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Reality - 2/12/2007 10:51:53 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
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i'm having a night of it ::rolls eyes:: and it leaves me to ponder something i've pondered before. What is reality? Is reality what you make it, or is it already made? Is reality a collective sum of everyones reality all rolled into the worlds reality? Is reality based on truth or simply whatever you make it? My reality is obviously different then another's reality, but is the concept the same? Along the same thought, what is real? On top of that, what is anything? A pen is a pen, because i'm told its a pen.....

What the hell is the truth? Is it subject to what reality is? And if reality is subjective, then that makes the truth subjective. So what is reality and what is truth (and then what are lies and do they really exist if reality is subjective?)

If a reality can be made - who makes it? Especially in a m/s or bdsm relationship. Is reality based on what a Dom wants you to percieve it as? If that is the reality that's given to you, does that make it real and truthful? Or does it just make it one persons reality - but then as a sub/slave does that make it two peoples realities?

Again, what is real? What makes it real? In a m/s relationship is whats real, what you are told is real? Obviously i'm not talking about is a house a house, a dog a dog, a cat a cat or this keyboard a keyboard - i'm talking about the things you can not see. Its abit like faith. Is God real? Cant see God, cant touch God, yet i'm told he's real. Is God Real or is it just a reality based on anothers perspective? How many perspectives equates to a truthful reality?

i dunno. Is reality creatible or is it just is? Can it be created in a m/s relatinship or is it already - just is? And if you come back and tell me that reality between in a m/s relationship is whatever two people want it to be - then you're telling me that there is no reality and it is creatible. That there is no truth, that nothing is real.

So what is it?

Post #: 1

RE: Reality - 2/12/2007 10:56:17 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Now please do not say I never gave you anything... enjoy

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8655881191636417153&q=What+The+Bleep

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 2

RE: Reality - 2/13/2007 2:33:32 AM

Quivver

Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
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Riot, ~what the bleep~ is the best answer anyone can give you.
but I prefer the book.

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 3

RE: Reality - 2/13/2007 2:44:03 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
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A person's perceptions is their reality. i try to live by the rule that if i cannot change my reality i can always change my perception.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 4

RE: Reality - 2/13/2007 4:40:46 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
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Your reality is whatever you make/accept it to be.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 5

RE: Reality - 2/13/2007 5:33:06 AM

adaddysgirl

Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
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You must have read my mind because i was thinking something very similar to this just yesterday. i don't know what made me start thinking that what most people present on here is their reality....what they do in the reality of their relationship....and their lives. Where the arguments comes in is when someone tries to force their reality on someone else...or think their reality is 'the only real way'. (Clear as mud, no?)

In any event, i found this link quite interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_tunnel

But even with that, it is something i still need to ponder further. Good question Riot!

DG

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 6

RE: Reality - 2/13/2007 5:37:28 AM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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It’s been a busy day at work and I am late getting out of there. A friend is flying in to visit and now I am going to be late picking her up at the airport. I want to get there on time, but I stick to the speed limit, stop at all the red lights and stop signs even though doing those things will delay me further.
Does it matter if I don’t want to obey traffic laws but obey them anyway?
Am I really a safe driver?

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 7

RE: Reality - 2/13/2007 5:47:30 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
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Everyone's reality is different. Really!

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 8

RE: Reality - 2/13/2007 6:06:31 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
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So if everyone’s reality is based on their perspective, then there is no universal reality? No universal truth? There are no lies and nothing in life is really real.

After i laid down last night, i realized that i might of sounded confusing. So i have a better question.

If Master says this is reality - is it reality or is there a universal reality AND if reality is based all on perspective/our life experiences - how does one know how far off their reality is from the universal reality? AND if my reality is that its ok to burn down buildings, i will end up in jail - so there has to be some sort of universal reality. Yet what makes it a universal reality? Is it a consensus? "if everyone that walks of a cliff falls, then the reality is if you walk off a cliff you fall" Does reality have to be a total consensus? How many have to agree to a reality to MAKE it a reality? Who says their reality is the reality, anyways?

Is it a slaves job to accept their Masters reality? If Master said the sky was Purple and that is his/her reality, does that make it a slaves reality? Especially if reality is all based on perspective. Should a slave inact faith when it comes to accepting their Dom's reality? Or should a slave continue searching for the universal reality? Except, what is the universal reality?

Thanks for the links - i'll check them out

P.S. my dog has MAJOR gas - omg

edit - spell check

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 2/13/2007 6:09:39 AM >

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 9

RE: Reality - 2/13/2007 6:31:35 AM

lateralist1

Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

We live in a society governed by laws. It's a good thing to follow the ones that we think are right and the ones that we don't want to get caught breaking or at least live with the consequences.
However the rest is up to us. We don't have to live as the others live.
Just one example. When I turn on the hot tap I don't get hot water. If I want hot water I boil a kettle or I put the emersion heater on and wait an hour.
That is my reality until I can afford solar heating.
What I want is a relationship where if I say it happens then it happens. Unless there is a very good reason why it can't then I want to know that reason as soon as possible.
It's that simple.
I want that to be my reality.
That is D/s for me.

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 10

RE: Reality - 2/13/2007 8:57:42 AM

adaddysgirl

Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

So if everyone’s reality is based on their perspective, then there is no universal reality? No universal truth? There are no lies and nothing in life is really real.

After i laid down last night, i realized that i might of sounded confusing. So i have a better question.

If Master says this is reality - is it reality or is there a universal reality AND if reality is based all on perspective/our life experiences - how does one know how far off their reality is from the universal reality? AND if my reality is that its ok to burn down buildings, i will end up in jail - so there has to be some sort of universal reality. Yet what makes it a universal reality? Is it a consensus? "if everyone that walks of a cliff falls, then the reality is if you walk off a cliff you fall" Does reality have to be a total consensus? How many have to agree to a reality to MAKE it a reality? Who says their reality is the reality, anyways?

Is it a slaves job to accept their Masters reality? If Master said the sky was Purple and that is his/her reality, does that make it a slaves reality? Especially if reality is all based on perspective. Should a slave inact faith when it comes to accepting their Dom's reality? Or should a slave continue searching for the universal reality? Except, what is the universal reality?

Riot,

If you go to the link i provided, you might also want to scroll down and click on 'consensus reality'. i think it kind of addresses what you are asking here.

i'm still thinking though! (See the smoke comin' out of my ears? lol)

DG

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 11

RE: Reality - 2/13/2007 9:01:21 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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I'm not going to get into this in detail, but I can give you a few good source books if you "really" want to get into these questions on a philosophical level.

I tend to lean towards the pragmatist perspective of reality, with William James as the guide and a heavy dash of Hilary Putnam.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to adaddysgirl)

Post #: 12

RE: Reality - 2/13/2007 9:19:47 AM

bludemonn

Posts: 2619
Joined: 9/10/2006
Status: offline

Dear Riot,

Being a Pirate, demon, demonologist, psychonaught and various other stuff i do understand your question.. did that help? Oh right you wanna answer..k..here goes:

Some would say Reality was just plain fact, you are born, you start to grow depending on the physics around you i.e. light, heat, gravity, water, food etc so from that distinction you could say that reality was a factual conciousness in which we all grow, by law of physics.

The trouble with that is on closer inspection you can work out that life as we know it is all learned behaviour, we are taught about pain, warmth, language, perception, we are taught a reality, little bit like how children are so much more open to psychic phenomena as oposed to adults who are told that certain things do not exist and are given plausible reasoning for this thus creating a different reality.

True if we did not ever interact with others then we would all have our own unique reality of things defined by our perception but when we are in a group or society we will all agree to meet at that baseline in order to communicate i.e. using language and understanding this will create another reality we can work with.

Most people have a public and private side so you could say 2 realities, the trick is to learn how to switch between those 2 conciousnesses. Conciousness IS the key to reality, some civilisations and groups will often attempt to induce a different form of conciousness in order to connect with a different reality for a common purpose.

My personal take on this is that we are like Computers but reality is our operating system, if we wish to communicate we kinda need to be on that same platform, if we wish to create our own unique outlook we learn how to switch to a new operating system as and when it suits us. Everything in this atmosphere is learned.

_____________________________

A hopeless dreamer she said, eyes of cloud and feet of lead.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 13

RE: Reality - 2/13/2007 11:09:56 AM

SirDominic

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Joined: 11/22/2006
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Waaaaay to complicated a question to answer in a paragraph or two. Will say this, though. Physical realities are relatively immutable. You can say "My reality is that I can fly" all you want, but if you leap off a ten story building, you are going to fall to your death. Physical realities tend to be universal.

Realities inside your head are based on many factors, biological, environmental, etc. Those realities can be changed. Think you are too shy, and you will be. That reality can be changed though, depending on what amount of work you are willing to put into it.

As for accepting a Dom's realities as your own, that really depends on the two individuals, and how their relationship interrelates.

As for universal truths within a society, reality is defined by the laws of the land. Whether those laws are made up by a group of legislators or a dictator, they are the reality of that land. Believe what you want personally, if you break the law, it is that reality you will deal with.

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to bludemonn)

Post #: 14

RE: Reality - 2/13/2007 11:22:21 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
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Thank you all for answering, after having a great conversation - i found my answer.

It is not a slaves job to accept their Master's reality/truth as their own (unless told so) and then of course reality being subjective....

Whats in my head is abit more complicated and confusing then what i put here.... but needless to say, i got my answer.

Thank you all for your help in trying to figure out what reality is and how it pertains to M/s

(in reply to SirDominic)

Post #: 15

RE: Reality - 2/13/2007 11:36:32 AM

adaddysgirl

Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline

Hey wait a minute....i'm not done yet! lol

Something else i'd like to throw in the mix. For many years now, i have realized that every person on this planet has their 'own agenda'. i mean look around you...here....in RL...at your neighbors...your siblings...etc. They all have their own agenda....their way of living...their way of doing things....their individual goals...etc....which may or may not align with yours....which means no one is really right or wrong...just different.

i guess this has effected me most in trying to find a partner. i do try to find one with a similar agenda, so to speak. Now if your own agenda translates into your own reality, and your agenda/reality pretty much match my own....then that works for me. Actually, i do think this is a bit simplistic on my part but again, i am still giving this more thought.

But i am curious on what answer you arrived at. i know it can't be as simple as that one line in your last post

DG

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 16

RE: Reality - 2/13/2007 12:12:30 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
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LOL - sorry.

i've thought about all of this sort of stuff for a long time. Life is merely perspective, there is no universal right or wrong - no judgement has any universal merit (as its all subjective). I agree that everyone has their own agenda, i respect it. The only thing about agenda's is how far others are willing to push/manipulate to succeed.

As for my question, it was alot more personally based on my relationships as i was trying to sort some things out. Of course it all came down to reality, so i used that angle to broach the subject. So my question was/is "Is a Master's reality, a slaves reality? Is their truth the slaves truth? " and of course.... what is reality? How do you sort through living in a fantasy land or not?? Especially since everything is SO subject. Does it even matter? More along those lines....

So anyways..... reality IS perspective, subjective, based on life's experiences - yet at the same time we should respect each other's realities - as its all valid. Just like we all have our own truth.

And as a slave - its not my job to accept with out question the Master's reality. Or his truth. i may have my truth, he is truth, you your truth and so on. Yet, does that make it a fantasy land? Does it matter?

See if there is some sort of universal reality, then the answer would be "no" one doesnt have to accept it. You accept whats real. Point blank. But if there isnt.......... what is valid in a M/s relationship? Does it come down to obeying?

bah - i'm tired and i havent eaten since noon. i'm not feeling like i am making much sense and i'm confusing myself. I'll try and make more sense later

(in reply to adaddysgirl)

Post #: 17

RE: Reality - 2/13/2007 12:22:23 PM

adaddysgirl

Posts: 1093
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From: Syracuse, NY
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i think before i could get into a deeper response to you, i had to figure out all this 'reality' business. i first had to define what that meant before i could apply it to any relationship. Once i had a better handle on that, then i could apply it to what it meant as far as M/s (as the way i would see it, of course).

No doubt, reality is tricky business. But i'm going to think more about it in regards to M/s now that i've had some time to better define reality (at least to some degree). So i will probably be writing more on it

BTW....i really love this "Life is merely perspective" and will be thinking more on that too

DG

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 18

RE: Reality - 2/13/2007 12:25:24 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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I think I understand what you are questioning "maybe"...smiles

Lately I have been doing a lot of intentional creating of my reality. At first I felt this might be antithetical to a Ds relationship. I cannot create in his reality, but that would also mean he cannot create in mine. We cannot break with the laws of the universe to fulfill our desires I suppose.. no one can create the reality of another person, no one. We can allow ourselves to believe another can create our reality though.

We can cocreate with each other. We can decide that we want the same things and work toward accomplishing these goals. But the reality we experience is still very much an individual creation. I do not know if this is what you were thinking about or not...lol

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 19

RE: Reality - 2/13/2007 2:58:13 PM

Sunshine119

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Joined: 8/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

So anyways..... reality IS perspective, subjective, based on life's experiences - yet at the same time we should respect each other's realities - as its all valid. Just like we all have our own truth.

"Reality", "Perspective", "Subjective" and "Experiential" are all different words, with different meanings. Therefore, they are not all the same.

In a society, we can't all have our own truth. My truth could be "killing is a positive experience, which builds good character". Your truth could be "killing is wrong and only builds negative character". Obviously, they both cannot be "true". Relativism is a poor substitute for anyone having a backbone and declaring what they believe to be true.

Rather than discuss and debate issues and the possibility of what universal truths there may be, it is easier to cop out and just say everyone has their own point of view. This leads to anarchy.

Consequently, it would seem that there are necessarily universal truths, of which we may have little knowledge, yet they exist all the same. We need to discuss, debate, toss out what doesn't work, keep what does and move ever more slowly toward knowledge. That is, unless you prefer chaos.

Which, on some days, I certainly do!

_____________________________

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 20

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