RE: Difference of Opinions?

RE: Difference of Opinions? (Full Version)

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Bearlee -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 9:30:38 AM)
Wow, what a juicy thread! Thank you. Unfortunately, we don’t know about what the couple argues. If it is about politics or if it is Cab or Merlot that tastes better or if the ending of a book was ‘adequate’…I’d think ‘debate’ would be healthy, and the learning experience someone mentioned. Of course, if a D/s couple is arguing about the lack of risk inherent in breath-play or sharing partners with best friends, or that it really doesn’t matter if a whip wraps; there could be serious trouble. It seems to me that on one hand, a submissive and a Dominant can agree to disagree but there always needs to be respect. If beliefs are opposed on such things as safety, integrity…trust; then how could there be respect? I am encouraged to speak up about anything. If something troubles me about what is going on then I ask. I do not always agree with why he does things…but I pretty much believe it is not my business. Oddly, I believe it’s my business to ‘know’…but I just don’t have to agree. It’s only my business to obey. Perhaps it is ‘easier’ for me because I’m much like Julia in that I do not date people diametrically opposed to my basic belief system. I don’t date Christians or Republicans either…nor people with young kids, for that matter. Or smokers, LOL Perhaps this is how I keep that ‘…he’ll change’ thang outta my way! I have no interest in changing the one I’m with (as if it were possible, anyway)…so arguing about the difficult stuff just doesn’t happen. If it did, I’d have to walk…it most certainly would affect my submission. bear

agirl -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 9:42:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister i think its just a compatibility issue, like many of you said. She and i spoke about it as one of their recent arguements had to do with me. They were discussing me, my pregnancy came up, and the fact that i failed the first gestational diabetes test. His response was along the lines of "there is no such thing as gestational diabetes". So i'm thinking that the majority of their conflicts come from things not based on debatable topics. Like she's never said "we disagreed on what a sub is". Of course, it being a compatibility issue doesnt really give her any tools to deal with it. LOL i really liked what you said dorei and i will definetly pass that on. IMO a very wise answer. Focus, while i agree that argueing or debating can release hostilility - yet in this situation it seems to only create them. thank you all for your opinions/advice Well, If he's just spouting nonsense from the top of his head, without actually knowing, then I really wouldn't argue. It wouldn't be the disparity in knowledge that would irritate me, but sticking slavishly to a point without the facts, would. I call that bickering, the mighty eater of respect. agirl

thetammyjo -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 10:07:57 AM)
Last night I expressed some disappointment with Fox and he explained his reasoning behind his behavior. He spoke to me simply and without emotion, giving the information I needed. I agreed that I had taken the issue in question too personally and causing myself undo stress. He never once suggested I took it too personally and he never raised his voice; he was submissive to my decision on the matter. Of course, he isn't my submissive he is my slave. Perhaps that changes things. If we have disagreements about something that is a task he is assigned or what we are doing, it is my job to make the decision and his to to give me information and follow my decision. I would not keep someone in my household who argued with me and tried to change my mind when I have made a decision.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 10:40:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo If we have disagreements about something that is a task he is assigned or what we are doing, it is my job to make the decision and his to to give me information and follow my decision. I would not keep someone in my household who argued with me and tried to change my mind when I have made a decision. While I agree with this, I think giving someone information such as "I think you're taking this personally" can be totally acceptable and definitely relevant. I'm also fine with an owner saying "Yes I'm taking it personally, now shut up and do it."

TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 11:12:03 AM)
To the OP...I have read much of what has been said here and although there are some points I agree with..sometimes, even if you agree to disagree, there are issues in any relationship where it cannot be left to that point.Where an agreement or a decision has to be met.Now of course if there is no time constraint then maybe walking away from the issue for a small amount of time would be wise in order to reflect and cool.But then you must get back together and open back up those lines of communication,get a resoluton to the issue..Now, yes I know ,as we all do, that ultimately it is the Dominant to make a final decision in regards to whatever.But maybe your friend feels as if her Dominants decisions never, ever ,reflects her input, thoughts, values ..whatever..and thus made to feel not a part of that relationship.In some ways I can see where a submissive may feel disheartened by this, and not feel very "submissive"when you feel you contribute nothing to the relationship, but possibly as a bedpartner or a housekeeper, then you could end up feeling depressed, worthless,and less than....Possibly they need to work on their inherent relationship...delve deeper into the causation of these arguments,and find out what the real problem truly is.... to break all I have said down to a word ,as per usual,...COMMUNICATION.....Tempting

ownedgirlie -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 11:13:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross I'm also fine with an owner saying "Yes I'm taking it personally, now shut up and do it." LOL yep, I've heard that before. But I also agree with TammyJo in that I am required to state my case peacefully and without drama. I learned he hears me much better that way anyway, funny how that works.

disciplinedslave -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 11:22:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister I got into a convo the other day with a girl (who identifies as a sub - although i dont think that matters much) about some of the trials of her submission. Basically, it seems the issue is, is that her and her Dom dont see eye to eye on alot of things. They end up in disagreements alot and at times she gets really frustrated. I dont think its an all the time occurance, so its not like the two of them are combating alot - but from what i gathered its just random frustrations. She said is that it greatly affects her ability to submit during these times. From what i gathered, is that when the two of them argue (or whatever you want to call it) - with the feelings it leaves her, she cant continue to submit because it puts her in a "standoffish" place. (as best she could describe). Otherwise the submission and the two of them are fine.... except for these set backs. She asked what i suggested and honestly i havent a clue. I dont know if its an overall relationship problem, a problem with her, or what? Not sure what to tell her on how to solve the problem so they can stop having set backs. (other then of course to just suck it up and ignore it - which imo doesnt seem like the best advice to me) So i'm curious - when other couples argue, or debate, or have a difference of opionon - does it affect you as a sub/slave and your submission? (P.S. i know you cant always agree.) If it does, how do you deal with it? For the Dom's - if you have an arguement, debate, difference of opionon and you see that your sub/slaves view point is greatly different from yours and you see that she is frustrated with Your view point.. does it affect her.. alter her submission?? If it does, how do you deal with it? hello devilslilsister, no it doesn't affect my ability to submit to my master. i am still his slave and it is not my place to decide that i dont want to submit at any given moment. just because something that he says or does doesn't sit well with me i can't just say " well you dont agree with me so i am not going to obey you" as a slave i dont have that right nor do i want that right. i live to make my master happy, and to do that i must submit to him no matter what i may think about something he says or does. now that doesnt mean that i can't talk to him when the moment is right and tell him how i feel about something, but i still have to stay in my place. so to answer your question, no it doesn't affect my ability to submit to my master at all. submissively diciplinedslave

MasterNdorei -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 3:40:53 PM)
i am honored others can relate to my post. It is powerful to live it. Great thread. i am enjoying all the responses. Master's dorei

LadyHugs -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 3:51:48 PM)
Dear Devilslilsister, Ladies and Gentlemen; In my mind's eyes I see, even the most perfect relationship will have ripples of unhappy exchanges, disagreements and or passionate debates and or arguements. What is important is the ability to fully and completely communicate. That said, if said 'disagreements and or arguements' became physical, mentally, emotionally and or spiritually harmful, then its time to part ways. There is, in my mind's eyes, a civil way to make a point or state a case. My preferences would be without the yelling, raised voices, gestures that would be seen as 'in my face,' and or intimidating. But, slaves of mine would not argue with my decision but, they would make a 'factual' explaination as to bring their 'mind's eyes' that are contrary to mine, proffered in a respectful manner. If I am satisfied I will see if the slave's methods work. I will give a benefit of a doubt. It is also fact, that how people see things will never be a perfect match. At times its the road to the common conclusion is different and results are the same. Another thing I appreciate, is not making an arguement, disagreement and such personal. Attacking the facts I can accept much better than making it personal. Even though there might be a tendency to feel that it is indeed a personal attack, the long term personal history in the relationship that makes it clear that the person is never to be attacked but, facts, subjects of the debate, situations and such is understandable as it effects/affects us in the relationship. Just some thoughts. Respectfully submitted for consideration, Lady Hugs

Devilslilsister -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 6:33:44 PM)
quote: Well, If he's just spouting nonsense from the top of his head, without actually knowing, then I really wouldn't argue. It wouldn't be the disparity in knowledge that would irritate me, but sticking slavishly to a point without the facts, would. I call that bickering, the mighty eater of respect. agirl Aaaaahhh - bickering. i've oddly never known the excat definition of the word. So, i've a question Agirl, would situations like this give you trouble in your submission? Would it give you trouble in obeying? If it did, how would you handle it? If it happened more then once, twice, trice? How would you go about holding up your end of the relationship? Would you turn a blind eye?

DiurnalVampire -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 6:40:33 PM)
Angel and I butt heads. Its bound to happen. Sometims, depending on the conversation it happens in, it can affect his submission. If he gets really riled up about something that we have argued about, he just cannot relax and submit. I dont see it as a setback or a problem. It just, well, it just is. We have gotten in disagreements where I havent realy felt like giving him what he wanted afterwards and wouldnt put him down into subspace either... it goes both ways. If they dont see eye to eye on some topics, unless they are related to the BDSM, they should just avoid talking about that while they are playing. Sometimes, its all about timing. I know better than to discuss religion or music with Angel if I am in the mood to play sometime that day, since those are the two topics he gets passionate enough about to get angry, and if he gets angry he cannot submit. If the frusteration of BDSM related topics is that major, they need to talk about it and figure out what can be fixed and what is beyond hope and why. Not everyone sees eye to eye on everything, and smetiems there is no hapy medium to be had. DV

Sunshine119 -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 6:47:01 PM)
Like Mercnbeth, we also have greatly divergent political and philosophical standings. I am a socialist, pacifist, he is a conservative who strongly believes in the theory that "might makes right". He makes Rush Limbaugh look like a wimpy liberal. Once, over about two years ago, I questioned whether or not it was possible to stay as a submissive in this kind of relationship when there was no evidence (nor desire) for either of us to change our own stance on these issues. The kinds of responses I received led me to understand why so many people keep searching for "their one". I was told to get out, this relationship could never work. Some wrote me about the "abusiviness" of those damn conservatives. What I did realize is that both He and I would never come to agreement in regards to a ton of issues. But....what I also learned is that we are passionate about our views and love to argue politics and philosophy. If we are looking for people exactly like ourselves, we will never find that image outside the mirror. If we are willing to be with those, who may enrage us occassionally with their views, but whom we love, adore and cherish........ Break the mirror! Sunshine

thetammyjo -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 8:10:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross I'm also fine with an owner saying "Yes I'm taking it personally, now shut up and do it." LOL yep, I've heard that before. But I also agree with TammyJo in that I am required to state my case peacefully and without drama. I learned he hears me much better that way anyway, funny how that works. Dealing with me it is best to be calm and peaceful. I have an almost natural tendancy to escalate if voices are raised to me and I don't back down from a fight. However being calm and rather unemotional with me means I have to think about the words that are being said and not about the attitude behind them. I'm then very likely to see if I've been wrong or too emotionally involved with some issue. I never taught Fox this but he's a good man and he is observant plus he all ready came to me with the attitude that a good slave does not "talk back" to his owner. Of course when he is emotionally upset he does show it but that rarely happens between us and is more likely a non-us situation. He's not perfect, I'm not perfect, we never told each other we were, but we have learned how to deal with each other. With other people it might now work this way.

losttreasure -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 9:30:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sunshine119 If we are looking for people exactly like ourselves, we will never find that image outside the mirror. This time last year, I might have agreed with you wholeheartedly... today, however, I do not. While I agree that no two people will be exactly alike, I was floored when I met FirmhandKY... aside from the fundamental differences in gender and role, we are so much alike, we've often joked about being lost twins. After eleven months together, we've yet to find anything that we disagree on. Admittedly, that's not much time in the grand scheme of things, but we are both big on communication so there's been a lot of it. Because we've never disagreed, I can't really address the op. I suppose I've yet to be challenged in that way, so I'm not sure it would affect my submissiveness nor do I know how I would deal with it... though I don't imagine it would pose an insurmountable problem. Sure, we have our differences. He likes coffee; I don't... I have interests that he's not excited about. There are differing viewpoints and opinions that we've shared with each other but those things don't require consensus, only openness to empathy. They aren't diametrically opposed ideas... merely ones from a different perspective. What we learn from each other allows us to relate even more and growth of that understanding brings us even closer. We're not mirror images, but I could never have imagined two people more alike. Twins, we're not... We're soul mates. [:)]

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