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RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 4:52:13 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

no one gives a damn about freedom of speech anymore


It's really only a freedom of speech question if the government is stepping on him for his comments. So far as I know, that's not happening.

What is happening is capitalism. Imus's employers decided that the comments turned him from an asset to a liability. Businessfolk don't like liabilities, understandably, so they ditched him. Surely the owners of a radio station have a free-speech right to determine what to air, no?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 4:54:26 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Apparently in America you have freedom of speech, just as long as your speech isn't hateful, racist, sexist, anti-gay, anti-muslim, or anything that might hurt someone's feelings or offend someone.




      Not true, Cyber.  You can say absolutely anything about conservatives.


Im not quite sure what you are trying to say. I've known both conservative and liberals that have been racist or sexist. That has nothing to do with political affiliation.

I am not a fan of Imus. I rarely ever listened to his show. And I do not agree with his comments of the Rutgers womens B-ball team. But it is my philosophy that the most important part of the US Constitution is the 1st amendment and the freedom of speech. And I am categorically against any attempt to limit or reduce that freedom based on what society thinks is appropriate. In my opinion, whether it is society or the government...it is the same thing. Freedom of expression is being suppressed. And suppression of speech by society is all I see here.

Everyone keeps saying that firing Imus, it will send a message throughout the nation that racism will not be tolerated. GIVE ME A BREAK! You think anybody who is racist gives a damn whether Imus is fired or not. Now perhaps this firing might prevent some people from saying something out in public, but this won't change people's feelings. Suppressing speech does nothing to stop racism. In fact, people who really are hateful and racist, stories like this only enrage them more. These stories actually re-ignite those fires and debates.

Humans are not born racist or sexist. Humans are not born to hate someone because they have a different color skin. It is society and the media that is teaching racism. Society needs to change...both whites and blacks. Banning phrases and words won't do a damn thing.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 5:02:56 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Anus had a good run. He was lucky to have made it out of the 80's alive, considering his drug and alcohol abuse.

Hope he saved up for retirement, cause here it is.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 5:04:04 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Wow, how COURAGEOUS of them!
That Capus guy said that he's not concerned about the advertisers or the bottom line!
Wow, is HE ever full of shit!

P.S. when they say "it's not about the money", it's about the money!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 4/12/2007 5:05:12 PM >

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 5:07:03 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

P.S. when they say "it's not about the money", it's about the money!


Too true.

Then again, they're running a business. Shouldn't it be about the money?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 5:15:18 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		Speaking about the money... I gurantee you that all this debate will now cease. No one will do anything against the rap music industry...why? MONEY! The record companies are making massive profits. And the black artists are making massive profits. So they will be allowed to continue their hypocrisy.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 5:21:29 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Apparently in America you have freedom of speech, just as long as your speech isn't hateful, racist, sexist, anti-gay, anti-muslim, or anything that might hurt someone's feelings or offend someone.




     Not true, Cyber.  You can say absolutely anything about conservatives.


Im not quite sure what you are trying to say. I've known both conservative and liberals that have been racist or sexist. That has nothing to do with political affiliation.

I am not a fan of Imus. I rarely ever listened to his show. And I do not agree with his comments of the Rutgers womens B-ball team. But it is my philosophy that the most important part of the US Constitution is the 1st amendment and the freedom of speech. And I am categorically against any attempt to limit or reduce that freedom based on what society thinks is appropriate. In my opinion, whether it is society or the government...it is the same thing. Freedom of expression is being suppressed. And suppression of speech by society is all I see here.

Everyone keeps saying that firing Imus, it will send a message throughout the nation that racism will not be tolerated. GIVE ME A BREAK! You think anybody who is racist gives a damn whether Imus is fired or not. Now perhaps this firing might prevent some people from saying something out in public, but this won't change people's feelings. Suppressing speech does nothing to stop racism. In fact, people who really are hateful and racist, stories like this only enrage them more. These stories actually re-ignite those fires and debates.

Humans are not born racist or sexist. Humans are not born to hate someone because they have a different color skin. It is society and the media that is teaching racism. Society needs to change...both whites and blacks. Banning phrases and words won't do a damn thing.


I have no idea whether Imus is a racist or not...But at the very least he used extremely poor judgement....And yes, hopefully his firing will cause people to pause before spewing out racially inflamatory nonsense....And you are right, in that it will probably not cause anyone who is a racist to change their own personal views.

But he still has the right to speak his mind he has just lost this specific "platform."  Look,  the bottom line is that he is an employee....And I doubt if you went into your "work" and said to your boss "I don't want to work with so-and-so because they are black"   That you would expect to be employed much longer...See it really has nothing to do with free speech but more about using common sense at the work place.  Even if you and I are the biggest racists on the planet....Our work may not be tolerant or sympathetic to us utilizing our right to "free speech" while on the job and being compensated.

These are two completely unrelated topics

_____________________________



(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 5:22:55 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		You don't enjoy a right to "Free Speech" on an FCC licensed broadcast outlet.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 5:24:52 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Speaking about the money... I gurantee you that all this debate will now cease. No one will do anything against the rap music industry...why? MONEY! The record companies are making massive profits. And the black artists are making massive profits. So they will be allowed to continue their hypocrisy.


What hypocrisy....Are you comparing a rapper to Imus?

_____________________________



(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 5:24:58 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		The money is the bottom line.  When the major sponsors pull out,
there goes your show.  Imus can say whatever he wants to whomever
he wants in whatever format he can gain access to.  He can find
other sponsors or go on cable access or have a pod cast on the Net.
People who do not like him will not tune in.  His fans can support
him all they want.  He can still do his charity work and perhaps that
should be his focus now.
 
I do hope that he has a face to face meeting with the team and
gives his apology in person.  Not many people have the juevos
nor the ovarios to do that.



quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

P.S. when they say "it's not about the money", it's about the money!


Too true.

Then again, they're running a business. Shouldn't it be about the money?


_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 5:38:17 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Apparently in America you have freedom of speech, just as long as your speech isn't hateful, racist, sexist, anti-gay, anti-muslim, or anything that might hurt someone's feelings or offend someone.




    Not true, Cyber.  You can say absolutely anything about conservatives.


Im not quite sure what you are trying to say. I've known both conservative and liberals that have been racist or sexist. That has nothing to do with political affiliation.

I am not a fan of Imus. I rarely ever listened to his show. And I do not agree with his comments of the Rutgers womens B-ball team. But it is my philosophy that the most important part of the US Constitution is the 1st amendment and the freedom of speech. And I am categorically against any attempt to limit or reduce that freedom based on what society thinks is appropriate. In my opinion, whether it is society or the government...it is the same thing. Freedom of expression is being suppressed. And suppression of speech by society is all I see here.

Everyone keeps saying that firing Imus, it will send a message throughout the nation that racism will not be tolerated. GIVE ME A BREAK! You think anybody who is racist gives a damn whether Imus is fired or not. Now perhaps this firing might prevent some people from saying something out in public, but this won't change people's feelings. Suppressing speech does nothing to stop racism. In fact, people who really are hateful and racist, stories like this only enrage them more. These stories actually re-ignite those fires and debates.

Humans are not born racist or sexist. Humans are not born to hate someone because they have a different color skin. It is society and the media that is teaching racism. Society needs to change...both whites and blacks. Banning phrases and words won't do a damn thing.


I have no idea whether Imus is a racist or not...But at the very least he used extremely poor judgement....And yes, hopefully his firing will cause people to pause before spewing out racially inflamatory nonsense....And you are right, in that it will probably not cause anyone who is a racist to change their own personal views.

But he still has the right to speak his mind he has just lost this specific "platform."  Look,  the bottom line is that he is an employee....And I doubt if you went into your "work" and said to your boss "I don't want to work with so-and-so because they are black"   That you would expect to be employed much longer...See it really has nothing to do with free speech but more about using common sense at the work place.  Even if you and I are the biggest racists on the planet....Our work may not be tolerant or sympathetic to us utilizing our right to "free speech" while on the job and being compensated.

These are two completely unrelated topics


You are comparing apples and oranges. First off, Imus never refused to work with someone who is black. So we can throw that argument out the window. Second, if you or I were to make an offending comment, it would never generate this kind of news. The media is in fact a catalyst in this debate which in opinion made this remark far worse than it really was. I'll tell you the truth the first time I heard the comment, I said... "That's all? That's it?" I hear worse insults in movies on HBO or music videos on MTV every single day. But it is understandable...we are in a society that over-reacts when it comes to racism. There is a number of people that actually benefit financially when debates like this come up. I gurantee you that Jesse Jackson's Rainbow-Push Coalition just got some grants. Black Panthers picked up some funds too I am sure. Then there are those that wish to benefit politically.

Have you ever listened to office gossup? Employees calling other employees insults? This type of stuff occurs in the workplace all the time. Just the other day I overheard one woman call another woman that works in another department a "slut." Several people heard it, no one got fired.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 6:01:04 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Apparently in America you have freedom of speech, just as long as your speech isn't hateful, racist, sexist, anti-gay, anti-muslim, or anything that might hurt someone's feelings or offend someone.




quote:

theHeretic

   Not true, Cyber.  You can say absolutely anything about conservatives.




Oh silly Heretic it is well known that you can blast away at each others party....But you do have to watch so you don't cross the line of using derogatory ethnic slurs when doing it.   Is that really too much to ask?



       Like when Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson talk about folks of the Jewish persuasion?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 6:02:56 PM   
anthrosub


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

What a nice touching story...I grew up in Wisconsin, my high school had about 1700 kids all  but two were white....Everyone who pulled the fire alarms was white...The person that stole my bike was white...A girl I went to school with was murdered by a white guy....Almost every robbery, arson and murder were committed by whitey...Yet to this day they (whitey) don't seem to bother me much....So what's your point?

The reason that Imus was fired was not about whether people have heard worse on the street..We all have. It's about sponsors pulling their funding and also about the President of NBC looking at his employees and hearing them say, "he could have been talking about anyone of our daughters." 

These were not celebrities or people in the public eye...They were young woman enjoying what should have been an event that "was the time of their lives."  College students...And he ruined the moment...

I thing he got what he deserved...And hopefully others will learn from his mistake or way of thinking.

 
Well it was a touching story (if not a little bit sad).  I deliberately didn't state my point because I wanted to see what others would glean from it.  But now I will state it.
 
If you read what I said carefully, I'm showing how one person can be subjected to so much of what one might expect justifies the kind of racist attitudes that are out there but remains open-minded and doesn't generalize the whole population based on one set of experiences.  At the same time, it shows how even in the midst of a close nit family, it's possible for individuals within that group to see the wrong and not give in to peer pressure.  Out of all that happened, we (the girl who spoke calmly and myself) did not capitulate.
 
People need to hold off on perpetuating the problems out there and move past it to a point where we can hopefully further a better existence for the next generation growing up.  Perhaps this is simply an ideal but the opposite seems unthinkable to me.
 
anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 6:29:12 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy



quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Apparently in America you have freedom of speech, just as long as your speech isn't hateful, racist, sexist, anti-gay, anti-muslim, or anything that might hurt someone's feelings or offend someone.





quote:

theHeretic

  Not true, Cyber.  You can say absolutely anything about conservatives.




Oh silly Heretic it is well known that you can blast away at each others party....But you do have to watch so you don't cross the line of using derogatory ethnic slurs when doing it.   Is that really too much to ask?



      Like when Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson talk about folks of the Jewish persuasion?


Yep, you are right...And in this case there is a tremendous double standard...However I believe as they, Jackson and Sharpton, have approached the middle ther rhetoric has vastly changed...Sharpton is not near the a-hole he was in years passed....Still a major a-hole...But also,all too often, their voice is only heard when trying to get in front of the camera for some 'air time" over many causes that they probably could care less about....Jackson does some good, but has milked his position for a Bud distributorship. Then there is always Farrakhan who gets away with murder as he hurles racist insults.

It would be nice if some established black leader were to call these instances of  racist behavior "out." But alas it is up to the powers that be to police their "own." And as miserable as the truth is, it is difficult to scream racism when your "race" appears to be holding all of the cards....It would be nice if it was a perfect world.

But in the same breath we all are now aware of how the game is played and although it is flawed....There are rules and we can scream and bitch but nothing is going to change anytime soon.

Heretic, you and I are just two perfect people making their way through an imperfect world....If only more would follow are fine example....What a wonderful world it would be...

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 6:35:23 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Heretic, you and I are just two perfect people making their way through an imperfect world....If only more would follow are fine example....What a wonderful world it would be...



        But then who's tits would we stick needles in?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 6:42:18 PM   
minnetar


Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline 		Sir You brought up the topic about another black leader calling the racists out.  Look at Bill Cosby's comments and the backlash he received because of it.


minnetar

edited for my typo


< Message edited by minnetar -- 4/12/2007 6:46:53 PM >

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 6:42:35 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Heretic, you and I are just two perfect people making their way through an imperfect world....If only more would follow are fine example....What a wonderful world it would be...



       But then who's tits would we stick needles in?


The Jews.

_____________________________



(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 6:52:09 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		     Maybe Imus should have told the old joke about the Jewish girl being so happy on her wedding day because she knew she'd given her last blowjob?

   I'm guessing he'll have another job shortly with higher ratings to begin with.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 7:00:06 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Look at Bill Cosby's comments and the backlash he received because of it.


I missed that story. What did he say and what happened?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to minnetar)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: NBC News cancels MSNBC Imus simulcast - 4/12/2007 7:09:00 PM   
minnetar


Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Look at Bill Cosby's comments and the backlash he received because of it.


I missed that story. What did he say and what happened?




This was from last august.  hope the link works

http://allhiphop.com/hiphopnews/?ID=6056

minnetar

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 40
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