Difference of Opinions? (Full Version)

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Devilslilsister -> Difference of Opinions? (3/23/2007 11:28:53 PM)

I got into a convo the other day with a girl (who identifies as a sub - although i dont think that matters much) about some of the trials of her submission.  Basically, it seems the issue is, is that her and her Dom dont see eye to eye on alot of things.  They end up in disagreements alot and at times she gets really frustrated.  I dont think its an all the time occurance, so its not like the two of them are combating alot - but from what i gathered its just random frustrations.  She said is that it greatly affects her ability to submit during these times.

From what i gathered, is that when the two of them argue (or whatever you want to call it) - with the feelings it leaves her, she cant continue to submit because it puts her in a "standoffish" place.  (as best she could describe).  Otherwise the submission and the two of them are fine.... except for these set backs.  She asked what i suggested and honestly i havent a clue.  I dont know if its an overall relationship problem, a problem with her, or what?  Not sure what to tell her on how to solve the problem so they can stop having set backs.  (other then of course to just suck it up and ignore it - which imo doesnt seem like the best advice to me)

So i'm curious - when other couples argue, or debate, or have a difference of opionon -  does it affect you as a sub/slave and your submission?  (P.S.  i know you cant always agree.)  If it does, how do you deal with it?

For the Dom's - if you have an arguement, debate, difference of opionon and you see that your sub/slaves view point is greatly different from yours and you see that she is frustrated with Your view point.. does it affect her.. alter her submission??  If it does, how do you deal with it?



ownedgirlie -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/23/2007 11:37:45 PM)

I am allowed a voice with which to express concerns, issues, fears, joys, etc.  I can also disagree (as long as I express myself appropriately), but once it turns into being argumentative, he ends the conversation and checks back in later to see if I am ready to talk rationally again.

It's been ages since we've "argued."  However, any time I have felt negatively toward him in the past, I was required to tell him.  It was never appropriate for me to stop submitting in any way, however.  I learned to compartmentalize my problems so I could remain focused on what needed my focus.  This ended up helping me in all areas of life, so if Situation A was really big, I could put it away and focus on Situation B, and so on. This way life does not affect my submission, nor does conflict with my Master.



MasterNdorei -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 12:11:10 AM)

Your friend may be looking for 100% heartfelt surrender in order to comply. It would be lovely if life allowed for only this kind of a connection.
i am still learning there is a lot of greatness in simple obedience. It doesn't mean i have to feel it, it means i am able to behave and conduct myself in a way that pleases Him even when it is not easy. There is greatness in this practice. As i obey, it becomes me. As it becomes me i am freed from the power of something making me miserable.

Master's dorei



rmanrr -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 12:23:15 AM)

how beautifully put dorei...and I agree. ownedgirlie you have much the same latitude that I provide My girl, with much the same response. If the opposing viewpoints are however strong enough to be so diametrically opposed as to see no middle ground then what? Simple....we agree to disagree....neither of us tries to convince the other. I would think that to be acting rationally with forethought. The situation has occurred once so far....and after discussion...we have not brought it up further.
Be Well, Be Careful

Jarl Rmanrr



SirKinkster -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 1:21:26 AM)

it would seem for me that if my sub had a fundamental difference with me she would be released.....why would i agrue wit hher about anything



PoeticPrincess -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 1:29:01 AM)

This sounds like a compatibility issue. Perhaps sexual compatibility is not enough if a person's way of thinking and acting outside of the bedroom totally piss you off.... submission is so much easier when you like and respect your Dom. With a certain degree of conflict things can be testy but workable, however it sounds as though a basic rift has occurred here, and unless the Dom is wise enough to address the issues, he may as well give up and let his Sub find a better match. IMHO.



swtnsparkling -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 4:14:54 AM)

quote:

i am still learning there is a lot of greatness in simple obedience. It doesn't mean i have to feel it, it means i am able to behave and conduct myself in a way that pleases Him even when it is not easy. There is greatness in this practice. As i obey, it becomes me. As it becomes me i am freed from the power of something making me miserable.

dorei,
I just wanted to add also that- this post is wonderful



MstrssPassion -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 4:20:28 AM)

quote:

-snip- from what i gathered its just random frustrations. She said is that it greatly affects her ability to submit during these times. -snip- From what i gathered, is that when the two of them argue (or whatever you want to call it) - with the feelings it leaves her, she cant continue to submit because it puts her in a "standoffish" place.  (as best she could describe).


It is really hard to comment not knowing the details & it truly depends on what the debate/argument/opposition is in order to determine how it should be resolved.

As far as the submission, there is a difference between submitting for physical activities & submitting mentally & emotionally. For me, when a relationship is formed & the goal is a relationship based on dominance & submission... surrender is required. Couples will always find times when they don't see eye to eye on matters. Even though I encourage my submissive(s) to voice their opinion, take the initiative to handle situations on their own... it is agreed that when we come to an impasse my decision is final & it will be accepted without issue.

This is all part of the foundation of the relationship. It has to be understood & trusted that everyone's best interest is taken into consideration. Without this level of trust then there really is no point in calling what we are doing a D/s relationship. One is in a position of authority & the other(s) have surrender to this authority.

Now as to the couple mentioned in this story. They really need to address these issues before they escalate to huge indifferences that cannot be easily resolved. If one party is disatisfied with the ultimate decision given by the dominant then it is a matter of incompatibility. If it is a matter of where they submissive in question is simply not willing to fully commit to a role of surrendering, meaning she is still trying to maintain control of matters that the dominant has assumed he is control of... then she needs to decide whether full time submission is something she is really geared to being.

Often people believe themselves to be a particular role because they express certain tendencies. They move forward with this rather than fully discover what they honestly wired to be. So many of these frustrations can be avoided if one would take the time to discover what they are & go with it & possibly grow from it. No one will ever ridicule someone for being true to themselves... the ridicule stems from those who attempt to pass themselves of as what they are not... this is true of both the dominants & the submissives. (sidenote: I was not directly refering to either of the people mentioned in this particular story in this final paragraph)



Focus50 -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 4:30:07 AM)

I've had my share of heated exchanges with past sub/slaves in my life and though arguments are never enjoyable, there is a longer term benefit in letting off built up "steam".... 
 
Given that I don't believe submissives are deliberately contrary or combative etc, the fact that this situation has developed to open hostility is the very reason I won't pull rank to stop it.  So I tend to sit back and let her rip; let it ALL out....  And once the dust has settled again, I like how she tends to feel coy and even silly for "daring" to vent this way....
 
As ugly as it can be, is it not also a form of communication?  And if you don't fight occasionally, you don't get to make up after, either!  Fire does cleanse - in moderation....
 
Focus.



slavegirljoy -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 4:54:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister

So i'm curious - when other couples argue, or debate, or have a difference of opionon -  does it affect you as a sub/slave and your submission?  (P.S.  i know you cant always agree.)  If it does, how do you deal with it?


i am allowed and encouraged to voice my opinions and to RESPECTFULLY disagree with my Master, when i have a differing opinion, so long as i maintain my composure and don't allow my emotions to overcome my ability to show my Master respect.  If i start to get excited and raise my voice, He will end the discussion immediately and even leave the room.  He may decide to resume the conversation later, as long as i understand that i need to keep my composure.  Usually, W/we do agree on most issues and where W/we disagree is on smaller issues that don't matter much and not worth getting upset over. 
 
my submission is not affected by disagreeing with my Master.  i feel every bit as submissive to my Master, whether i am voicing my opinion and/or disagreeing with my Master or not.  W/we can be in the middle of a big discussion and i will be sitting on the floor by His feet while i voice my opinion and He can tell me to get Him a drink or open my mouth, and i do, regardless of how O/our discussion is going.  If He tells me to "shut up", i do.  If He decides to stick something in my mouth to get me to shut up, He will.  i continue to respect Him, i continue to obey Him, i continue to serve Him, no matter what W/we are talking about or whether W/we agree or not.
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David



jauntyone -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 7:12:42 AM)

Greetings devilslilsister
 
for myself, if I disagree with something that Master has said or done, then I simply ask permission to speak openly, and explain to him where I am having the issues with. Even if his decision does not change after the discussion, it does not effect my ability to follow out his wishes. ( I do not use the word submission here because it is not something that I give to Master; it is something that is within me at all times; it can not be given away )
 
Sometimes I get angry, upset or hurt with him or his decisions; but I still obey his wishes.
 
I wish you well
 
melissa



sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 7:28:42 AM)

Sounds like they just aren't compatible and thats ok. I express my opinions when I have an issue with something. If I "argue" I get punished. I personally think that a sub or slave shouldn't argue. If all you are doing is arguing then the relationship is not working.  Master and I certainly have differences of opinion on certain things. I am allowed to express it in a respectful way but it is ultimately up to him what the end result is. Having a difference in opinion doesn't affect my submission, that is just life. Arguing all the time is not healthy and is usually a symptom of other issues.



juliaoceania -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 7:31:15 AM)

It helps that we do not have views that are diametrically opposed to one another. We do not always agree, but we do not expect to always agree. I have had a ban on dating people with diametrically opposed religions and politics for half a dozen years. I tried that once and I ended up getting on a bus in San Francisco and leaving early because he said something that offended me deeply. I have a hard limit against dating Christians and Republicans after that experience.

I have not had a D/s relationship with anyone that thought in a vastly different way than myself, and I wouldn't. I would end up disrespecting them because I could not voice my opinions openly.. especially if they pulled out the dom card



Mercnbeth -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 7:35:50 AM)

quote:

For the Dom's - if you have an argument, debate, difference of opinion and you see that your sub/slaves view point is greatly different from yours and you see that she is frustrated with Your view point.. does it affect her.. alter her submission??  If it does, how do you deal with it?
We differ on many subjects especially those regarding religion and politics. beth is as liberal as I am conservative on social issues. We both don't trust either political party. Philosophically beth believes in the inherent "good" of people. I'm confident in the inherent "bad". she'll trust people until they prove unworthy of trust. I'll doubt and be skeptical of a person's motives pretty much forever.

Both of us are passionate regarding our positions. Its a huge "so what" issue between us because we have a fundamental agreement on intolerance to hypocrisy and a strong focus on pragmatism. I take on pragmatism as a 'religious' belief.

We debate or "argue" using facts we believe generated from observation or research. Of course emotions come into play, but you'll never here from either an emotional expletive toward the other. We both feel if you to need to name call - you lose!

she has no requirement from me to change. In fact there is a specific requirement that she doesn't change unless it is what she believes. Have I ever changed position on a subject because of her or she because of me? Probably, but can't think of anything specific. I think it better described that she's worn down some of my skepticism and I've worn down some of her blind trust.

Our relationship only requires philosophical agreement on our goals for our relationship. Disagreement on issues plays a role in strengthening our relationship because debating requires communicating. Talking about some issue of disagreement sometimes opens the door for learning more about each other. I wouldn't recommend avoiding disagreement, simply avoid taking it personal.



agirl -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 8:35:38 AM)

 I SEE life very closely to the way M does, but I FEEL differently.

I can't think of anything that we'd be poles apart on but we react and behave differently to life.

If we were falling out constantly I am pretty sure both of us would get rather fed up and yes, it would affect the way I regarded him, but it would affect the way he regarded me, also.

Perhaps her *standoffishness* is her discomfort in the fact that they aren't on the same wavelength at that time. It's tons easier to be *willingly obedient* when things are going swimmingly and you're not in a huff.

agirl










LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 8:36:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister
So i'm curious - when other couples argue, or debate, or have a difference of opionon -  does it affect you as a sub/slave and your submission?  (P.S.  i know you cant always agree.)  If it does, how do you deal with it?

For the Dom's - if you have an arguement, debate, difference of opionon and you see that your sub/slaves view point is greatly different from yours and you see that she is frustrated with Your view point.. does it affect her.. alter her submission??  If it does, how do you deal with it?

It certainly affects my mood and my desire, and sometimes that's just inevitable and you go to sleep or you go to work or you just do it right then and let the residual feelings wash away with some deep breaths.

However, as common as THIS seems to be, it sounds like they have fundamental communication and problem solving glitches which need to be fixed or the whole thing will snowball.  My guess is no one is really feeling heard/listened to and no actual changes are being made on any side and frustration simply builds on frustration and while everyone's so busy trying to act/look like a happy couple, a time bomb is ticking away.

They don't need to forget the authority dynamic in order to work together, they just need to use better communication skills WITHIN the dynamic and start addressing the core issues and make real changes in how they work together.



Devilslilsister -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 8:57:52 AM)

i think its just a compatibility issue, like many of you said.  She and i spoke about it as one of their recent arguements had to do with me.  They were discussing me, my pregnancy came up, and the fact that i failed the first gestational diabetes test.  His response was along the lines of "there is no such thing as gestational diabetes".  So i'm thinking that the majority of their conflicts come from things not based on debatable topics.  Like she's never said "we disagreed on what a sub is".

Of course, it being a compatibility issue doesnt really give her any tools to deal with it.  LOL

i really liked what you said dorei and i will definetly pass that on.  IMO a very wise answer.

Focus, while i agree that argueing or debating can release hostilility - yet in this situation it seems to only create them.

thank you all for your opinions/advice





Devilslilsister -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 9:00:32 AM)

quote:

It's tons easier to be *willingly obedient* when things are going swimmingly and you're not in a huff.


thats along my lines of "suck it up" and put much better and more thoughtful then i could figure out how to put it. 



amuzingtoyou -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 9:09:48 AM)

I am an emotional person. Things effect me deeply. When my Dominant and i have argued in the past, it does make me shut down from being the giving caring person that i usually am. In these situations, He usually allows me time to vent and then calm down. Once I have gone thru the emotional part, then we can discuss what is really the problem. We have also grown to understand that its ok to grow frustrated with each other. Its even ok to get mad at the other person. It doesn't mean that the two people are not compatible. He and i rarely argue anymore. If one of us is upset, we express how we feel, and then move on. It works much better that way. I feel very fortunate that my Dominant understands how my emotions work, and that he works with me, instead of trying to change how i am. As everyone has said over and over again, it takes alot of communication to make a relationship work.
cheers,
missi



Argentopal -> RE: Difference of Opinions? (3/24/2007 9:30:15 AM)

HI,
I do agree that especially in a 24 7 Ds relationship you are just not going to agree 100% of the time.  As someone else sais here, Argent and I look at things differently.  He is alwyas coming from a "brain" place and I am always coming from a "heart" place; he is not nearly as emotional about things as I am and I can go from "0 to 60" in a nano-second while he left with whiplash looking at me like "what just happened".  When it is not happening, I can look at a situation and see how funny it would look to someone else actually.  But I forgive and get past things just as quickly, usually.  However, if it is something big and I get into a bad place in my head for a while it can effect how I feel about my submission.  I have always still done the things I am supposed to do, my rituals and rules and everyday jobs.  But in my head there is always a lot of resentment as I do each thing.  Until I stop and ask myself ... OK, if this makes you so mad and he doens deserve your submission, why are you still doing it?  The simple answer is that I asked to do it.  I wanted to submit to him and I wanted him to be my master.  It would be foolish to ever think it was always going to be perfect or always ging to be easy.  But each time I continue and give my submission even when I am not feeling all that great about it, I grow inside and it helps me become just a little bit better sub and thus a little bit better person.
I guess if it was a continuing thing with partners, I would have to wonder if it was really a good relationship for both of them.  To me, a relationship has to ahve more positive about it than negative and if that balance is upset, then it may be time to seriously reasess.  Not necessarily end it, but at least take a good look and try to find out why it's going on so much and decide what to do.
MsOpal



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