RE: Negotiating During a Scene?

RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion

Message

CreativeDominant -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/12/2007 5:00:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needdiscipline23 On another thread, someone mentioned that if a scene was not negotiated beforehand as including sex, but then went onto sex, with both parties consenting at that point, that they would feel that this bordered on non-consensual, b/c they had not negotiated it to be this way BEFORE they got into the scene, and potentially had their judgment altered or whatnot. This is something that never occurred to me before, and I'm curious about what others think: If your scene progresses to a point that was not negotiated, but you do not use a safe word, and in fact, at the time, feel perfectly fine/happy/elated at where the scene is going, would that bother you later? Do you think you would feel violated (as a top or bottom) if you went beyond what was negotiated? Do you feel you can give consent even when in subspace, or the Dom/me equivalent? I assumed that consent was an ongoing thing--it would not occur to me to be offended at someone going beyond what had been negotiated if I was indicating that I wanted to as well, but perhaps this is again my inexperience talking here, so I'm curious about what y'all think. As someone noted, tis not always black and white...there is room for plenty of shades of gray. I went to see a submissive once and played with her in every which way that had been negotiated. Didn't violate her safeword...didn't even ask...never used a toy that we had not discussed prior. Play = Good Sex = Good Aftercare = As negotiated, which included us spending the night in the same bed and my holding her all night....calming her down when she woke up scared/trembling/unsure/etc. Long story short, as I have discussed this before on a different thread, I had my toy bag dropped by my head the next morning to wake me up and was told I had 15 min. to get dressed and get gone or she was calling the cops and showing them the "marks" I had left on her during my "forceful assault on her non-willing body". I left. Another submissive (before the one above) who decided during play that she did want sex...I went for it...next day, her complaint was not the sex but the marks left by a new toy which she had wanted used on her. Of course, I went home that night after the play and the sex...had to work the next day...she was aware and O.K. with it but something did not go as she wanted as those marks made her extremely angry and I have never heard from her since. Everything negotiated...threatened with rape. Things done that were not negotiated...they weren't part of the problem...marks that had been negotiated were. In the "rape" case, I did not know the submissive that well. In the "marks" case, I knew her very well. You can do everything right and it will bite you. You can do everything wrong and it will bite you. Since I have seen the vice-versa to be true...doing everything right and not having it bite you...more often than I have seen the doing everything wrong and not having it bite you...I choose now to do everything as "right" as possible. What is negotiated beforehand, I stick to. And if I am going to be playing with someone that I do not know as well as I feel comfortable in my heart at the idea of being alone with, I play with them publicly or with a friend present. If they do not go for that, then I do not play.

texancutie -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/12/2007 5:05:19 PM)
Sounds similar to an experience I had alandra. Thank goodness we learn from them and move on. Edited to add, I didn't feel elated or happy that time though. But that is in the past anyway. Now that I am in a relationship with someone local to me, and I have known him almost a year now. We don't negotiate, though we do discuss things upfront and we spend a lot of time together non scene wise. He knows me well enough to understand what I can and cannot handle. Though he does push limits of course. He just doesn't push them in a bad way. And if anything negative were to happen because I hate to never say never (and Dominants are not mind readers), I am strong enough to let him know and we will deal with it together. But if I were to scene with someone new, darn tooting, everything will be negotiated! And we will discuss the fact that when I am in subspace, I probably will not be able to use my best judgement. So don't ask me to do things non negotiated then. But then again, sometimes I really can't even talk well at that point, if at all. Just all depends. Though I do doubt I would ever go that deeply into "subspace" with a casual play partner anyway. I need that deep mental and emotional connection to get there, combined with things that get my endorphins flying. But being a newbie, time will tell if it will happen with someone new during casual play. Maybe it will since my Dominant will be there with me.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/12/2007 5:05:24 PM)
The only person I have ever thrown out of a group was a woman who "always" got her boundaries violated during scenes. Being a top (or whatever badge you want to hang on it) is a risky business. Stuff goes wrong, we are the captain of the ship and right or wrong, we get the lions share of the blame. What I think needs to be remember and is almost always distorted because of the "purity" (meaning its easy to never makes mistakes if you never actually do anything) of cyber and their clamming for perfection is what blame really means. If I am sceneing with someone and it goes badly because of some minor issue, I am "wrong" but it should just be a smudge on my reputation, not something deserving of drawing and quartering. Same goes if you push someone a bit, depending on circumstances. However, if someone is "always" or at least often having scenes go bad with various partners, somebody needs to set them down and explain a few things to them. Some boundaries are bigger than others, penetrating or being far more sexual than negotiated is pretty serious and should be dealt with a fairly strong warning. However, we need to leave room for mistakes (play gets boring otherwise) and growth. Considerign the mistakes I have made, based on how some here act, I should be drawn and quartered twice but those same mistakes got me where I am today.

alandraofMists -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/12/2007 5:37:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Confronted as the top, I'd point to "safe-word" escape clause for top exemption of responsibility. Prearranged "hard limits"? Just look at how many have posted they are relieved and overjoyed that some tops took them beyond their pre-negotiated limits. In this instance, based upon the information disclosed, "after-care" may not have been given but the scene ended with her; "elated and happy". Just because there is successful pushing of limits with some does not mean that it is justified to do that in any circumstance. What was discussed was a short and simple play session with one toy; however towards the end of the play another toy was introduced without discussion. The elation after play ...can be caused by the chemical rush brought on by the play... once that rush cools down... it should be balanced by an emotional satisfaction of the play... in this case there was a lack of that balance because of the violation of trust. There was a close intimate connection with the top ... that is why the broken trust was so significant and why there was such impact on me... i have played with several different tops... ironically the only one that has broken that trust is the one that had the closest relationship to my Lord and me. So having a close intimate relationship with the person does not mean it will not happen... it lessens the risk of it happening, but it can still happen. Finally ... a limit is a limit is a limit....if a limit is stated...it is not played past.... mind you with my Lord... the play is not limited on my part. With others i will have the limits that have been negotiated between the top and my Lord. Knight's alandra

alandraofMists -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/12/2007 5:48:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lateralist1 I don't want to sound critical but wasn't your Lord there to make sure that the top kept to the negotiated play absolutely? no, He was not there... the type of play that was negotiated and the trust that he had for the top.... there was no need for Him to be there. i have play on numerous occasions without my Lord present. this was that unforseen occurance of violated trust. Knight's alandra

needdiscipline23 -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/12/2007 7:20:28 PM)
This is all VERY interesting reading for me...as i've mentioned in other posts, i'm very new to the r/l scene, though i've been reading/lurking online for many years... The "top" that i "play" with (still working through all the jargon!) and i don't negotiate specific scenes. we've had several discussions about both of our hard limits (sex is one for me) and i cannot even imagine her crossing them. her philosophy is to take everything slow enough that i'm left wanting more at this point, rather than pushing anything much right now.... After reading this, if any of my hard limits were crossed during play, even if i didn't safe word out, i would feel violated...i can't really imagine that i would feel so violated as to threaten to contact the police or anything though, since in some way i DO feel like i would bear some responsibility for consenting--similar to having too much to drink and having sex--no a responsible person shouldn't take advantage of it, but i don't think you'd be breaking the law by having sex with someone who was drunk (though, again, you would be opening yourself up to the possibility of lawsuit in either case, i'd think) So, based on what i'm reading, i'm thinking that if a scene goes beyond negotiation (which for myself, i'm expanding to include not only specific discussion of the scene, but also any hard limits that have been discussed) i think that IS a violation, but one that both parties bear responsibility for....?

SimplyMichael -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/12/2007 7:40:36 PM)
23, I think you have a pretty good grasp of things. What is hard to convey is any given posters genuine experience or lack thereoff, their actual level of skill at doing all this. Plus the experience level of who they are playing with. If for example, someone I didn't know (thus a blank slate in my mind) played with someone I knew to be inexperienced and the dominant did either a pisspoor job of negotiating and or blew past whatever was negotiated, I would take a VERY dim view of that. However, if a submissive had been around, been to parties and agreed to play with someone well known as a sadist who likes to push boundaries and she/he came to me afterwards to complain I would look at them and ask what they hell they were thinking! Even then, if someone made it VERY clear what they were and were NOT agreeing to in the above case and things went south, I would certainly take the top aside and check in to see what happened because that would send up a red flag. Twice at parties I have reached out and grabbed a woman's hair without negotiating. Once the response was "not here" and she went and quickly found us a private room and she was a Domme! Another time, I did the same thing to a submissive who I was sure gave me a passive okay and well, either she never expected me to follow through or I fucked up. Shit happens, but again, in that case, people knew I misjudged the situation but if a newbie did that he would be castrated, I was just embarassed. Context, history, and percieved motive add a lot to the context.

Tamerofwild1s -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/12/2007 8:42:32 PM)
Very interesting reading to say the least . I do like all the views I have seen here and they present something to ponder during scenes ... I suspect at some given time in every Tops life they havecome across some form of these thnigs.

kate -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/12/2007 9:58:19 PM)
very interesting read....it makes me a little bit glad i live in such a small city...if you are playing with someone chances are it is not a one time thing...with so few people here it isn't exactly likley you will find a bunch of new partners to play with..... but with that said...i would feel horrible if anything happned that i was not ready for or had not agreed to....trust is soooo important here and learning that i coulden't trust someone i was playing with would crush me..... it takes a lot to earn my trust, and i don't play with those i don't trust..... comunicaton is key!....safe words are not a fall back plan

dakotabo -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/13/2007 3:43:29 AM)
I have so many questions! What is a scene exactly? What is a Top or Bottom? Elaborate on Safe word someone please, Is a hard Limit something that will absolutely NOT be done? What is SUBSPACE? Or being OUT OF IT? Yes I am very very new to all of this, have had very little experience. I am not quite catching on to all the terms I see on this site, intuiting them is not 100% so would really like things clairified. Forgive me if this might be the wrong place to ask these questions? Its just the spot I happend to find so much to ask about. It is a bit scary to me to think that if I negotiated something with someone that they would go past that if I was unable to answer that I didn't want them too, why I wouldn't be able to answer I am very curious of, as I saw that in several posts. Any answers would be greatly appreciated and also direction on where I can get even more information. Are their people on this site willing to answer ALL of my questions at great length? I learn better hands on so getting it by written word I will have many many more questions.......Ty in advance to any one who answers:) Blessed Be

twicehappy -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/13/2007 3:52:48 AM)
I have never negotiated a scene but then again i have never scened outside of my collar either. The first time Scooter and i scened was the day of my collaring, i was kneeling in front of him as he was putting wrist restraints on. He buckled the last buckle, grinned and asked "want to negotiate this now?". To which i replied no. His comment "Good because it is too late to now". PS: Happy Valentine's Anniversary Master and Mistress mine!

twicehappy -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/13/2007 3:54:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dakotabo I have so many questions! What is a scene exactly? What is a Top or Bottom? Elaborate on Safe word someone please, Is a hard Limit something that will absolutely NOT be done? What is SUBSPACE? Or being OUT OF IT? Please use the Easy Button. LA if you please?

dakotabo -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/13/2007 4:23:09 AM)
What is an easy button other then that stupid commercial; on tv. and what is mean by LA please?

Tamerofwild1s -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/13/2007 4:34:38 AM)
Trust is a dual edged sword .. the top trusts the bottom too .... trusts that if she says she has played with other she is telling the truth .... that she knows her limits and will express them and let you know that she has had enough. that if you leave a situation feeling good about it . that if their was indeed a problem you will go to that person and talk about it ..... that you in fact putting yourself in a situation as a bottom will assume some responsability for anything that happens ..... not all but some since you said yes to the actual playing. I do not say all this to take responsabilty away from the Top since as a Top it is my job to see that anything happening to you is safe for you and that you will suffer no permanent injuries and that after your still smiling and feeling good about anything that took place. everything seems to boil down to communication on both sides of the fence ... lets not instantly presume its always the Tops fault ... equal amounts of responsability should be thrown out if something goes wrong and open communications should be used if it doesn't to insure it will not happen again

Tamerofwild1s -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/13/2007 4:37:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dakotabo What is an easy button other then that stupid commercial; on tv. and what is mean by LA please? LOL .. the easy button isa direct reference to that commercial . press it and our resident informationalist Lucky Albatross will pop in and list a gabillion other forums topics covering any questions you might have with relevance to the question stated as in your case whats a Top or a scene

twicehappy -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/13/2007 4:53:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tamerofwild1s Trust is a dual edged sword .. Good morning cm teddy # 2, lol. I agree. I think in our case i had just accepted a collar as his slave. That would never have happened if i was not prepared to trust him with my life, period. At that point i knew he could and would always handle me most carefully. Scooter never ever breaks his toys, they are too valuable to him and he plans to play with them over and over again. (Lucky, lucky, happy me[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m9.gif[/image] ! ) For folks who play casually or outside an established relationship responsibility lies with both. The top needs to pay attention to the bottom, the bottom needs to be clear about their limits. Most importantly to my mind the bottom should check out the tops reputation before agreeing to scene.

TNstepsout -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/13/2007 5:25:23 AM)
This is an interesting topic for me because one of my very first scenes went very, VERY badly because I was both too inexperienced and too "high" to properly protect myself during the scene. It's been a year now and I still haven't completely overcome the effects of so much going wrong so quickly. I was really terrified to ever trust anyone enough again, however it was only through trying again that I could learn enough about my limits, boundaries etc... to trust again. Anyway, enough of that. YES, if you are new negotiate your scenes completely. Even if you leave wishing or wanting more, it's FAR better than wishing you had had far less. If you have absolutely no idea because it's all so new, what you will and won't like and what you can tolerate, better to try one thing or just a few new things at a time. Once you know yourself and your limits a little better, and once you have gotten to know the top and how they play and how you react to him/her, then you can begin to engage in scenes with less and less negotiation. As far as subspace and the inability to negotiate goes....you should definately make hard limits known up front and if sex is one of them, make sure that is understood. Also, don't be vague about what you consider to be sex. Be specific; do you mean only penile/vaginal penetration, or ALL penetration? What about forced masturbation or vaginal stimulation? etc.... Don't leave things nebulous and then get upset afterwards. Subspace will lower your ability to know and understand what you do and dont' want, can and can't handle. At the time, in that state, you can handle it. Afterward though, the reality of it can be tough to deal with.

Mariposa -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/13/2007 5:35:57 AM)
I'm fine consenting to pushing limits while in a scene, but I also find that I seldom regret anything pleasurable.

dakotabo -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/13/2007 5:47:50 AM)
ty for some answers!! Still not quite sure what subspace is..... Is this a kind of euphoric trance type of feeling? And how does one get into such a headspace? And I how the heck do I find someone in my area that can help me understand all of this better?

heartfeltsub -> RE: Negotiating During a Scene? (2/13/2007 6:22:53 AM)
Google, look to see if there is a local group near your area. Read. there are lots of excellent books that are very helpful.

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.03125