RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (Full Version)

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akisha -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/10/2007 9:13:29 PM)

Two things to always remember.

1. Never point a gun at someone unless you fully intend to shoot to kill.
2. Never say something you don't mean in anger, because you can never take it back.

My mother told me once that it would be kinder to punch someone in a face then to say something cruel and hurtful. The bruise fades and you can forgive but the pain and the scar from a mean word lingers for a very long time.

As for seperate rooms, if the relationship i was in has fallen that far then it's obvious we should not be together.





FelinePersuasion -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/10/2007 9:13:45 PM)

If my relationship ever got to the point where we needed his side of the house and my side of the house, and your room and my room I'd end it. I can't ever imagain not wanting to sleep with him after his snoreing problems get resolved.and be with him and hang out in the same part of the house with him.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Passion357

Suddenly it's healthy for a Husband and Wife ( or let's say Master and Slave) to have seperate rooms, sleep in seperate beds, etc etc etc ...

They even went as far as LIVING in seperate residences.

~Passion~



sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/10/2007 9:17:45 PM)

never told Daddy "i hate you" however i have raised my voice to Him that i was immediately ignored for hours (24hrs the last time i yelled at Daddy). i'm not being a brat when i yell - i merely like to pick a fight, challenge and win the argument with Him and Daddy knows this. i haven't won one yet. it seems His silent treatment works extremely well since i'm one who ends up apologizing.  now, instead of arguing with Him, i quietly withdraw myself from the conversation if i don't want to continue discussing it.



servilecat -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/10/2007 9:51:08 PM)

Daddy and i have separate bedrooms because, frankly, He snores like a banshee in heat on good days.  There was a story on the news just last week that 60% of new homes are being built with two master bedrooms due to different sleep habits or work schedules.  If it works for Passion, i say go for it as long as it works.

i base our relationship on fun, D/s, respect and loyalty.  If those things werent there, we would of course discontinue the relationship.  We try very hard not to allow outside criteria to deter our union and can hopefully always point our emotions in the right direction.  This comes for most people with years of experience and/or lots of therapy...



SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/10/2007 10:33:52 PM)

I have always tried to avoid saying things in anger tht I might regret later. I can't say I was always successful but over the years I have learned to walk away rather than say anything. Although there are also times I've all but bitten through my tongue to hold it as I walk. There's a proverb I've always loved.

Angry words are like nails hammered into wood. One can remove the nails, just as one can take back words spoken in anger. Unfortunately, the damage has been done and the aftermath will forever mar its appearance. The holes they leave behind, remain forever. Neither one are ever able to be completely repaired.  I too have a very visceral reaction to the words " I hate you" and "Shut Up". More so with the former than the latter.



SusanofO -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/10/2007 11:17:26 PM)

I am a huge fan of giving people their own space, too - and very much needing my own, as well - and I do understand where the OP is coming from, as far as a need for physical space.

I am a fan of having lots of room to move around in, and to escape to, for privacy, or to think, (or to cool off, if angry, if necessary). I think it's something that's good for me. I know it is one of the biggest reasons I stayed married as long as I did, regardless of whether it would work for anyone else, in terms of helping to preserve a relationship.

I of course like being close to a partner, and cuddling, and doing things together, or-and talking, etc - but I think the other person should have room to breathe (and I like them to give it to me, too).

I never say "I hate you", because I can't picture really meaning it -and there have been times I've been very angry, but not really still hating someone. Hating someone would demean me - someone who would provoke that much ill feeling in me, is most usually someone I'd consider beneath me being provoked into hatred by them. Seriously, this is how I feel about it.

Although, I can become pretty angry at someone, if I feel really jerked around by something they've done to me. If that starts to feel to much like hate, I think I sometimes convert it into feeling hurt, instead (mostly because I know what I can be like if I am really, extremely angry, and it can be explosive. I don't like feeling it, or exposing someone else to it, rare as it is for me).

Hurt is another story. Without going all "psycho-babbly" on you, here is how it works for me:

If I am super-pissed off, and-or feel very hurt by someone (and I have a long fuse, so they have to have done something I find pretty intolerable, for me to get to this point), but - I can be rather good at saying stuff that provokes guilt (and usually in this instance, whatever the other person did usually should make them feel guilty, IMO). It's rare, but I've done it. I will say something like:

"I can't believe that you would purposely be this hurtful toward me. What is wrong with you? Was I completely wrong to choose you as my partner, my love? I think you are becoming a stranger to me, an alien. I feel very betrayed. I feel like I don't know you anymore..." Etc.  

I do this really well, IMO - and if I say it, I mean every word, too. It is not manipulation, I am genuinely terribly, terribly hurt by the other person, if I bother to say something like this. Because I abhor fighting, and avoid it like the plague. 

If the other person has absolutely no reaction, or stops communicating if I say it, and doesn't try to mend things, I am floored by their lack of heart - I don't want to be with a cold stone of a man with no heart, and bad communication skills. In one case, their reaction to me doing this, did in fact cause me to leave them. I did not regret doing it, or leaving.

Usually, if I ever get that hurt or reactive toward someone, I am about ready to leave, or ask them to leave. It is very rare, and I've several long-term, successful relationships in my life-time, but - I consider this kind of scenario to be a serious situation for me, and that is how I've handled it in the past, most of the time.

- Susan



Elorin -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/11/2007 2:45:02 AM)

I have to say I admire those who simply decide they won't fight, and can stick to it. I wish I was able to do the same thing.

Sir and I have had a very rocky relationship since the beginning. We started out two Dominants and when I chose to submit to him, early submission was very difficult for me b/c I'd never done it before. I also had very strong opinions of what I needed as a sub, and I wasn't very good at communicating it to him. Frustration resulted on both of our parts, his from a power struggle, mine from feeling my needs weren't met.

Sir was married when I met him, and everything attendant upon the dynamics of a relationship with a married man put a lot of stress in both of our lives. I was in a relationship when I met him and my boyfriend was bascially a jerk, and those stresses affected us both as well. I've been through a LOT in my life since meeting Sir, and he's been through a lot in his life, and we have been through a lot that we endured together.

Added to this has been an ongoing struggle with bipolar, changes in medication, two admittances to psych wards for observation (thankfully no hospitalizations), and a bout of about 4 or 5 months with uncontrollable anger related to a cycle of mood swings.

Our relationship has not been easy.

We have argued. We have bickered. We have had spats, fights, and all out battles. I've thrown things. I've broken things. I've banged my head against the wall. It's gotten bad.

However, there are two things that kept us together. 1) He was determined not to end this because of my illness, but only because of my choice. If I said I wanted it to be over, he would leave. Otherwise, he was going to stick by me. 2) I love him for all he has done for me and been for me and I don't want it to be over.

I have, I admit, screamed I hate you at him in the midst of a massive argument on the phone. I think I said it two times. At the time, I felt it. I felt that he didn't care, that he wouldn't understand, that he had no compassion, that my needs didn't matter. I felt alone, out of control, and felt that as my Dom it was his job not to leave me alone, and not to abandon me when my control left me. I realize now that he did care, desperately. That at the time, he could not understand - he didn't have the tools. That he had compassion and honestly was trying as hard as he could to meet my needs, and being worn down by my constant mood swings and demands, especially in the face of stress at work, with his relationship, with my relationship. I was not alone, I had a partner at home and I wasn't turning to him, I was out of control but Sir couldn't change it, and Sir could not drop everything in his life to take care of me - but that he WAS giving me as much time and control as he could manage.

Later, Sir let me know how much I hurt him with I hate you. And while it didn't help much, I told Sir that I hate you was something I never felt for my ex-husband. It was only something I could feel for someone I loved desperately - anyone else I would just pity or stop feeling anything for.

I don't know if that wound has healed, even to this day.

But I do know that Sir and I have learned a lot. We have managed to get to the point that we can stop a fight much sooner. We don't have two week long ongoing battles that sap all of our strength and ability to function anymore. We still fight sometimes, but we have developed techniques together to recognize signs of impending doom sooner, and try to cut it off before it could do much damage.

I've told Sir get out, but we live in separate homes. Get out means get out of my space I need to be alone. That hurts him too, but he recognizes that I need to be alone in my space sometimes. Sometimes we have to end the fight with physical separation.

I don't know if anyone would call my relationship with Sir healthy if they knew all the details. But I don't know that anyone will ever know all the details. I know that we are committed, that no matter how much we fuck up we keep trying and trying and trying, and that we ARE doing better. So we keep at it.

~E



SusanofO -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/11/2007 3:43:23 AM)

Elorin: If it makes you feel any better, I was referring to my husband, as far as preserving a relationship and not arguing much, etc ( and he was definitely not a Dominant).

The person I argued with (and left) actually was my ex-Dominant. hehe. Actually w/my husband, I gave up arguing after a few years, because he just never responded, although I am really not much of a fighter (I will do it, but I have to be pretty ticked, usually).

I just grew up in a house where there seemed to be constant bickering, and so my reaction is that I usually have a pretty visceral reaction to doing it, unless backed into a corner. I do really think it might work better for some people, though, than it does for me (and I do think this may be due to that background). But, I can and will, definitely state my case, if I feel stepped on unduly. 

To me, someone really crosses an unacceptable line, if they simply refuse to communicate, or walks away because they just don't want to communicate. I am not referring here to simply "cooling off", during an argument.

Whenever my husband didn't like what I wanted to discuss, he simply got in his car and left, for hours. He knew I hated this, and it was completely non-productive, as far as solving anything. We weren't yelling, he simply didn't want to talk about whatever the topic was, and wouldn't make any further commnitment to discuss it, either.

This gradually destroyed most of our ability to communicate, and I eventually sort of just stayed to myself, and vice-versa. Like I said, it was very weird situation, but it was better (to me) than fighting and throwing things (I really hate screaming, and just don't tolerate it well). Fortunately, that situation no longer exists. I would want to be much closer than with someone, in any other, future intimate relationship, though.   

- Susan



NakedGirlScout -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/11/2007 3:46:21 AM)

Very interesting discussion. Thank you for starting the thread.

I had to think about this for a while. Master and I are more passionate with each other than anyone else I've been with, and this has included some fights. I'm not used to it because my only other long-term partner was extremely stoic and emotionally remote. Fighting scares me and removes me back to a place as a child (where there was a lot of abuse). Sometimes I turn into someone else during a fight and I don't like myself anymore.

So far nearly all of the fighting has been due to his quitting smoking nic-fits or when he's been in extreme pain for several days. Sometimes something bad has happened to me at work and I'll come home and try to pick a fight on purpose. If he's not feeling himself due to his own medical problems he sometimes doesn't catch on to it until it's well underway. Over the 1 year we've been together, he's been learning me so well that he's been able to catch on to my attempts to push his buttons and get me to stop.

Neither of us has ever told the other "get out" because we're both extremely proud and stubborn to the point that we *would* get out, out of pride. And not come back. I think I may have yelled "I hate you" in a fit of rage, but I don't remember that he's ever lashed out that way. Our fights always end with both of us crying and clinging to one another. We need one another too much to not feel the pain of the rift. We went through a rough patch when he was quitting smoking and in a lot of physical pain, and I was extremely stressed out and almost unable to cope, where this was happening every day (I don't remember why we thought it was a brilliant plan for him to stop smoking while I was going through intense stress, because it's the dumbest thing we've ever done).

I can't say that either of us would feel right about splitting up our living quarters. He's got his wood shop he can go putter around in for stress relief, but he doesn't use it to abandon me if I am not perfectly content doing something by myself. I have for my part quit chatting online, which was taking too much time and making me unavailable for conversation or anything else. I can't judge for anyone else whether it might be healthy to split up their living quarters, but I'm having trouble visualizing how or why this  would add to the emotional intimacy between the couple.

We are both learning to let go of our huge burdens of pride and reach out to the other if they are acting irritable, even if they're irritable at us. A fight only breaks out if both people are fighting. One person venting while the other says they love them has the opposite effect, dampening the bad energy. We prefer it this way now that we've been able to put down our pride.



kyraofMists -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/11/2007 4:10:55 AM)

We see this as nothing but drama and it is not tolerated in our lives.

We do get angry at each other from time to time.  However, we handle it in healthy ways and not with name calling and insults.  We do not fight.  We may vent and disagree but we do not fight with each other.  His word is law even if we think he is wrong.  There is nothing to fight over; we either accept his will and obey or we end the M/s relationship.

In play or sex anything goes and I have told him I hated him once (maybe twice) in play.  He was being especially cruel and had pushed me hard.  He enjoyed pushing me to that extreme and yet afterwards we talked about it because it bothered him that I would use those words.  It wasn't him I hated; it was being pushed that hard.  Name calling and fighting in play happens frequently and is a lot of fun.

He has not told me to get out and I can't imagine he ever would.  If he did, I know I would deserve it.  Willful disobedience is the only thing that would have him say that if he would even say it then.

Knight's kyra



MissUnleaded -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/11/2007 4:27:32 AM)

I've never said 'I hate you' to anyone in my adult life, much less to my boyfriend/Master.  I don't understand how you can feel love and hate for the same person.  The few times I've hated anyone, it's been completely unalloyed with any positive feelings at all.  Hate with disgust, loathing, pity, contempt or even fear, but never love.

We don't have fights, but I can't take credit for that.  Things have been rather challenging for me of late, and consequently I have tended to be a bit whiney sometimes.  If I had to live with me I'd probably kick myself out, but he has this great way of dealing with it.  Whenever I start to whinge about something, he listens for a bit, then chuckles, pats my hair and says in a most patronising voice 'Awww, you're so cute, <embarrassing pet name>.'  This makes me realise I'm acting childishly without the slap in the face of 'Stop acting like a kid!'  So usually I then start playing it up for laughs, wildly exaggerating the situation in order to make it funny and saying silly things that are so completely, outrageously untrue that I couldn't possibly be taken seriously.  The tension usually dissolves.  I guess I am pretty lucky to be involved with such a calm, fair and unflappable guy.



Mustardseed -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/11/2007 5:45:53 AM)

I have only agreed with one lover, ever, that they should get the hell out of my home. I think that they were actively surprised that I let them go -- that's how rare it is for me.

Daddy and I have raised our voices at each other before, and around that point we realize that we're getting nowhere. I'm embarassed to admit that Daddy is much quicker than I am to call for a timeout period where we either stop the conversation and part ways, or find some other topic to talk about. At those points, he's always been the one to figure out when to resume whatever the heck we've been hissing about ... and by that point we've tended to calm down enough to have a meta-conversation about it and figure out what's going wrong.

If I actually hated my Daddy, I'd tell him -- he wants to know these things. I've let him know, in detail, when I've been extremely unhappy with him. (Hey, I wrote a 23 page extra-credit homework assignment for him once, sent from the Our Lady of the Evening School for Wayward Young Ladies. I even found an appropriate wing-ding for the return address label. It was either that or to start screaming. He graded the paper. I got an A.) He's let me know when he's been unhappy with me.

But we've yet to get to what I would consider an excessive drama point. Both of us were so skittish of psychotic relationships when we met that we've been trying extra hard to self-monitor and make sure that we're clear on what the other person is getting at. Basically, we do low-level relationship maintainence as often as we think to so that we can work through the bigger blow-ups with minimal damage. It may be weird, but it works.

We've talked about moving in together. I insist upon a two bedroom home, at the very least. I need my cave-time, even from the person I'm closest to in the whole wide world.



julietsierra -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/11/2007 6:21:56 AM)

We don't raise our voices with each other. Hate is not a word that's part of our vocabulary. We discuss what's bothering us. When things begin to get heated, we table the discussion until we are better able to continue the discussion.

Admittedly, this takes a long time to work through difficulties. That, to us, is a good thing. Far too much is expected to be settled in too short of a time in most instances, and what that translates to is each person needing to win rather than both people working through something. Nothing is stuffed. Nothing is given up on. Eventually, it gets discussed.

I come from a pretty violent marriage and before that, a pretty volitile family. I hated every bit of that way of dealing with things. It made me sick to my stomach to the point where if it was happening in the house, I was in the bathroom being physically ill. It would take me days and sometimes weeks to recover from each argument.

When I met my Master, I enjoyed him and our time together tremendously, but it wasn't until the first time we had a discussion that could have erupted into a knock down drag out screaming match - and didn't - that I realized I could trust him.

The day I say I hate someone is the day they are no longer a part of my life. Hate generates hate and giving that voice is to affirm that feeling. I simply refuse to go there.

juliet



simply4You -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/11/2007 7:13:10 AM)

Greetings,

i could see saying 'i hate what You're doing to ___' (to me, Yourself, etc.) or 'i hate how ____ makes me feel',  but not 'i hate You'.  For me though, i'm really careful about my words and how they effect others.  When i'm angry, i can spar and hurt You like no other ... been there, done that.  Is it healthy?  No.  Because by that point ... if i'm so angry that i'm doing nothing but trying to hurt someOne else with my words ... then i also know that i'll end up being irrational and overly emotional and that whatever is said back to me, will more than likely be taken wrong.

Sometimes it is best to just walk away, cool off, and think.  Then return to the conversation.  i do agree that it is never good to just keep things bottled up inside.  

~ simply_me 



Wildfleurs -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/11/2007 7:13:41 AM)

Using FR...

My owner and I have had disagreements that have definitely gotten to the elevated voice level.  I wouldn't say we've had straight out yelling back and forth fights.  What our default reactions are that we both retreat and just don't talk to each other for a few days, and then usually I try to make an overture towards him (although sometimes he is the one that reaches out).  But I would never tell him that I hate him because its not true and its just hurtful.  I also don't believe in name calling in disagreements.  I try to start sentences, even in the midst of a disagreement with, "I feel" and when we are at the point of resolution, I find touch very helpful in keeping things productive.

C~



jauntyone -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/11/2007 7:16:13 AM)

Greetings
 
While I sometimes feel like screaming and fighting against what I feel, it would never be tolerated by Master. Not even in the playful sense that you are suggesting.
 
On a more personal note; why would I tell Master that I hate him? I love him dearly and to say such would be a lie. I may at times think that 'I hate  what he makes me feel or do' but would never hate him.
 
I wish you well
 
melissa



CreativeDominant -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/11/2007 7:42:08 AM)

There are going to be discussions and heated discussions and disagreements and arguments.  I think that, especially in the beginning, there is bound to be some as you are trying to learn what the other is trying to say, to show that you hear them and yet...coming from the dominant side...making it clear that you are not going to budge on certain areas.  That is why patience is most important in the beginning and yet...ironically...because it is the beginning and people feel they are under no obligation (because it is not a relationship yet...is it?) to behave in any way other than the way they feel, that very-needed thing...patience...is often not there.

I would not say I hate you to anyone...there are many things I dislike about my ex and I can say that there are plenty of times I dislike her...but she is the mother of my UMs and made my life good for quite a few years.  Yes, she made it hell for a few years too and nearly destroyed my business...but I don't hate her, I hate her actions.  I've never been fond of name-calling either...why can't you just tell someone that they are being stubborn without calling them a stubborn ASS?  Why can't you tell them that they are being hypocritical and point out examples of it without calling them a hypocritical BITCH?

Another peeve along this line is throwing up past actions.  It is one thing when those past actions are being repeated...it is another thing when those actions have no part in what is going on, you know in your rational mind that they don't and yet, you deliberately use your partner's past actions to wrongly color his/her actions today and then move on to justify your actions with your erroneous conclusion about theirs.

Words do wound.  Especially when used in the ways that have been noted on here by many.



drawntothedark -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/11/2007 7:52:48 AM)

I don't tell people that I hate them. I don't hate anyone. I may be disappointed or really pissed off but that doesn't equate hate. Hate is a very powerful word and I think most people do not get the true meaning of it. It's never okay to say IMO. Unless you truely mean it, and then, it's poison to body if you do.

As far as "lashing out" I have been guilty of it before. Mosty with my past nilla boyfriends. I have only truely lashed out a my Dom once (I think we found a deeply hidden trigger and it was a defence action not anger that I lashged out). He let me know emotions are fine but not to yell at him like that again. I felt awful about it, and try even harder now to hold my tounge. What can I say, I'm a work in progress.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/11/2007 7:56:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Passion357

...Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting, among Master and slaves...



in the four years we have been together, none of the above feelings or actions has happened between this slave and Master.
 
there is nothing to "hate" or "fight" about in our relationship, and this slave does not subscribe to the "you aren't human if you don't ____________(fill in the blank with hate others or self, fight with S/O, get jealous, wish you had the perfect body, express one's "dominant side", etc.)
 
kudos to you for finding a solution (separation of personal spaces within your household) to the problems of your relationship.



dawntreader -> RE: Saying "I hate you!", Name calling, and Fighting (4/11/2007 8:20:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Passion357

Master and I seperated our house about 8 months ago. I have my own room, bathroom, den, half of the office. He has his own bedroom, bathroom, den, half of the office.
We split the kitchen, dining room became workshop ( for leathercrafts, my candle making, foosball <sp?> table etc) and obviously split the office.
We have a formal living room and dining room, and a seperate den, that is how the split was so easy.



i can see the above being quite healthy and add excitement to a relationship as long as it isn't taken too far.
 
As far as the main point of this thread...i have always believed the power of the pen/spoken word is mighter than the sword, so i strive to use the weapon responsibly and fully aware of the consequences~



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