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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/7/2007 3:42:31 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Sen James Inuoe (sp?) said that global warming is the biggest scam ever pulled on the American People in our history.


Politicians who say it is a scam are not looking after their constituents but the special interest groups who fill their back pockets. A politician who is worth anything and there are not many around, would say, this is an opportunity to jump ahead of the field.

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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/7/2007 4:07:52 PM   
Dtesmoac


Posts: 565
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		The biofuels argument is not about global warming it is about security of fuel source. The global warming argument has been hijacked.

As always on this topic (global warming) the non believers provide no new evidence it a rehash of old points and the believers quote what is general accepted as the best available science, but which has gas in it. Weight of peer reviewed opinion on a global basis is that humans are responsible for a signficant proportion, and if not the margin of error, and potential consequence is such that we should act as if they were.  

The issue of biofuels rasing the cost of food has been around for some time. If the technology can be developed to produce fuel from the non edible parts at an economic rate then it may become a "climate change mechanism". However there would still require to be market mechanisms put in place to prevent food being used for this.
The crux of the matter is that Corn is not the best crop to produce biofuel from and so the only reason it is being pushed in some places is to top up farmers incomes (politics) and for security of supply (politics).  

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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/7/2007 4:26:11 PM   
mcbride


Posts: 333
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Status: offline 		No, Hawaii Democratic Senator Daniel Inouye did not call global warming a hoax.
In fact, Oklahoma Republican Senator James Inhofe did.
Inhofe, the former chair of the Environment committee, God help us,  also holds that theWeather Channel is behind the global warming "hoax",  to attract viewers.
Glad to help.

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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/7/2007 5:18:41 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

No, I tend to avoid the National Inquirer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

hmmm, I read somewhere that there has been no temperature increase in the southern hemisphere.

Anyone else read that?



Lordand master, that's a good thing!
Al Gore is one of the Editors!

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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/7/2007 5:32:57 PM   
Arpig


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From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Everything hurts the fucking poor...that's why we are poor damnit. prices go up and low incomes don't...it's like the Christ said...the poor will be with you always...there's just a fuck of a lot more of us than there used to be

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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/7/2007 6:07:05 PM   
Cefoxitin


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Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		i do not see why i care what any other country sells corn for.  but you have to know that you are tunneling on corn.  sugar beets are used too.  where are the sugar beet riots in mexico?

But the trend in bio fuels are flawed in nature because the origonal reason for halting the ethonol in the first place was the pollution and the wear on engines.  so you need to realise that you will wear your engine out faster the more ehenol you use. 
The use of any alcahol in a fuel means it burns hotter and will also wear not only the metal stresses of your engine but the gasgets will wear out faster and there is still the dependance on oil that will have to handle higher tempatures and break down faster. 

Ethonol is a horrible alternative.  i like hydrogen alot better.  but it's not as profeitable to sell distiled water.

well hell, maybe the mexicans should riot over corn, then we can get on with real options. 


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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/7/2007 6:13:37 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		hemp out produces any grain crop 4 to 1 per acre in terms of bio value.

If the entire grain production of the United States were to be turned to the manufacture of bio--- you would be able to blend a years worth of petroleums at about a 2% rate. 

Somebody somewhere would have to wise up before these biopetro proposals become even marginally meritable.




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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/7/2007 6:20:02 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		I have a friend named farmer Coby who tells me that all the farmers HE knows are planting corn this year because commodities prices have been so down for so long that the chance to finally make some real money farming is irresistable. It might not work out for them because if everyones' field is in corn, corn prices will bottom out with a good harvest. But the thing is, environmental extremists who scream bloody murder with every proposed new oil rig are indeed hurting the poor, and they will tell you flat out, "too bad."

They just don't care, and that is the bottom line. The artic tundra mouse has to have billions and billions of square miles of pristine wasteland, but to hell with the starving children all over the world.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

So you want to allow millions of poor people to die because you are trying to save the planet from a theory that cant even be scientifically proven true.

This global warming stuff is becoming insane.

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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/7/2007 11:31:20 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		I think there's some type of vegetation that grows in the southwest naturally and outproduces corn by 4 to 1 in power production.

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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/7/2007 11:38:20 PM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		There's some type of vegetation that grows pretty much everywhere and outproduces corn by 10 to 1 in ethanol production.

But we don't talk about that plant.



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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/7/2007 11:41:30 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

There's some type of vegetation that grows pretty much everywhere and outproduces corn by 10 to 1 in ethanol production.

But we don't talk about that plant.




Fargle, you mean "Hippy Lettuce?"

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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/7/2007 11:43:49 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		The FIRST Rule of... Uh, what were we talking about, again?



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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/8/2007 1:01:56 AM   
meatcleaver


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Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I have a friend named farmer Coby who tells me that all the farmers HE knows are planting corn this year because commodities prices have been so down for so long that the chance to finally make some real money farming is irresistable. It might not work out for them because if everyones' field is in corn, corn prices will bottom out with a good harvest. But the thing is, environmental extremists who scream bloody murder with every proposed new oil rig are indeed hurting the poor, and they will tell you flat out, "too bad."

They just don't care, and that is the bottom line. The artic tundra mouse has to have billions and billions of square miles of pristine wasteland, but to hell with the starving children all over the world.



If farmers got a proper job or had a real business instead of one riding on the backs of the taxpayer (both sides of the Atlantic), they wouldn't be belly aching so much. If factory workers can be laid off, if other businesses can be allowed to go to the wall, so should farmers if they can't make a profit.

Invoking the poor in this argument is poor taste. This argument has nothing to do with the poor and everything to do with special interest groups.

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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/8/2007 8:42:35 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Sen James Inuoe (sp?) said that global warming is the biggest scam ever pulled on the American People in our history.


popeye1250:
That would be one senator out of one hundred.  I believe you are on record as saying that you do not trust any politician. Have you changed your position ie: flip flop...to be that you now trust only those politicians who agree with your position?
thompson

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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/8/2007 8:52:41 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I have a friend named farmer Coby who tells me that all the farmers HE knows are planting corn this year because commodities prices have been so down for so long that the chance to finally make some real money farming is irresistable. It might not work out for them because if everyones' field is in corn, corn prices will bottom out with a good harvest. But the thing is, environmental extremists who scream bloody murder with every proposed new oil rig are indeed hurting the poor, and they will tell you flat out, "too bad."

They just don't care, and that is the bottom line. The artic tundra mouse has to have billions and billions of square miles of pristine wasteland, but to hell with the starving children all over the world.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

So you want to allow millions of poor people to die because you are trying to save the planet from a theory that cant even be scientifically proven true.

This global warming stuff is becoming insane.



Sanity:
How many acres does your imaginary friend, farmer Coby. farm?  If one were to total up the acreage of all of the "small farmers" in the world and compare it to just one of the mega farmers ie: Archer Daniels Midland one might get a better perspective of the magintude of the hypocracy of your post.
thompson

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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/8/2007 8:59:38 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

There's some type of vegetation that grows pretty much everywhere and outproduces corn by 10 to 1 in ethanol production.

But we don't talk about that plant.




Fargle, you mean "Hippy Lettuce?"


popeye1250:
If you have any desire to do more than snipe at peoples opinions you might want to read the book "From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank" by Tikel.  It gives a list of the different plants that may be used to make biofuels...while hemp rankd higher than corn it ranks relatively low on the list of plants that are usable in this enterprise.
The book also goes into the amount of land necessary for the production of enough biomass to fill the gap between locally produced oil and imported oil. The types of land that could be brought into production and the total cost of doing so.
thompson

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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/8/2007 9:50:00 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Today's story du jour about global warming:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070308/us_nm/climate_hunters_dc

Maybe this is the last stone in the dyke.  Aren't Colorado hunters and anglers big-time Republicans?  Or is that just my Northeastern bias speaking...

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 3/8/2007 10:46:01 AM >

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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/8/2007 1:47:36 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		I'm so happy I'm so happy it hurts me when I larf......

At 21:30 in the UK I am watching a TV programme on Ch4 called < the great global warming swindle>.
Do you dozy, easily led PC Liberals know what the analysis of deep Earth  ice core probes show.....
well do you....I didn't....... but I do now.......

INCREASES in CO2 in the atmosphere FOLLOWS  increases in average Global temperature..
Poor old Al Gore and all you Hair Shirt Liberals. Got it all wrong again. he he he he he he eh he

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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/8/2007 3:10:20 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		u could have been politie enough to put up a link seeks.

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/G/great_global_warming_swindle/index.html

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RE: Global Warming Scare Hurting The Poor - 3/8/2007 4:15:30 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Channel 4's own expert is John F.B. Mitchell of the British Meteorological Office.

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/G/great_global_warming_swindle/expert_2.html

He was a prominent co-author of Climate Change 2001 (ISBN: 0521015073), which attributed a significant portion of the global warming to human activity.  Why they would call global warming a "swindle" is beyond me--when it's clear that they themselves don't even believe that.  More media hype?  Media misinformation works both ways, you know.

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