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Self Control - 1/23/2007 7:33:32 AM   
Devilslilsister


Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		i've heard on these boards "a submissive must have self control in order to give that control to her/his Dominant"

i've never believed it (mainly because i have little self control) and at the same time wondered what truth there was in it.  The answer dawned on me last night as i was working on falling asleep. 

i dont need great amounts of self control to give to my Dominant to give him my control.  Infact its the opposite.  He gives me HIS control.  It seems to me that in many things i do, my Master's control over rides any lack of self control i have.  Even God forbid, my crazy emotions, Master is better at controlling them then i am.   When it comes to simple things like getting good rest.  I totally lack self control to go to bed at a reasonable time and fall asleep at a reasonable time.  Yet Master's control has overided my control and not only am i going to bed at an appropriate time, but now i am falling asleep at an appropriate time.  When i didnt have the self control to stop drinking like a slush.  Master's control overided any lack of mine and problem solved. 

It seems to work that way in any hurdle i have seen in my past.  Master, literally, gives my life control that i am unable give. 

So i'm going to disagree with the statement that a submissive must have self control in order to give it to her Dominant.  i believe the statement is false and at the very least not an absolute.

Thoughts - Opionons - Disagreements?


_____________________________

My ability to cope with BS is at an all time low - me

i may look like i'm doing nothing, but i'm very busy at a cellular level
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RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 7:45:36 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Strong relationships take strong people.

I often tease that "Discipline" is the forgotten D in BDSM.  No one seems to care about people actually holding to their standards of behavior and training themselves to be in control of their behavior.

You say you totally lack self control- then why did you start that thread ASKING us for ways in which to help you stick to your rules?  If it has nothing to do with you, what would any of our advice do? 

YOU are the one who must follow orders, YOU are the one who must express your discipline.

A slave without self control cannot be trusted to follow any orders or be consistent in anything.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Devilslilsister)
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RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 8:00:32 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Oh and to add that if a person does not have control of themselves, it makes informed consent fairly meaingless and allows the slave to simply lay about and say "Well I'm helpless" and not take any responsibility.

And quite frankly I find it disturbing that a woman responsible for a small child and pregnant with another is saying that they have very little self control.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Devilslilsister)
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RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 8:30:26 AM   
Kondolinni


Posts: 67
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline 		I won't be so harsh in my judgement. I also agree, however, that any person with whom I would be inclined to interact with in the lifestyle would have, by definition, fairly well developed self-control.

I don't think you neccesarily implied that you have no control over yourself in ALL facets of your life and your relationship with your Dom. You might want to correct that and specify where you do have some self control, like in deciding what is right and safe for you as a healthy human being.

Otherwise, the standing implicaton is you may have no knowledge of what is being done to you. If you can't see to your own safety, how can you be responsible for the lives and welfare of children?

I know that isn't what you meant.

Care to clarify?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 8:38:01 AM   
Devilslilsister


Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		LMAO - ok so i have SOME self control.  The point wasnt that i lack self control in all areas of my life, just in some.  That a person neednt have complete self control in order to give it up.  But then who does? 

I was just flipping the orginal sentence around and using personal experience backing up my findings!  Sheesh. 

Maybe i come here because i'm pro active.... ha HA! (lolol)

Em, you can find it disturbing all you like = )  Unfortunetly my track record as a mother is pretty damn good and it speaks for itself.  Hell, others speak for it. 

I think the one and two does not equal three.  Being a mother is completely aside from being anything else.  i am multi faceted.  Like most people. 

I also find it highly disturbing that you feel the need to attack me about mother hood on a BDSM website.  Tsk Tsk. 

My small child is also not a small child (just ask her) and she would tell you that you are being rude and mean.  She would furthermore look at me and say "we dont like mean people" give a yucky face and wave her hand in the air to ward you off.  But of course, she has high standards and has no problem calling out others when they are falling below the accepted par.  ::smiles:: You should hear what she has to say when she's been interrupted.  Boy is she cute, and i tell ya, i've never had a complaint about her.  Course her teacher says she's abit talkative, but i think thats genetics = )

Now that you are taken care of, we can get off the topic of "me" and get back to the thread!


_____________________________

My ability to cope with BS is at an all time low - me

i may look like i'm doing nothing, but i'm very busy at a cellular level

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 8:50:29 AM   
Devilslilsister


Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kondolinni

I won't be so harsh in my judgement. I also agree, however, that any person with whom I would be inclined to interact with in the lifestyle would have, by definition, fairly well developed self-control.

I don't think you neccesarily implied that you have no control over yourself in ALL facets of your life and your relationship with your Dom. You might want to correct that and specify where you do have some self control, like in deciding what is right and safe for you as a healthy human being.

Otherwise, the standing implicaton is you may have no knowledge of what is being done to you. If you can't see to your own safety, how can you be responsible for the lives and welfare of children?

I know that isn't what you meant.

Care to clarify?



Oh geez.  My bad, i didnt expect things to be taken so negative.  Sheesh.  I've lots of good self control, but its honestly something i've never taken time to ponder.  i dont really bother myself about the better half of myself.  Lets see, i know whats right and wrong, i try to be intelligent about the things i do. 

Ah - i havent a clue!  i dont pay attention to my postive attributes.  But i do know that i am intelligent and i generally do the right thing.  Anything i think up that might show "good self control" to me is just really "intelligence" .  Damn i hate being at a loss, any chance you have any suggestions on what "good self control is"??  Cos really it all seems to just be intelligence we're debating here. 

< Message edited by Devilslilsister -- 1/23/2007 8:52:28 AM >

_____________________________

My ability to cope with BS is at an all time low - me

i may look like i'm doing nothing, but i'm very busy at a cellular level

(in reply to Kondolinni)
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RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 8:57:07 AM   
Kondolinni


Posts: 67
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline 		It may not have seemed so, but I was mostly on your side.

So, to the point:

Rejoice. That your Dom has the strength in exactly the right proportion to offset your weaknesses is fortuitous. As long as what you exchange remains fairly balanced, I say count your lucky stars.



(in reply to Devilslilsister)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 9:05:33 AM   
MaryT


Posts: 553
Joined: 12/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Strong relationships take strong people.


Yes, I think so too.  Relationships are hard. 

I exercise control when it comes to performance (grades in school, excelling at work), meeting obligations and the like.  I'm not so good when it comes to things like nicotine and getting enough exercise.  With certain emotional challenges, I tend to retreat ... which is giving up control entirely or taking control entirely, depending on how you look at it.

MaryT

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 9:09:04 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister

So i'm going to disagree with the statement that a submissive must have self control in order to give it to her Dominant.  i believe the statement is false and at the very least not an absolute.

Thoughts - Opionons - Disagreements?



I think for a decent (or anything better than decent) quality of submission there has to be a fair amount of self-control.  I also think that to be able to provide any sort of quality service there definitely needs to be self-control. 

I don't believe self-control is required for submission, but when I start thinking about quality of submission (I don't believe that all submission is a good quality of submission), I do see it as a necessary component.

C~

Edited to add: I think there are other components to a decent (at least) quality of submission, I'm just focusing on self-control since thats the jist of the topic.


< Message edited by Wildfleurs -- 1/23/2007 9:10:17 AM >

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

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(in reply to Devilslilsister)
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RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 9:32:05 AM   
Devilslilsister


Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		Ah well i see where my brilliant idea went wrong.  i suppose i do have some self control and that it is brought to the table.  Just like everyone else and as you put it Kondolinni everyone has strengths and weakness.

::sigh:: just when i thought i could prove something wrong! 

(aye and i did know you werent attacking me, which is why i didnt respond in the same manner and tried to answer your questions.  Which i did completely appreciate you saying what you did.  You helped me think things out, instead of get defensive)


_____________________________

My ability to cope with BS is at an all time low - me

i may look like i'm doing nothing, but i'm very busy at a cellular level

(in reply to Kondolinni)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 10:24:07 AM   
Squeakers


Posts: 489
Joined: 10/3/2006
Status: offline 		    I look at self-control this way---I obey because I want to and I am ultimately in control of my behavior.   When I personally picture lack of self control, I see a defiant child saying, "Make me."   IMO, when I picture this in a D/s setting with two adults, I see it only as topping from the bottom.   "Master, I want you to control me and because I am not able to control myself, I am going to top from the bottom and force you to control me."   So who really is in charge?  
   Yes, at times, I have been in a sub space mode---there is no mental reasoning.   I simply go through the motions because I am in overload and he therefore is in control, but---I first allowed myself to get into that mode and trust him enough to take charge when my mental reasoning is temporarily not functioning.  
    In regards to the OP, sorry but IMO, you don't seem to be very fair to yourself or to Your Master.  
quote:

When it comes to simple things like getting good rest.  I totally lack self control to go to bed at a reasonable time and fall asleep at a reasonable time.  Yet Master's control has overided my control and not only am i going to bed at an appropriate time, but now i am falling asleep at an appropriate time.  When i didnt have the self control to stop drinking like a slush.  Master's control overided any lack of mine and problem solved. 
   So without your Master, you would never go to bed on time and begin drinking like a 'slush' because he was not there to control that action?   Did he tie you to a bed and give you a drug to 'force' you into slumber and did he keep you confined in order not to obtain any alcohol.   You did these actions on your own because you wanted to.   He asked, you obeyed.    I don't see it as fair to either him or yourself, to 'need' him to demand you to do things you are totally capable of doing yourself.   If you need to go to bed at a reasonable hour because you must work and you are drinking in an irresponsible manner, for goodness sakes be an adult and be responsible for your own actions.   Being a submissive does not mean you must act as a child.  

(in reply to Devilslilsister)
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RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 10:36:18 AM   
Devilslilsister


Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		ahhhhhhhh phooooooooooey

thats most likely right.  i would not go to bed at a reasonable time.  I have quite often in the past thought to myself "hey i can pull an all niter!"  or  "hey i can work on 3 hours of sleep" 

sure and when i went out, i'd of kept drinking like i drank.  i have absolutetly noooo problem with it.  Granted i didnt go out much - like once every few months.. but thats not the point.

Like i said, i see i was wrong.  Obviously he hasnt forced me to do anything, i must have some control to do obey and not do as i please.   Lets stop making it all about "me" EH EH EH EH?

no back to the regularly viewed show!




_____________________________

My ability to cope with BS is at an all time low - me

i may look like i'm doing nothing, but i'm very busy at a cellular level

(in reply to Squeakers)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 10:43:15 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline 		i like to think of it as lack of personal motivation...rather than a lack of self control.  When i had a partner, he motivated me (in his own way....usually involving a discipline spanking) to change undesirable behavior.  Yes, that included drinking, bed times, procrastination, always being late, swearing too much, overspending, etc.  i guess i just wasn't much motivated to make those changes myself and since he so willingly chose to take on the responsibility...well, it just worked for us 
 
i think you are lucky to find a Master like that.  Good for you! 
 
Daddysgirl

(in reply to Devilslilsister)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 10:49:17 AM   
Devilslilsister


Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		LOL yes yes, you are probably correct.  One of my flaws i have always noted.  Lack of personal motivation.  If its for "me" you can bet your buck it wont get done, if its for some one else, you can bet your buck it will.  I will clean a friends house before i clean my own. 

I am lucky that he so willingly picks up my personal slack.  (sometimes i wish he wouldnt, but it is as he pleases and he if he doesnt like something, he changes it)

The only reason i go for walks is because my dog is getting over weight and its bad for her health.  ha!  

i used to swear alot more too...... watched a video i made of myself when i was 14, and holy cow what a mouth i had!  i still back slide and cuss at times....... sometimes more then others..... 

okkkkkkkkkkkk

so my whole theory on self control has been blown to bits.  i completely stand corrected and feel dweeb to boot.


_____________________________

My ability to cope with BS is at an all time low - me

i may look like i'm doing nothing, but i'm very busy at a cellular level

(in reply to adaddysgirl)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 11:10:59 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline 		Eh, that's alright.  You see, when i was single, if i wanted to get smashed, i did.  If i wanted to swear, i did.  Like you, if i wanted to go to bed late, i did (and then would get up late for work...lol).  There were a whole bunch of things that i did just because well, i could....and there was really no motivation not to.  Well, since he didn't like those things, he took full responsibility for helping me to change, in his way. 
 
i contemplated the idea of it being lack of self control and i just concluded it wasn't that (or not for the most part anyway)....i just really had little reason to change.  So would i have continued those behaviors without his 'influence' (lol)......yes, i do believe so.  As a matter of fact, since i am single now, i drink when i want, swear, go to bed waaayyy to late, etc.  Maybe that will change again someday (with proper motivation of course) 
 
It's funny that subs are so quick to say they give up complete control to their doms, but not self control.  Just another thing to ponder 
 
DG

(in reply to Devilslilsister)
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RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 11:47:40 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		i really hope i'm reading things wrong.  i don't want to have always be strong, i want it okay to be weak, i want it to be okay if i'm not in control, i want it to be okay to need someone sometimes.  i feel like i have to hide my flaws, my weaknesses, my out-of-control times. 

i want to know there is someone who is willing to pick me up when i fall and not stare down at me and tell me to get up dammit and quit sniveling.  i want someone to reign me in, not walk away.  i want someone to grab hold when the world gets too heavy. 

i want to be a soft place for a Dom to land, to pick Him up, to extend my hand, to ease His worries, take away His care.

So often it feels like i can be these things for Him but He can never be for me.  i'm starting to wonder if Dom/sub is just give and take?  sub gives, Dom takes?  i really hope i'm wrong.


_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to Devilslilsister)
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RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 11:52:21 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
i really hope i'm reading things wrong.  i don't want to have always be strong, i want it okay to be weak, i want it to be okay if i'm not in control, i want it to be okay to need someone sometimes.  i feel like i have to hide my flaws, my weaknesses, my out-of-control times. 

i want to know there is someone who is willing to pick me up when i fall and not stare down at me and tell me to get up dammit and quit sniveling.  i want someone to reign me in, not walk away.  i want someone to grab hold when the world gets too heavy. 

i want to be a soft place for a Dom to land, to pick Him up, to extend my hand, to ease His worries, take away His care.

So often it feels like i can be these things for Him but He can never be for me.  i'm starting to wonder if Dom/sub is just give and take?  sub gives, Dom takes?  i really hope i'm wrong.

No- saying a slave must "always have control" is as unrealistic and unnecessary as saying masters must "always have control."

I think the best relationships are when everyone takes care of everyone- including themselves.  It's all about finding a balance.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 11:56:51 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		No one is strong all the time. Everyone has moments of weakness and grief. It is at those times that we are there for our loved ones, and someone who isn't there for you when you are in need is someone you don't need in your life.

Sometimes we carry each other and sometimes all we need is a helping hand. Like showing up at the gym because you know your workout partner will be disappointed if you sleep in instead. By being there for each other, you both work harder than you would independently.

But it has to be pretty much even. If the sub always needs to be carried and isn't there for the dom when he's having a bad day, then resentment will occur. If the dom only cares about being served and obeyed and doesn't take care, then resentment will occur. Dom/sub.switch/vanilla doesn't matter, you get a healthy, strong relationship by doing things that make the relationship stronger. You both give, not just take.

(in reply to eyesopened)
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RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 12:03:19 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

i really hope i'm reading things wrong.  i don't want to have always be strong, i want it okay to be weak, i want it to be okay if i'm not in control, i want it to be okay to need someone sometimes.  i feel like i have to hide my flaws, my weaknesses, my out-of-control times. 

i want to know there is someone who is willing to pick me up when i fall and not stare down at me and tell me to get up dammit and quit sniveling.  i want someone to reign me in, not walk away.  i want someone to grab hold when the world gets too heavy. 

i want to be a soft place for a Dom to land, to pick Him up, to extend my hand, to ease His worries, take away His care.

So often it feels like i can be these things for Him but He can never be for me.  i'm starting to wonder if Dom/sub is just give and take?  sub gives, Dom takes?  i really hope i'm wrong.


I don't know that you are wrong...just possibly looking at it in a skewed manner.  IMHO, most dominants want a soft place to land but remember, these are not vanilla men...they are not necessarily going to "share" the root of their disquiet/stress/upset/anger in the same way that vanilla men are almost expected to.  A lot of them got away from the vanilla life partially because they were tired of all the Alan Alda B.S..  Remember too that, for many submissives, part of the reason they want a dominant man rather than a vanilla man in their life is not only the submissive's own love of kink but their need for a strong person in control of themselves and their emotions that they could yield their life...or aspects of it...to.  So dominants take yes, but they give too...they give that shoulder to lean on when the submissive is upset or unsure, they give when they provide the guidance when the submissive lacks the motivation, they give when their patience goes on when the submissive slips a bit whereas a lot of vanilla men...particularly nowadays...would say "what the fuck is up with that, stupid?", they give when they supply the discipline asked for to be harsh when the slip is due to carelessness or laziness or a want for the dominant to "do it all and take care of all".  Remember...D/s is NOT vanilla and what is being given and taken is most likely...though again, it varies from relationship to relationship...not going to be seen/observed/feel the same as vanilla.

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Self Control - 1/23/2007 12:17:46 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		To the OP: I've been reading your threads since you were Riotgirl, and I remember when you first became a CM member (really - I do). And, my opinion was then, and still is - that you are always way, way too hard on yourself.

That isn't a nice thing to do to yourself. STOP IT!!! Please? Give it a try - just for me? I know you don't know me, but I would truly sleep better at night if you just gave it a go, just for one day, say. Whaadya say?

Love,

Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 1/23/2007 12:22:59 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Devilslilsister)
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