.

They're not endangered, but they are protected. Mostly I'd think you were kind of stupid, since anyone can jog circles around an American alligator and avoid it without half trying. The only realistic way to get an injury from an American alligator is to get extremely close to it, basically within very short lunge range. There are some rare circumstances under which a gator will voluntarily move towards a human, but even at their most motivated they're not really hard to outrun, and they cannot keep up the faster paced upright locomotion for more than a very short distance. 10-20 feet is what I usually see before they can't run any more and collapse into the much slower belly crawl.   And in the bigger, heavier animals, even their full on run is kind of pitiful. You are unlikely to get anything resembling good exercise running from an American alligator.

I'm a small gal and I don't find it difficult to do pretty much anything I need to do to a gator, whether the gator likes it much or not. Safety tools and additional help is awfully useful when the critters get past a certain weight, but I've done without the help in a pinch.   Now I understand if you don't want to get quite as up close and personal with them, but the notion of a big strong guy being so scared that he can't even walk away from one of these big slow dinosaurs and feels compelled to do unlicensed hunting instead....well, that looks pretty ridiculous from my perspective.

Me, I think they're a hell of a lot of fun to ride.   Though they're not very efficient transport if you're trying to get somewhere. LOL But I don't recommend trying that without permits from the State and a bit more experience. ;)

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RE: i am missing a cat - 4/12/2007 12:57:25 PM

Zensee

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Your cat came back! This calls for a song...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNyqXsv4Ueo

Sing along everyone.

Z.

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RE: i am missing a cat - 4/12/2007 1:25:27 PM

Devilslilsister

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LOL Zensee my demented cat is home and up to her usual pranks of driving me nuts - its good to know she's safe.

Totally agree Bounty.

Najak - i do live in Kissimmee, but Master doesnt. We've actually seen a dolphin (he's seen a couple) out back of his house and some other things i cant remember off the top of my head. The biggest worry is the dog in the canal.... (oh yeah, and they're gators)

i'll remember your words about gators. From hearing what you've said, they dont actually seem all that life threatening. Especially if they are slow, silly, and dont like to run much. i've actually heard the opposite my whole life. They are extremely fast, can climb 8 feet in the air and the only way to "escape" them is to run in zig zags.

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Post #: 33

RE: i am missing a cat - 4/12/2007 1:55:00 PM

Najakcharmer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister
Najak - i do live in Kissimmee, but Master doesnt. We've actually seen a dolphin (he's seen a couple) out back of his house and some other things i cant remember off the top of my head. The biggest worry is the dog in the canal.... (oh yeah, and they're gators)

Yes, gators certainly do eat small mammals as a regular part of their diet. That's what they evolved to do. Dogs are small mammals. So no big surprise, they eat dogs. If your dog goes into the canal, it risks being gator lunch.

Anyone who brings non native animals into an ecosystem and lets them run loose to interact with the wildlife is going to a) be responsible for the damage that animal does to the ecosystem and b) risk losing that animal when the ecosystem bites back. Free roaming dogs and cats do a lot of damage to native animals and habitats, so if you want to keep a pet responsibly, do so in an enclosed environment where it can neither harm native wildlife nor be harmed by it.

quote:

i'll remember your words about gators. From hearing what you've said, they dont actually seem all that life threatening. Especially if they are slow, silly, and dont like to run much. i've actually heard the opposite my whole life. They are extremely fast, can climb 8 feet in the air and the only way to "escape" them is to run in zig zags.

No idea where people get these notions, but obviously they don't come from fact or personal observation. I've spent a lot of time around crocodilians both in the wild and in captivity, and they're pretty relaxing to be around for the most part. American alligators are the slowest and most placid of the lot. I've had to skip backward for a few seconds to avoid an overeager food response or a defensive response, but it's pretty poor exercise of short duration. You won't get your cardio in this way, that's for sure.

Zig zags are pointless, but jogging backward about twenty feet and then stopping to point and giggle at the poor tired gator going 'flomph" on its belly works just fine. A really lightweight animal that hasn't eaten overly well and is under 7' can get some speed on and sustain it for a bit longer, but not much longer. And if they're small enough to have noticeable speed (eg, you can't just walk away from them at a leisurely pace), they're small enough to physically control with a pole. Or run away from if you don't have a pole. I doubt you'll even break much of a sweat, from the running at least.

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Post #: 34

RE: i am missing a cat - 4/12/2007 4:39:12 PM

domiguy

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Here is a big ol' alligator....Poor little thing

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/wcgator.asp

Alligator attacks in Fla....They are coming to get you and your little pussy...Be afraid...Be very afraid

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/15/national/main1616944.shtml

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Post #: 35

RE: i am missing a cat - 4/12/2007 6:22:47 PM

Najakcharmer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Alligator attacks in Fla....They are coming to get you and your little pussy...Be afraid...Be very afraid

Referring to these incidents as "attacks" is dubious to say the least. The majority of the time, when a dead human is found with marks consistent with alligator bites, one of the following scenarios applies.

1. Victim died from other causes and was chewed on postmortem by the wildlife.
2. Intoxicated or just plain stupid person deliberately provoked, approached or otherwise interacted with the alligator.

The few remaining incidents involve people wading or swimming in swamps and stumbling directly on a gator. Common sense suggests that swamps in Florida are not the best places to go swimming. If you do wade in swamps (as I did quite often), don't stick your arms or legs anywhere you can't see clearly. It's REALLY not that effing hard not to get bitten by an alligator.

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Post #: 36

RE: i am missing a cat - 4/12/2007 8:27:16 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

If you do wade in swamps (as I did quite often), don't stick your arms or legs anywhere you can't see clearly.

This is actually fairly good advice in general.

Look where you set your feet. Dont poke your hands and legs into holes where you dont know what is in them.

I work down on the docks around heavy equipment. Set your hands in moving gears, or feet under a pallet or whatever, pull back a bloody stump.

Sinergy

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Post #: 37

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