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RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/26/2007 6:46:16 AM

Cuckme4Life

Posts: 168
Joined: 7/8/2005
From: MentallyDeranged,Tn.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

What prevents the father from staying home with the children?

go rent the movie "Mr Mom" starring Michael Keaton and get back to the bulletin afterwards LOL
1) do not make grilled cheese with an iron
2) tykes in diapers are not to be fed chili
3) Earl!! Clean up in aisle 9!!!!!
i can go on and on here but everyone gets the idea pretty quick

this post is meant to be tongue in cheek, not to be taken seriously

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Post #: 21

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/26/2007 6:51:13 AM

LadyEllen

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From: Stourport-England
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Totally agree TJ - problem is that society as a whole doesnt and the economy especially doesnt when even now, thirty years after equal pay legislation, women still receive on average 10% less in wages than men for the same work. Even the tax and benefit system here is predicated on the notion that men work to support a family, whilst women either look after children, work because they want to or work for "pin money". And this after a female prime minister in the early 80s.

Real life example. There was a guy in a client company - he was our point of contact. When he and his wife had a baby, they decided he would stay at home and she go back to work. The automatic assumption was that he must be gay and his wife was another guy and they'd adopted. It takes a lot of backbone for any man to stand up to that sort of cultural response.

E

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Post #: 22

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/26/2007 6:53:20 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
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From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuckme4Life

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

What prevents the father from staying home with the children?

go rent the movie "Mr Mom" starring Michael Keaton and get back to the bulletin afterwards LOL
1) do not make grilled cheese with an iron
2) tykes in diapers are not to be fed chili
3) Earl!! Clean up in aisle 9!!!!!
i can go on and on here but everyone gets the idea pretty quick

this post is meant to be tongue in cheek, not to be taken seriously

I'd hope so, although I have come across plenty of fathers who make awful mothers! Personally, I think its deliberate - like the whole "I cant work the washing machine dear" thing - designed to get the woman to do it!

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Post #: 23

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/26/2007 7:00:20 AM

dommalemn

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LadyEllen

Yes there is differences in the way that woman and males run things.

No it isn’t that one has to run according to a male framework. But the male and female are different. Male run things and are stimulated by Respect. Ware as a woman it more motivated by Love and caring.

As far as all being human and falling into a stereo type of doing the same thing in the same circumstances that is normally incorrect. But when you are competing as you say you are going after the same people. Which was primarily males in the past. The male prefers a company that is more geared toward the gained respect that a company has. (that is why the aggressiveness in the company) Now on the other hand if you go after a more female targeted marketing you have to go after the more caring side. …. So if you are on the more caring side and not as aggressive the male will see that as weakness and not have the respect and not buy. Yet the female will see the caring and be more inclined to buy. So you are doing things different and have different target groups, or you play the same game and go after the same cliants.

For success you need to look at your market. Lets use a truck for an example. They show how tough the truck is… (a male can see this and respect that it is built to take a lot, and that he will be respected for buying a truck that tough) so that has the man sold on the truck, but the female says I don’t care about that. So they show you the inside(changed big time in the 80’s to get more woman to buy) see how nice and plush the interior is (most males I know take about a week to destroy a plush seat in a truck). This is for the female so that they feel cared for and pampered. And there goes tour strategy on how to get both males and females to buy. Look for ways to show how it will bring respect to the males and make the females feel like you care for them.

dommalemn

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Post #: 24

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/26/2007 7:11:23 AM

LadyEllen

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From: Stourport-England
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Interesting stuff Dommalemn!

I'd say that I definitely go for the female side of things on that basis; my company provides transport services and my sales pitch is ever geared to how well we look after the client with updates and exception reports and how friendly we are, stressing also the value of our people as qualified and capable to help the client.

My competitors meanwhile are ever about the harder aspects you mention; how they are quicker, cheaper, bigger and so on. (Actually theyre not as its all legally regulated such that no one has advantage!).

But I do have a secret weapon in my transport manager - 40 years man and boy in the industry, and most definitely the best in the industry. He definitely runs things male fashion, and though not to my taste, he gets results that cant be argued with!

I wonder if its that male/female combined approach in how we do business that makes us successful?

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Post #: 25

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/26/2007 7:22:40 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
Just to really rile up any feminists reading this read - my ambition has always been to stay at home and look after the kids and keep house...! Its what I was brought up to do, despite my birth sex, and its what I enjoy doing. But I'll never have the chance to do that, because irregardless of gender change, I'm expected to make the money.

I suppose, though I cant be said to be typical or average in any way, it shows that the gender trap can work both ways.

E

Not all feminists fall into that trap :)

I'm not sure why you feel trapped, but depending on the relationship you choose for yourself and the financial independence you have, it certainly can happen.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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Post #: 26

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/26/2007 7:47:47 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dommalemn

LadyEllen

Yes there is differences in the way that woman and males run things.

No it isn’t that one has to run according to a male framework. But the male and female are different. Male run things and are stimulated by Respect. Ware as a woman it more motivated by Love and caring.

As far as all being human and falling into a stereo type of doing the same thing in the same circumstances that is normally incorrect. But when you are competing as you say you are going after the same people. Which was primarily males in the past. The male prefers a company that is more geared toward the gained respect that a company has. (that is why the aggressiveness in the company) Now on the other hand if you go after a more female targeted marketing you have to go after the more caring side. …. So if you are on the more caring side and not as aggressive the male will see that as weakness and not have the respect and not buy. Yet the female will see the caring and be more inclined to buy. So you are doing things different and have different target groups, or you play the same game and go after the same cliants.

For success you need to look at your market. Lets use a truck for an example. They show how tough the truck is… (a male can see this and respect that it is built to take a lot, and that he will be respected for buying a truck that tough) so that has the man sold on the truck, but the female says I don’t care about that. So they show you the inside(changed big time in the 80’s to get more woman to buy) see how nice and plush the interior is (most males I know take about a week to destroy a plush seat in a truck). This is for the female so that they feel cared for and pampered. And there goes tour strategy on how to get both males and females to buy. Look for ways to show how it will bring respect to the males and make the females feel like you care for them.

dommalemn

I disagree. Your statements are too broad and all encompassing. You assume that no woman is motivated by real value nor earning and being treated with respect.

Your assumptions are deeply flawed.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Post #: 27

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/26/2007 7:53:06 AM

LadyEllen

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From: Stourport-England
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I think I know what youre saying LA, but the UK just doesnt work that way. As the father I'm expected by the courts not to have custody (or necessarily even visiting rights) but I am expected to pay to feed, clothe and house my children - and by association my ex too - and any new guy she has live with her. Were my ex a crack addict selling herself on the streets, then its more than likely even in those circumstances that she would get custody, and failing that the kids would be taken into care - the chances of a father getting custody are low to zero. Had the relationship broken down because she was having sex with every guy in the street, her default would have no bearing whatever on the outcome of any hearing - although of course were the situation reversed, then the man would be judged harshly.

As things are, my ex and I have good relations still, so much of that scenario doesnt apply to me - though there are thousands of fathers up and down the UK to whom it does apply, because the family courts here are stuck with the notion that man = bad and man = wage earner, regardless of the circumstances in most cases, whilst woman = good and woman = dependant. I see this as an over compensation for the previous way things like divorces were handled, whereby things were tilted unfairly in the man's favour, but it needs urgent redressing, not only because of the social problems this approach is causing and the many suicides of fathers over the way they are treated, but also because if we are to hold that sex equality means anything, then it must apply also in the family court and cases must be judged on their individual merits, not on some outdated notion of how society is and on male and female stereotypes that simply dont apply.

Even if, and its a big if, I managed to find a wealthy guy who would support me to stay at home, I would still be expected to contribute financially to my children's welfare and pursued relentlessly to do so. No decent father has a problem with supporting his children of course, but the system here is so full of bureaucracy, inefficiency and incompetence that it cannot be relied upon to achieve that - which is why my ex and I have a private arrangement. Google the CSA (Child Support Agency) to find out just how well the whole thing is managed by government. I would have to pay, regardless of any inability to pay and giving up work is not an excuse - only if the unemployment is forced by redundancy would one have a hope of escaping - and in that case the state pays for my children, but at a significantly lower rate than it deemed by way of the CSA was necessary. Meanwhile, the deadbeat dads for whom the CSA was set up in the first place, escape by default.

Should I win the lottery, then the family court will say that half at least of my winnings must go to my ex. Meanwhile when she inherits her parents' estate sometime in the next ten years I estimate, I will not be entitled to any of it. It is these kinds of glaring inequities that need correcting, and urgently. There is no equality, where one side is treated more favourably and more sympathetically because of prejudicial notions, and as the saying goes one must take the rough with the smooth. It does nothing to advance the cause of women's inequality in other areas of life, for them to abandon the advances made and appeal to a family court as the natural victim of male oppression and seek redress based on a carefully crafted pathetic stereotype that does not apply, in order to manipulate the system unfairly.

My first chance at what I'd like to do will come paradoxically, only when my kids are old enough that they no longer need anyone in that role. Its a waste, it truly is, and meanwhile I must spend my time working when my heart isnt in it, to meet obligations which but for my birth sex, would never be placed upon me.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Post #: 28

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/26/2007 7:54:13 AM

dommalemn

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Well in answer to the mister mom deal, that is what I became. And yes in doing so there was a lot of lost respect. And yes my ex saw it as a sign of weakness. And yes that was the end. In her terms to make the choice to put the family first was to be “gayafied). But that is in the past and when you end up with 2 rugrats you do become the mother and the dad.

Know to the subject of the differences in the parenting of rugrats. The female is the caring of the two. If someone gets hurt it is oh let me kiss it and make it better, the males response is more of the here is a bandage stop the bleeding and go play. It is not that he dose not care or love but his mind works off of respect not love. So to deal with it in a more loving way it needs to be more of a planned thing.

An other thing that woman don’t take into consideration is that most men think compartmentaly . For those that don’t know what that is it is when each task or group of tasks has its own block of total attention. An example would be the guy not that long ago that took and forgot to drop off his rugrat at daycare. The wife always did it and this day they thought that it was better for him to do it on this day. But when he got into the car his mind went from home family mode to work mode. Now on a normal day this is good because he would not be in a mind struggle with work and what needed to be done at home, But on this day it was deadly to his rugrat.

Now the female most of the time dose not have this option. She heads off to work and she is thinking about what is going to be made for dinner that night. What they will have two days from that day. If you were to toss in a distraction would she remember it tell it was completed but she would for years. A female can be doing the laundry, cooking a meal, cleaning the kitchen and watching the rugrats all at the same time.(good multitasking, thinking of multi things at the same time) But to the male mind they become different tasks and each has its own place in the mind and different concentration times. (go from one thought to the next)

Can a male and female do the same things to raise the rugrat? The answer is yes they can. Is the approach and way it is done the same? No Will the wellbeing of the rugrat be the same? definitely not

Dommalemn

(in reply to dommalemn)

Post #: 29

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/26/2007 8:03:35 AM

LadyEllen

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From: Stourport-England
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I'd like to disagree with your description of male vs female parenting and male vs female thought processes, but I guess I'm not really able to comment! I can multi-task with the best of them, and give my attention totally to one item to the exclusion of all else, depending on the situation.

I think though that maybe youre identifying general tendencies, rather than saying that all males are one way and all females are another way? Its best to indicate that in posts of this nature, otherwise you can expect the burners to be lit beneath you in pretty short order!

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to dommalemn)

Post #: 30

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/26/2007 8:53:04 AM

dommalemn

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LaTigresse

I may have been a bit broad in my statement. There are differences in people and to say all would be very unfair.

You said
You assume that no woman is motivated by real value nor earning and being treated with respect.

I was not talking about value. To better make my point. Ford in the 1980’s introduced a f100 pickup to its line. It looked like the f150 but it had better interior and it had a load capacity of one half of the f150(f150 was one half ton the f100 was a quarter ton rating) The f100 had the running gear of a ford LTD . When this came about truck sales almost doubled. Value is in the eye of the beholder.

Earnings are the way the world tries to set what your time is worth. Yes everyone wants to make the most bucks. The guy can say that he it respected by the people around him to the level of $xxx . And the female can say that she is love so much that she is getting $xxx. Earnings are not what I was talking about it was the feeling that motivates someone.

And last everyone that you meet should be treated with respect because they could one day be your customer. But if I was to come up to a woman (there are a few that would be different) and say you should buy this truck because your friend will think that you made the best choice in getting this truck, And they will want you to teach them how to buy a truck. They would be headed to an other sales person. But if I used something like Oh Tigress your girl friends will just love this new truck. Look at all the nice features that it has will make them just love it

stereo typing at its best or worst

And yes everyone wants to play the game of work and be the most loved or the most respected, but in the end we all die and it is not what the game of work got us that mattes it is the way the next generation is taught to view the game. What is the most important the dollar or thew people that are living in the world (most importantly your family).

Hope that this helps to clear things up.

Dommalemn

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Post #: 31

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/26/2007 9:14:30 AM

LaTigresse

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No, because you are still making assumptions. Obviously the women and men you know fit a very narrow criteria. I don't and many people I know do not.

I am not worth $$ because I am loved or not. I am worth $$ because I manage a company with all male employees well and cost effectively. Our customers like me because I make sure we back up our promises not because I love them or them me. I cannot think of one of them I "love" or want to give hugs to.

I wouldn't own a Ford because they are built for shit. Even now my trusty Dodge trucks are turning into wussiemobiles. If I want a luxury car I would buy one. I buy a truck to do a job.

P.S. The next time I have to go truck shopping, if a salesPERSON had the audacity to tell me I needed X truck because my girlfriends would love it.......they would NOT be selling me anything.

I am not a rare woman. I know many women that also do not fit your narrow box. Yes, there are many men and women that do but I will not accept your perceptions as a broad factual statement of all or even most.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 3/26/2007 9:16:49 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to dommalemn)

Post #: 32

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/26/2007 9:53:55 AM

LadyEllen

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From: Stourport-England
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I think dommalemn is talking stereotypes and stereotyping here LaT, mainly as they are applied to men and women rather than as they might typify themselves broadly or identify themselves individually.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 33

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/26/2007 10:05:08 AM

dommalemn

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LaTigress

Yes I don’t drive ford but they were the ones that started the downslide of the truck industry. Ford seen the opportunity to move more truck to the frilly market and they jumped on it. (I have two ’77 and a ’74 dodge, In the ‘80’s dodge stated to loose market share to ford so they had to go fluffy to compete) And yes not everyone fits into a cookie cutter way of doing things.

So you run your business for the respect point of it. So tomorrow you could go to work and say that you are cutting all wages by 10% and that all Product size will be cut by 5%. And if the company made a bigger profit and all other companies started to do it your way that you could feed off the feeling of being respected by your competing companies as you see your employees taking second jobs to feed there family.
That is what is and will continue to happen in the years to come if the economy is not corrected.

And yes most (to say all would be way to broad) females would have way to much caring for the employees under her to walk through there and have a smile on their face and a pep talk for the workers.
Yes men would have compassion for them and wish that their workers had better pay but it would be more balanced by the respect of the composition. How right or wrong that is.

And yes I know Females that are not motivated by caring. When we were in court she walked up to the front and told the judge that she didn’t want the rugrats.

But there is a big enough market out there that dose like the fluff that big companies go after it.

I know that to say that everyone is the same would never work. And your point was made with the release of the hummer (original) it didn’t have much frills and there was a a small female market. So yes there are the woman out there that don’t care if they are liked as long as they are respected by their peers

Oh the now I got the song “an other brick in the wall going through my head.

Dommalemn

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 34

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/26/2007 10:20:35 AM

thetammyjo

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Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Totally agree TJ - problem is that society as a whole doesnt and the economy especially doesnt when even now, thirty years after equal pay legislation, women still receive on average 10% less in wages than men for the same work. Even the tax and benefit system here is predicated on the notion that men work to support a family, whilst women either look after children, work because they want to or work for "pin money". And this after a female prime minister in the early 80s.

Real life example. There was a guy in a client company - he was our point of contact. When he and his wife had a baby, they decided he would stay at home and she go back to work. The automatic assumption was that he must be gay and his wife was another guy and they'd adopted. It takes a lot of backbone for any man to stand up to that sort of cultural response.

E

I recall a study a few years back in the USA where families were asked about why certain members worked.

Necessity was the number one answer.

For many Americans at least they feel that both spouses need to work to maintain the type of standard of living they want. If they were willing to live with less or one of the lucky few were one spouse makes a lot then one parent staying home was more possible.

I think we get to focused on offspring.

Take my parents now in their late 70s. They bought into the entire "man supports family" concept. Most of their years were rough financially because "no wife of mine will work" was their guiding principal. Now they can barely make ends meet. If my mother had kept her job after marriage I think she would be more healthy physically and emotionally and I know they would be better off financially.

Given what they know now, they have each told me that it was a poor decision they made. If they could do it over she would have had at least a part-time job and gone fulltime once the offspring were in school.

That said each spouse/parent needs to remember that their marriage is the foundation not the offspring who will only be there in need of direct care for a part of their lives. You have to find the balance in your life and think long-term.

_____________________________

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And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 35

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/26/2007 10:28:08 AM

thetammyjo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I'd like to disagree with your description of male vs female parenting and male vs female thought processes, but I guess I'm not really able to comment! I can multi-task with the best of them, and give my attention totally to one item to the exclusion of all else, depending on the situation.

I think though that maybe youre identifying general tendencies, rather than saying that all males are one way and all females are another way? Its best to indicate that in posts of this nature, otherwise you can expect the burners to be lit beneath you in pretty short order!

E

It's also a huge matter of how you are raised and your individual personality.

My husband's father was both parents after mom died. He had no problem multitasking and being caring; heck he's far better than the later stepparent was at both these. He had to learn and he did.

The problem is that even though he did these things he didn't explain or train his sons except by example. So the husband has difficulty multitasking.

On the other hand my slave's father worked from home. Both his parents had him help and explained what they were doing -- both are caring and can multitask -- and this taught him how to do things and how to juggle things.

You don't know how to do these things innately -- how could someone know what to vacuum or how before there was ever a vacuum? You learn either by watching or by directly being taught. It's best of you have both.

In terms of domestic matters little girls tend to get both -- little boy may only have one. Vice versa for other matters.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 36

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/26/2007 10:38:13 AM

dommalemn

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so know it comes down to the fact is this talk comming from a point of you wanting the respect of the dom/mes and sub/slaves (or what their choice of title is) on here or because you care about the subjuct that you are talking about. Can you say win lose or draw that you got the point that you care about made.

Do you wander how this is going to effect the level of respect you will have?

Do you care if you made a point and that people will not respect you more or less but the point you care about was made?

All I did was make you think and you chose witch one you wanted. (yes there is no clear cut answer if there was we wouldn't be doing this).People generally float between the two but it but it dose make you think what your motive is.

Dommalemn

(in reply to dommalemn)

Post #: 37

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/26/2007 10:41:03 AM

domiguy

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Interesting people...here is a more recent article on these folks

http://www.chinaculture.org/gb/en_curiosity/2005-09/22/content_73192_5.htm

_____________________________

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Post #: 38

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/29/2007 9:18:19 PM

pinksissyPA

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Well said and ellucidated Ma'am

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 39

RE: Female dominated culture.... - 3/29/2007 9:28:55 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
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From: Domme Emeritus
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This seems like the way it SHOULD be all over...but without the tourists.

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I'm not inflatable.

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Post #: 40

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