quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

This is an interesting topic for me because one of my very first scenes went very, VERY badly because I was both too inexperienced and too "high" to properly protect myself during the scene. It's been a year now and I still haven't completely overcome the effects of so much going wrong so quickly. I was really terrified to ever trust anyone enough again, however it was only through trying again that I could learn enough about my limits, boundaries etc... to trust again.

Anyway, enough of that. YES, if you are new negotiate your scenes completely. Even if you leave wishing or wanting more, it's FAR better than wishing you had had far less. If you have absolutely no idea because it's all so new, what you will and won't like and what you can tolerate, better to try one thing or just a few new things at a time. Once you know yourself and your limits a little better, and once you have gotten to know the top and how they play and how you react to him/her, then you can begin to engage in scenes with less and less negotiation.

As far as subspace and the inability to negotiate goes....you should definately make hard limits known up front and if sex is one of them, make sure that is understood. Also, don't be vague about what you consider to be sex. Be specific; do you mean only penile/vaginal penetration, or ALL penetration? What about forced masturbation or vaginal stimulation? etc.... Don't leave things nebulous and then get upset afterwards. Subspace will lower your ability to know and understand what you do and dont' want, can and can't handle. At the time, in that state, you can handle it. Afterward though, the reality of it can be tough to deal with.

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Celeste,

Sleeping with a woman drunk out of her mind isn't rape, it might be wrong, is certainly stupid, but isn't legally considered prima facia of rape anywhere that I know of.

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

.... However, I don't negotiate scenes like that, I tend to say "do  you want to play, yes/no" and go from there.

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ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

You guys have to be kidding. Half the yearly births in the western hemisphere can be attributed to dads and moms over the legal alcohol limit. If we start going to court over all those, we are going to need way more lawyers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

If he stumbles across an emotional trigger, I go nonverbal and rigid. I'm unable to talk for fear of drawing attention and anger directed towards me. I'm also pretty nonverbal in subspace but then I sound druggy and answers come several minutes after the question with no real relation to what I was asked.

Anybody who crossed a line when I was obviously unable to give consent is someone I would seriously consider hunting down and braining with a frying pan. It's like having sex with someone totally drunk. Legally they are unable to give consent and that makes it rape. The fact they were unable to speak and say no, or run away doesn't mean they consented.

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

drunk is not the same as passed out.  If the other two standards are asleep and unconscius, "passed out due to drinking" would be the equivelent, not simply drunk.

The way the original poster put it, was more along the lines of statutory rape, meaning the only thing that mattered is someone is under 18 and if you do them it is rape, no if, ands, or buts.

In the case of drinking, there is no law that states past a certain BOC that you can no longer consent, pass out and you can't but as long as you are standing and sluring your words, you can claim rape, but you can do that sober.  The issue was whether or not it was prima facia evidence of rape and it isn't.