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respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 3:08:59 PM   
porthuronsub


Posts: 339
Joined: 4/26/2005
Status: offline 		I may be posting in the wrong forum.  My Mistress and I saw a live telecast of M. Ghandis grandson speaking to a group of university students.  It was a open question and answer type forum. One of the students asked him what he thought about religious tolerance and I thought his answer was rather profound.  He said that he thought that was exactly the problem.  He stated that people keep saying that you need to tolerate anothers choice of religion when it is really about "respect". 
Tolerance means that you dislike it and it is an aberration in your eyes.  Respect means that although you don't agree with the practices, you respect their choice.

talk amongst yourselves *waves hands around* and tell me what you think.  I feel this applies in many facets of life, not religion alone.
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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 3:12:43 PM   
juliaoceania


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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I love this post, thanks for making it. I agree with it too. I try to respect other people's lives, and hope that they give me and mine the same respect.. often this is not the case, and then I must tolerate them...lol

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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 3:13:06 PM   
SilverShadows


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Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		I personally think he hit the nail on the head. I have tried to explain this to other. I left the UU church I used to attend because they were tolerant people and I was looking for so much more. By the different gifts each person is given they have different gifts to give each other and society. Not just tolerated but embraced.

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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 3:15:03 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		i agree wholeheartedly with the original post...personally, tolerance makes me sick. but then again, i tolerate people i find ignorant, so i'm guilty of it - perhaps that makes me a hypocrite. but my previous dominant and his family tolerated my religious beliefs and what i wanted to do with my life, when all i wanted was for them to accept it as a valid, healthy part of me. many people i know disagree with who i am as a person and simply tolerate the parts they don't like - which leads me to feel disrespected. it's like saying, "well, i hate homosexuality, but i have gay friends," - that, to me, is tolerance, not respect.

anyway, i think this would have fit in well either here or in off topic, and i'm so glad you posted it, because it's so true, in so many ways. :)

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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 3:16:13 PM   
hisannabelle


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From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverShadows

Not just tolerated but embraced.


exactly!

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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 3:23:13 PM   
hereyesruponyou


Posts: 770
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline 		Excellent point. Tolerance is why i don't really respect any religion. For me it is hard to accept that there is only one "true" way and the rest of the world is wrong
 
Thanks for making us think

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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 3:33:46 PM   
porthuronsub


Posts: 339
Joined: 4/26/2005
Status: offline 		I have thought about posting this since I saw him on the telecast.  My Mistress and I looked at each other when he got done saying that statement and spoke at the same time saying "exactly". 
I am glad you liked it.

I am atheist, I view all organized religion as types of cults, different levels, more organized maybe but cults non the less.  It is hard to respect a church who has men raping boys, televangelists having extramarital affairs and so on.  Even though I don't believe in organized religion, I still respect those that do and attend church on a regular basis.  I just wish they wouldn't push their values on me. 

< Message edited by porthuronsub -- 2/25/2007 3:34:13 PM >

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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 3:56:31 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: porthuronsub

I may be posting in the wrong forum.  My Mistress and I saw a live telecast of M. Ghandis grandson speaking to a group of university students.  It was a open question and answer type forum. One of the students asked him what he thought about religious tolerance and I thought his answer was rather profound.  He said that he thought that was exactly the problem.  He stated that people keep saying that you need to tolerate anothers choice of religion when it is really about "respect". 
Tolerance means that you dislike it and it is an aberration in your eyes.  Respect means that although you don't agree with the practices, you respect their choice.

talk amongst yourselves *waves hands around* and tell me what you think.  I feel this applies in many facets of life, not religion alone.


I came to this realization when I was looking for colleges. Against my mother's desires, I probed the students I was exposed to about their views on homosexuality and bisexuality. I asked about how active the PRIDE groups were and how "tolerant" the community was. I got a lot of tolerance but I discovered I wasn't looking to be tolerated for my sexuality. I was looking to be accepted, to be somewhere where they wouldn't care about it.

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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 4:06:36 PM   
BeachMystress


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From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline 		I have long held the belief that I do not have to support what someone says or does; I merely need to support their right to say or do it as long as it is within the letter of the law. To me it isn't about tolerance or respect. It is merely being aware that not everything has to be done MY WAY. My responsibility as a mature adult human is just not to pee in their pool because I don't like them or what they say/do. 

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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 4:28:25 PM   
KnightofMists


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Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I agree  ... the thought was indeed rather profound... thanks for sharing it.

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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 4:55:38 PM   
szobras


Posts: 435
Joined: 9/18/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you for sharing this. I quite agree.

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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 5:11:05 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Tolerance has been done to death, I agree with you all.

Now, as to respect - To me, respect means something more than I do to everyone.  I do not walk along the street and respect everyone.  I respect those who have shown me that they are above par, where I can just say, "Wow."

To respect someone's choice, then, is to say, "Kudos on going against the grain!"  It's not about "Hey!  You decided to go for lunch.  Congrats!" 

In the same way, I don't respect religions, but I do more than tolerate.  To respect, I would have to know a lot about it.  I just accept it and go on with life.

Yours,


benji

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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 5:19:45 PM   
azzmaster


Posts: 864
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		great post. really should be in off topic in a sense tho a case could be made for people in BDSM needing more tolerant attitude

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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 5:26:19 PM   
SilverShadows


Posts: 558
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		I personally think he hit the nail on the head. I have tried to explain this to other. I left the UU church I used to attend because they were tolerant people and I was looking for so much more. By the different gifts each person is given they have different gifts to give each other and society. Not just tolerated but embraced.

It hardly rates as a top peeve but people who say they will relocate and then you find out the have a poly family already, or are collared and there is absolutely no chance they will relocate. In most cases I suspect they have forgotten they have checked it but it still takes up my time. Petty I know but still irritating.

After apprenticing in to a Doctoring Person in a Native American Medicine Society I was well drilled in respect. I try to be respectful of all things including people. That doesn't mean I always agree with them or their actions but I try to express my displeasure with respect. This also would be in keeping with Buddhist teachings, to hold compassion even for those who are "ignorant egotistical idiots." [I’m not thinking of anyone in particular at the moment.] There suffering is as great as mine.

I make a truly terrible domme for someone who truly wants to be humiliated and degraded.

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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 5:30:36 PM   
happypervert


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Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

i agree wholeheartedly with the original post...personally, tolerance makes me sick.

LOL! Just can't tolerate tolerance, eh?



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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 5:35:04 PM   
FLFunTop


Posts: 33
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		Yes respect not only in religion, but in how one lives, but by the same token that respect has to be earned does it not?

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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 5:43:29 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		I am not sure I agree with his statement. 

What I disagree with is the idea that because I am tolerant of another
person means I hate what they are doing.  I may not do something, but this does not mean I have an oppositional
attitude towards it being done.  This is about an action.

Respect, on the other hand, is about the person.  I respect another person's choices, at least as far as they are not trampling on somebody else's ability to make a choice.  This is about a person, not an action.

Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy



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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 5:47:50 PM   
SilverShadows


Posts: 558
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		I would say trust has to be earned. Liking has to be earned. Love has to be earned. But because I wish to be a high class person I try to always act in a high class way. It doesn't matter if the other person hasn’t; I do because I have to live with myself. I do not judge my actions in comparison to someone else’s, especially someone who is not high class.

Now we are drifting into the area of metaphysics:
1. Since all things are possessed of divine spirit that spirit must be respected.
2. Since I bear the consequences of my actions call it karma if you with, I do not choose to take on the burden of being uncompassionate.

I hardly need to say these last are part of my belief system and will only make sense if you share similar belief system.



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Το αίμα είναι η ζωή
Cruor est Vita
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Come Kiss the Guillotine
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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 5:56:47 PM   
szobras


Posts: 435
Joined: 9/18/2006
Status: offline 		I try to keep in mind that both tolerance, and respect can only pass from me to another. And visa versa. Each are my individual choices to freely give from myself, just as they are another's free choice to extend to me. The bearing of thoughts and actions are the basis of that choice by the individual.

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RE: respect vs. tolerance - 2/25/2007 5:59:56 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		Interesting post.

I dont wholeheartedly disagree with the opinion, but I dont think its solely that simple.

People have a lot of different views on the notion of respect.

Many people would think I am disrespectful and I probably am in certain cases.  Respect to me is something that is earned and I dont beleive I own a certain amount to someone just because they breath and take up space. On the other hand, some people feal they deserve a certain amount of respect and special honorifics because they made a profile on the Internet, self proclaiming their dominance.

Some people would call me disrespectful for simply stating my opinions simply because they were different from theirs and then I would call them disrespectful of my opinions. You are more than welcome to follow whatever religion you like, but does that mean I cant disagree with your so called "truths"?

The OP has made a post about respecting religion, but I am sure many people would find this line to very disrespectful towards their religion...

quote:


It is hard to respect a church who has men raping boys, televangelists having extramarital affairs and so on.


...since it would appears your judging the entire church based on the actions of a few.

At what point does the notions of "respect and acceptance" conflict with the ideal "of standing up for what you beleive in"? When you stand up for something you beleive in that typically means your opposing something that is contary to your belief.

I am strongly against pedophilia. I have zero respect for anyone who has sex with a child. I would not accept a pedophile. However, orgainzations like The National Man Love Boy Association have beliefs that are contary to mine, saying its ethical behavior. I am sure they would call me "disrespectful and non accepting" while everyone else would hoist me up as a hero and agree with me.

Bisexuals and homosexuals talk constantly about respecting other people's ways of life and accepting people for who they are...but I notice this seems to only apply to people who disagree with their sexuality as moral and ethical. When people bring up that they find homosexuality to be morally and ethically wrong because of their religion, the notions of "acceptance and religion" go right out the window.

A gentleman in another thread recently made the statement that he found man on man sex to be gross and woman on woman sex to be a turn on. This was his opinion. This was his personal sexual preference. But unfortanely it wasnt the lovey dovey politically correct "hold hands and dance" opinion so the notion of respect and acceptance went right out the window.

I find the color pink to be gross and the color black to be awesome. Should I change my color preferences so that it's fair to both colors? Should I tear down all the black in my room and replace it with pink, a color I dont like, so its fair to pink?

I've noticed that when people talk about acceptance and respect, they are only refering to accepting and respecting the politically correct views that are accepted by the majority.

Personally, I jsut try to be true to myself, no matter what I say, and try hard to not get bothered when I am not accepted or insulted or told I am wrong or disrespected because of what I say.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 2/25/2007 6:03:19 PM >

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