love and repect

love and repect (Full Version)

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GoddessGreed -> love and repect (2/27/2007 5:10:41 AM)
If you read any 'relationship rescue' books, listen to any marriage counsellers etc etc, they all say, you wont get love or respect from a man, if you allow yourself to be controlled. Itd be interesting to hear both dom and sub views on this...

GoddessGreed -> RE: love and repect (2/27/2007 5:12:45 AM)
ooops it seems i cant spell respect lol

BDSM05478 -> RE: love and repect (2/27/2007 5:16:44 AM)
Those "relationship books" are geared towards vanillas so they do not apply to this dynamic where the idea of control is involved and encouraged.

mnottertail -> RE: love and respect (2/27/2007 5:18:03 AM)
That is a mainstream fantasy that has little to do with reality. That's about a bunch of don't fuck until the third date kind of hogwash...In fact, I would think it very difficult if respect could be defined agreeably between the sexes. Ron anybody can get repect, not many get respect.

GoddessGreed -> RE: love and respect (2/27/2007 5:23:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail . That's about a bunch of don't fuck until the third date kind of hogwash... Ron Im usually planning marriage by the 3rd date!!!

StellaByStarlite -> RE: love and repect (2/27/2007 5:36:57 AM)
Hello. =) I think this style of thinking stems from two things. One is the "old-school" feminism that swept America 30 or so years ago. The other factor is our cultural values. America has a history of emphasizing independence, individualism, carving our own place in the world. It makes sense given our past as colonists. All that is perfectly well and good as far as building a society goes, but translating that to personal relationships is tricky. In the more healthy vanilla relationships I've observed or experienced, control flows back and forth between both parties. Cheers, Stella

agirl -> RE: love and repect (2/27/2007 5:48:56 AM)
'Tis different. Allowing yourself to be controlled in a relationship where you don't wish to be, in ways and situations where you don't wish to be, and are unhappy and uncomfortable...........isn't the same as choosing to be, knowing the extent and being content, overall, with it. One is like giving up, the other is, perhaps, giving in. agirl

junecleaver -> RE: love and repect (2/27/2007 6:33:55 AM)
People worth respecting are the people who live up to their promises. If I promised to obey, then it serves to reason I would get his respect by honoring that agreement. I think in the 'vanilla world' or whatever you want to call it that holds some truth. But it definitely doesn't in my relationship.

toservez -> RE: love and repect (2/27/2007 6:52:01 AM)
This is popcorn regular world psychological logic 101 depends on the view type of thing. In other words if a person is being controlled they have issues and the person doing the controlling has issues so therefore it is not a good and healthy relationship and love and respect are missing. The person who is being controlled is probably not happy and the controller is probably looking for something that is missing in themselves and is dealing with it poorly, couples in the wrong place mentally. Two people getting together that may or may not already be doomed in the love and respect area in human relations. In our world the two people have mutually consented and understand the dynamic of the relationship that they both searched out and looked for. No one is forcing their issues on another and the other to weak to defend themselves. This does not mean that what I wrote above does not happen in this life as we are not exempt from human fallacy but just that control is not a pure indication of lack of love and respect.

Mustardseed -> RE: love and repect (2/27/2007 6:57:53 AM)
Hrm. When I read relationship books, I simply adjust certain terms to fit my relationship dynamic. I'll recommend Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay to pretty much anyone trying to figure out what to do with an issueful relationship just because it's so customizable and user friendly. I will qualify that the author is a stickler on one point, though -- she has minimal tolerance for physical abuse in a relationship and recommends leaving if one's partner has seriously hurt the reader more than once. Okay, I mentally add "unconsentually," ala the Lesbian Sex Mafia's BDSM is NOT Abuse pamphlet. A dominant who does not take my boundaries and limits into consideration does not, in my opinion, respect me. If it's a memory issue, then they should have enough concern for me to brush up on their Mustardseed facts before each play session. Repeated broken promises and other lies are, to me, the cornerstone of a loveless relationship. Negotiation is about control: it's difficult to engage in power exchange if the submissive party doesn't have any to hand over, or if the person I'm negotiating with doesn't understand that it's an exchange. The fact that I've allowed a dominant control over me -- rather than just let them bully me into it -- is one of the adjustments that I carry into relationship books.

Mercnbeth -> RE: love and respect (2/27/2007 7:06:41 AM)
quote: you wont get love or respect from a man, if you allow yourself to be controlled. My knee jerk reaction to this was to say that most of these books were probably written by 'femanazies' or weak male apologists; however considering human nature for what it is I can see where this can occur. Just look around on this website. Do you really believe that all the self professed subs, or doms for that matter, have dominant or submissive desires? At best most want a new experience. Most are here to get laid; having no concept or desire for a M/s or D/s relationship. Abuse is what happens when a submissive personality emotionally commits to a dominant foreployer. The possibility of it happening is great. A one sided D/s relationship is no different than one sided love. In love its hopeless and emotionally painful. In D/s it is just as hopeless and you add physical pain to the emotions. The opportunity to control and abuse a person who in their nature submits is huge. Sometimes the abuse is the only attention given and it interpreted as an example of "love". Is love and respect possible within this dynamic? Well, there is no one in this world I respect more than beth, and it would be impossible to love anyone more deeply. This was accomplished because beth came to me as much as a strong woman as she was a submissive woman. she experienced abuse first hand and knew to avoid it. her submissive desires aside, she went about her search aggressively and intelligently. she took responsibility for herself right up to the moment that she surrendered to me. she didn't surrender to me until I had earned that level of trust; not by contrived "tests" but by living life together and observing how I interacted not only with her, but others in my life. she didn't come to a website seeking "love or respect". Like most of us, she came seeking the same sensations. But she was open to the concept of love. Whoever she encountered she required respect. she has respect for herself and always has. she went through the process of knowing herself and drew upon that knowledge to intelligently analyze the opportunities that came her way. I was fortunate to be one of the "opportunities" four years ago as of March 1st. The "love and respect" is mutual.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: love and repect (2/27/2007 7:08:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessGreed If you read any 'relationship rescue' books, listen to any marriage counsellers etc etc, they all say, you wont get love or respect from a man, if you allow yourself to be controlled. Itd be interesting to hear both dom and sub views on this... Because the people who need rescuing are the ones who lack control of anything, don't know how to stand up for themselves and how to build respect for themselves and their own lives. Even in Ms, slaves are useless in relationships if they are not mature and responsible adults. It takes strong people to make strong relationships. And it's not about control- it's about authority.

hisannabelle -> RE: love and repect (2/27/2007 7:15:31 AM)
it depends on whether or not you seek out a loving and respectful man to control you. there are assholes everywhere; dominants are no exception. but that doesn't mean all dominants are assholes. :)

myobedience -> RE: love and repect (2/27/2007 7:24:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mustardseed A dominant who does not take my boundaries and limits into consideration does not, in my opinion, respect me. If it's a memory issue, *** then they should have enough concern for me to brush up on their Mustardseed facts before each play session. ** Repeated broken promises and other lies are, to me, the cornerstone of a loveless relationship. Sir wrote "Limits by no means need to be strictly sexual. I was referring to such, but I see no reason that they need to be." i 100% agree. i think we all tend to think limits and boundaries are for sexual related issues, but how many times do we read a sub profile that says "I am NOT a doormat, buy one at Menards."We should all have boundaries and limits on what is expected behaviour from our "other" other than just the sexual ones.

GoddessGreed -> RE: love and repect (2/27/2007 8:06:02 AM)
Thanks for all the interesting replies :)

Lashra -> RE: love and repect (2/27/2007 8:10:21 AM)
I think these books refer to the "bad" type of control whereas a woman ceases to be a human being and becomes an object of abuse. I mean REAL abuse. Some women like to be controlled and if that floats their boats so be it, definitely not my thing. I am a feminist and I see nothing wrong with the D/s dynamic as long as both people are happy, no one gets hurt in a bad way and most of all its consenual. I have learnt over the years you have to take what you read/hear with a grain of salt. Take what may apply to you and toss the rest. ~Lashra

MasterGremlin -> RE: love and repect (2/27/2007 8:11:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessGreed If you read any 'relationship rescue' books, listen to any marriage counsellers etc etc, they all say, you wont get love or respect from a man, if you allow yourself to be controlled. Itd be interesting to hear both dom and sub views on this... Having been in a "controlling" relationship as described, I agree, but the difference is CONSENT. I never consented to being controlled by him which makes it abuse. Cordially, minxy [:)]

MasterFireMaam -> RE: love and repect (2/27/2007 8:55:16 AM)
I know too many loving and respectful Male Dom/fem sub ( and Male Master/fem slave) relationships to agree with that sentiment. Perhaps the books are saying that the women in the relationships should be mentally and emotionally healthy and not allow their core boundary issues to be crossed. That issue isn't about being controlled or not, that issue is about good mental health. Master Fire

juliaoceania -> RE: love and repect (2/27/2007 9:57:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessGreed If you read any 'relationship rescue' books, listen to any marriage counsellers etc etc, they all say, you wont get love or respect from a man, if you allow yourself to be controlled. Itd be interesting to hear both dom and sub views on this... Funny, that has not been my experience, but it would depend on what is meant by "control" "love" and "respect" I think that in the traditional sense of the word there is less respect in D/s relationships than others. I mean it is his way ultimately, he makes the decisions, and many people perceive this as a lack of respect within the relationship. They equate respect with having equal say, being able to make their own decisions based upon their opinions. It is not the same for many doing D/s, is it? I feel respected, but not in the traditional vanilla sense of the word. The word control gets used in a negative way also. Someone controlling another is perceived as a lack of respect in and of itself. In the vanilla world "controlling" equals "abuse", how can you be controlling loving and respectful at the same time? Of course the simple answer is that some of us consent to this and seek it, and we are not like our vanilla counterpart. If vanilla friend expressed to me that her man was controlling, disrespectful of her desires, I would equate this with a lack of love for her and think she was being abused if she was unhappy about it. I would assume this was not consensual. I do not think that the words of "experts" can even be applied to power exchange relationships... they are their own animal. That is not to say that abuse and negative controlling does not happen in D/s, but as long as everyone is happy, that is the real key

bastardandthewen -> RE: love and repect (2/27/2007 2:45:06 PM)
I gave up long ago paying attention to what books, movies, tv, and hell, even what my friends and parents told me about love and relationships. Why? They are not living MY relationship. No one knows me better then me, and so I tossed all advice where it belongs- in the rubbish, and began to listen to what was right for me. And that is when I found my first balanced and peaceful relationship. I can't reccomend it enough. I'm a complete control freak; I find it hard to give in to someone else - find it hard to beleive anyone could do things better then I could - egotistical, I know. But I was delighted to find a partner in whom I could trust enough to let go - and even more surprised to find there is a measure of freedom gained in giving control to someone else. It's my only time to "check out" from the stress of everyday life- let go and not think about pressures of work, what have you; just be whatever my partner wants me to be in that moment in time, without thinking. Love and respect? I'm confident I have both, unconditionally.

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