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ORIGINAL: stef

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ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

I guess we can dispense with that fairy tale now...
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=24853&only&rsssmall%20onmouseover

I guess we can also dispense with the fairy tale that you're anything but an intellectually and morally bankrupt troll.

Thanks for taking the time to clear that up.

~stef

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Why are you so eager to deny the photos are real, Julia?  Have you bought into Hillary's 'vast right-wing conspiracy?' 

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Or is it the unpleasant realization that this is where your energy is going, that these are the people you agree with, showing their true colors?  Kucinich for America!

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

So because someone did something somewhere, this defines the entire movement? I suppose by this logic because a few people tortured prisoners at Abu Grab that this defines every person in uniform. I think that it is much more fruitful to ask every person how they feel about supporting the troops rather than saying that a few people holding a banner represent everyone.

I do not know for sure who took that picture, where it was taken, or if it was staged. I have no belief in photos posted on some blog as being completely true without any context behind them.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Prove those came from a protest. We are assuming that they are real. I do not know that, but if you know it please show me the proof. Also prove to me these were not operatives doing some psyops. Some agent provocatuers sent out to discredit the peace movement. We do not know if these photos are real, we do not know who these people are that did this, we do not know the context of why it was done, yet you are stating things based upon an image that you have no idea of what the history behind it is.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Prove those came from a protest. We are assuming that they are real. I do not know that, but if you know it please show me the proof. Also prove to me these were not operatives doing some psyops. Some agent provocatuers sent out to discredit the peace movement. We do not know if these photos are real, we do not know who these people are that did this, we do not know the context of why it was done, yet you are stating things based upon an image that you have no idea of what the history behind it is.

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ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

Of course I haven't seen you go that route when someone posts threads like.. sending injured troops back to the front.
Really sucks when your side is exposed for thier real views.

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Funny thing though some, not all but some of the protesters want our Troops out of Iraq but want them in Darfur where we really have no interests and the same bogged down Occupation would happen.

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COINTELPRO (Counter Intelligence Program) was a program of the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation aimed at investigating and disrupting dissident political organizations within the United States. Although covert operations have been employed throughout FBI history, the formal COINTELPRO operations of 1956-1971 were broadly targeted against organizations that were (at the time) considered to have politically radical elements, ranging from those whose stated goal was the violent overthrow of the U.S. government (such as the Weathermen); non-violent civil rights groups such as Martin Luther King Jr.'s Southern Christian Leadership Conference; and violent groups like the Ku Klux Klan and the American Nazi Party. The founding document of COINTELPRO directed FBI agents to "expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize" the activities of these movements and their leaders.

And if you think it ain't happening TODAY, you're naive.

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ORIGINAL: Vendaval

From Feyetteville, Arkansas
 
"War Protesters Want Troops Home, Want Peace"
This article was published on Sunday, March 11, 2007 7:20 PM CDT in News

By Trish Mehaffey
The Morning News

" Melanie Dietzel, co-president of center, said the rally is to remember all those who have died and to let the administration know, "We want it to stop. We want peace in the world." She believes the troops should be brought home as quickly as possible.

Gary Belew said he comes every year to the protest, hoping it will be his last.

"They should bring the troops home. They shouldn't be there. We should pull out now. I think the tide is turning against the administration."

Diana Welch said she understands the troops can't be pulled out all at once, but the process should begin. "

http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2007/03/12/news/031207fzantiwarmarch.txt


(Format edit, the preview button is not working for me right now)

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

Ok, for those too unconnected to know, the folks in the black ski masks burning the effigy and holding the signs are supposed to be anarchists, whether the photos are real or staged I cannot say.

Anarchists of this sort are little more than young thugs looking to start trouble. In a protest involving a few thousand leftists perhaps 10 of this sort of anarchist will show up and try and start trouble with the cops by doing this sort of stuff and/or throwing stuff at them.

This tiny percentage of violent outrageous and completely marginalized people compares very well with the skinhead trouble makers that hand around the fringes of the GOP and right wing causes.

Now to make sweeping claims about the left based on these morons allows the same to be done with the right and skinheads. Which I'm guessing the right wingers on here will be quick to denounce.

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ORIGINAL: Sternhand4
As a "rightwinger" I'd like to see a photo of skinheads at any type of gathering we'd attend. Nazi symbols or clothing would quockly be ripped off the offenders by many of the WWII vets. My grandfather woukdnt drive german or japanese cars, much less let skinheads protest with him. If memory serves, it was the ACLU ( a decidedly leftwing organization) that fought for the american nazi's not the GOP.

But show me some evidence linking the right to skinheads..

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ORIGINAL: puella

I think it has been pretty clearly established (though there should be absolutely no need to have to do so) that because a small fringe group of people behave in an abominable manner, it by no means identifies the larger group of people. It is just not logical reasoning.

By that method of thinking, you must pull the picture out further, and as these people who burned the effigy were American... all Americans hate the troops.

To give a counterpoint... there are a few nut jobs who go around bombing and shooting people who work at abortion clinics in the name of Christ's will (here comes my favorite word.) .  Ironically, they miss the point of their own mission, trying to save what they view as life.

It is as unfair and unreasonable  to hold up Paul J. Hill  and say " 'I guess we can dispense with that fairy tale now... Really sucks when your side is exposed for their real views.'  All people who do not support a womans right to choice are murderers"  as it is to say  " 'I guess we can dispense with that fairy tale now... Really sucks when your side is exposed for their real views. ' Everyone who wants the war to end hates and wants to kill the troops." It reveals at best a childish grasp of logic, and at worst a definite menacing methodology which endorces the misconstrued notion of taking the most horrifying and rare anomaly anddeclaring it an absolute, that it is an accurate representation of everyone's intention.

For a group of people to choose a peace rally to demonstrate their own dark and twisted frustrations, is in my opinion a flagrant misuse of one's freedom of speech. It is also just tragic that they blame this war on the people who have been asked to sacrifice the most for it, without political agenda. I do not know of anyone, either for or against the war and occupation, who would condone, let alone encourage such actions.

I have gone on numerous marches and protests against this war and occupation at various stages of its inception and implementation.  My brother, and several cousins are all in this war...actually in this war, fighting for you.  I, like most people, love my family, and my brother and I are very close and to imply that I or anyone who has  or has lost a loved one in harms way because of this occupation and is against it's continuance wants to harm them or hates them is just as revolting and idiotic a statement as those made by those few, isolated rabble-rousers who burned the effigy.