RE: Is Bush fucking crazy with the Z visa ? How to alienate immigrants with an inane plan

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RE: Is Bush fucking crazy with the Z visa ? How to alie... - 4/8/2007 6:35:44 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

Congress makes the laws concerning this.

Congress cannot legislate that which is not delegated to them via the Constitution.

I thought that they could make laws about anything that was not covered in the Bill of Rights or other parts of the constitution. Now I am not a constitutional lawyer, but I was under the impression that any law was ok as long as it did not abridge the constitution, an example of making laws that interfere with the constitution would be the War Powers Act.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 21

RE: Is Bush fucking crazy with the Z visa ? How to alie... - 4/8/2007 6:46:54 PM

lockedaway

Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline

You are joking, right? Start with the 14th Amendment. You know...wait a second. You can go through all of the extrapolations you want but I have a question for you; let's have YOU on defense. When was it legal to hire an illegal alien and what law permitted it?

(in reply to jj292)

Post #: 22

RE: Is Bush fucking crazy with the Z visa ? How to alie... - 4/8/2007 7:05:30 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

You do not have a RIGHT to work in this country if you are not a citizen. You may have a priviledge....but it is not a right.

Ahhh...I wondered if you were going there with that.
Then what is the difference between a right and a privilege? I realize there is one, but it is often quite blurred. For Me, especially in this instance...
I always view it as, if one has a right to something, it means a guarantee must be made available. For instance...the right to vote. One may choose not to exercize that right, but the guarantee of the polling place is there. I don't think I could necessarily same the same for a job. No one has to guarantee a job to anyone, citizen or not. If you qualify and you apply, and you are hired, then you have exercized your right to seek, find and maintain employment. So what of all the folks who claim there are no jobs avialable for which they qualify? What about their rights?
So I guess I never thought of having a job as a right. More of an opportunity one needs to make for oneself.
Language is a funny thing!

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 4/8/2007 7:07:29 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to lockedaway)

Post #: 23

RE: Is Bush fucking crazy with the Z visa ? How to alie... - 4/8/2007 7:07:35 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

Congress makes the laws concerning this.

Congress cannot legislate that which is not delegated to them via the Constitution.

I thought that they could make laws about anything that was not covered in the Bill of Rights or other parts of the constitution. Now I am not a constitutional lawyer, but I was under the impression that any law was ok as long as it did not abridge the constitution, an example of making laws that interfere with the constitution would be the War Powers Act.

9th Amendment: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

10th Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved for the States respectively, or to the people.

So... If it's not EXPLICITLY delegated by the Constitution, it's not their fucking job, and they shouldn't be wasting our fucking tax dollars on it.

Look at it this way: If it's IMPORTANT ENOUGH for the Feds to do it, it's IMPORTANT ENOUGH for an Amendment.

Want the Feds to be responsible for providing healthcare to everyone? Simply amend the Constitution.

Want the Feds to fight a Global War on Terror? Simply amend the Constitution.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 24

RE: Is Bush fucking crazy with the Z visa ? How to alie... - 4/8/2007 7:09:51 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

You do not have a RIGHT to work in this country if you are not a citizen. You may have a priviledge....but it is not a right.

Hmm.. So a "Right to Labor" isn't one of the unenumerated rights referenced by the Declaration of Independence, and/or the 9th Amendment?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to lockedaway)

Post #: 25

RE: Is Bush fucking crazy with the Z visa ? How to alie... - 4/8/2007 7:20:04 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

You do not have a RIGHT to work in this country if you are not a citizen. You may have a priviledge....but it is not a right.

Hmm.. So a "Right to Labor" isn't one of the unenumerated rights referenced by the Declaration of Independence, and/or the 9th Amendment?

I don't disagree. But then I would day that we have given this "right" to someone, on a limited basis. Not a privilege.
By saying that no one has the right to work in this country unless they are a citizen can be very misleading. And there are people who do not have the right to work. As an example, the spouses of a foreign employee. One may be given the right to have a job while here, but the other (spouse) as well as other family members are specifically told they may not work. They are not given the right.
As I said, language is a funny thing.

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 4/8/2007 7:21:07 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 26

RE: Is Bush fucking crazy with the Z visa ? How to alie... - 4/8/2007 7:25:15 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

"They are not given the right. "

It is less that a PERSON doesn't have a "Right to Work", than an Artificial Legal Entity ( a Company ) doesn't have the Privilege of hiring whoever they want. The COMPANY must file the I-9 form.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

Post #: 27

RE: Is Bush fucking crazy with the Z visa ? How to alie... - 4/8/2007 7:29:59 PM

Tuomas

Posts: 242
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline

So, we have illegals being deported, and a bunch of people are concerned about the rich? I find it amazing how when an issue about poverty comes up, certain people start hollering about how the "rich will get their money anyway".... So what? Aren't you supposed to be caring about the poor?

Anyway, why don't you Americans adopt the same laws we have here in this Latin America. You need residency to work. You have to apply for residency, after owning property in the country. In other words, you aren't showing up penniless. If not, the police have no problems with "alienating" people by giving them the boot. Plain and simple. But, we all know Americans are not good at learning from Latinos

*sits back to bask in his awesome country*

(in reply to lockedaway)

Post #: 28

RE: Is Bush fucking crazy with the Z visa ? How to alie... - 4/9/2007 2:26:40 PM

SirDiscipliner69

Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

• Bush immigration plan overview

http://www.collarchat.com/m_944537/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#944537
Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

< Message edited by SirDiscipliner69 -- 4/9/2007 2:35:21 PM >

(in reply to lockedaway)

Post #: 29

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