RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (Full Version)

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petdave -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 5:42:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn
2.      An Unfortunate Corollary of the False Dichotomy. Because of the amount of these people who are vying for a dominant’s attention, there exists a new problem that I don’t think most women realize, or recognize. I’ll give an example rather than an explanation: As a service submissive, like I mentioned, my main desire in life is bringing happiness and comfort to the woman to whom I serve.That doesn’t mean that I don’t have BDSM desires as well. I just shut most of them off, or place them into a stable corner, so that I can focus on the woman completely and attempt to ignore my own fantasies. But that doesn’t mean they go away. After time, and I’m talking a long period of time, even the most dedicated service submissive starts to have personal needs as well, and quite often it is very difficult to bring them up because of that previous False Dichotomy, which immediately sheds a negative light on the service submissive who starts to show signs of wanting something different than just serving quietly without any wants and desires.


Interesting. i'm not in a situation where the concern has anything to do with the False Dichotomy, as you call it, but i experience a similar problem in being married, and, in a sense serving, a woman who is mostly vanilla. Being submissive and primarily service-oriented, i have a tremendous difficulty bringing up the issue that i desperately miss the physical side of BDSM, because obviously, if she has not initiated such, it would be nothing but an inconvenience for her, and so it is not my place to ask for it.

As for #4, again, i don't experience this in relation to other people, and so i wonder if you also experience dissatisfaction with your role if there is no reinforcement from the Dominant? Could you maintain a service-only role if there was BDSM "play" involved, but your service was otherwise taken for granted? i find that some sort of appreciation is necessary- obviously, it's not like i expect a cookie every time i wash the dishes, but there needs to be some kind of sign that my service is in fact making her happy, or else it loses all meaning.

Cheers,

...dave



slavejali -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 6:16:06 PM)

quote:

This thread has made me remember one person who came to me and insisted that he was only interested in taking care of my mundane chores around the house and the yard. Even when I asked if he wanted more, he insisted he didn't.

He didn't last long because he grew jealous of a new boy I was training and of the slave I all ready owned. He told me that I didn't pay enough attention to him and just treated like cheap labor.

HUH?

I asked him what he wanted in return for all this mundane work and if he wanted to go through my formal training to see if we might want more. He said "no" repeatedly.

I say if you are asked if you want more that you be honest about it.

I, personally, learned to not trust anyone who claimed they were "only a service" person or "only interested in mundane tasks".


That is so how I can see it playing out oftentimes...



Shadowsdream -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 6:19:23 PM)

Interesting thread...

Just last night, once again, I went out to dinner with a local submissive who professed his only desire was to be a service slave. Knowing this young man for three years, three dinners and many long online conversations and short play scenes in my home I do feel he has a value that will make some woman very happy in the long run.

He had asked me to put him in my black book of local submissives wanting to meet Dommes to serve in the hopes of finding a life partner, even though I was clear that the book was seldom used as few Mistress's need my help in finding service. The opportunity seldom comes up more than once a month and when it does it is generally for mundane reasons.

I asked him to be comprehensive about the services he could supply and enjoy and what he hoped to gain in return other than the opportunity to meet Mistress's. His reply was nothing more than the satisfaction of knowing he helped a woman to feel her power of domination.

Huh?

Being in a cranky mood for personal reasons I insisted that he be more honest about his expectations. At last he opened up and admitted that he would not serve in the capacities outlined for long if his other needs were not met. Finally some real honesty.

All "5" of the services that he "wanted" to supply are easily done moment by moment and do not require any extra help in my opinion. None of the tasks would have made my life easier or more fulfilling than doing them myself. Occassionally service outside of a committed relationship is not as satisfying as one might imagine.

My slave of 7 years is service oriented and a jewel I am fortunate to own. He makes my life more pleasant and easier which continually deepens the bond between us. He is almost everything I could want in a slave/man and I love him completely. Yet the one thing he has not yet been able to do for me is accept the amount of pain I need to give as a sadist.

Though we lived a 24/7 lifestyle in Stockholm for 3 years he was unable to follow me back to Canada when I returned in 2003. His physical service now is measured in months several times a year though he serves me as he can half a world away daily.

I have a submissive in Canada that is not service minded but he fulfills other needs I have, one of which is the role of masochist to my sadistic streaks. He fulfills me in ways just as important.

So after 7 years this slave and I are still committed to each other and the growth in our relationship which is D/s oriented. He knows and is friendly with my toy as well. Sometimes more than one slave or submissive under a single ownership is not about loss but about gain.

Something to consider.




DrgnLdyCatherine -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 6:20:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
I don't want to be mean...but seriously think about it logically. Anyone looking for a "service submissive" is just looking for some free labour cause they cant afford it or are unwilling to pay for it. Of course you're going to be pushed into the background...and unless your kink is purely "service" orientated (which I doubt many ppl are truthfully)..why the heck the need for anythign to do with BDSM at all..go work in a dog shelter.



Aww.. that hurts; it really does.  I was quite close with my last houseboy.  He was a service/domestic slave for us.  I wouldn't say that I was just looking for free labour.  I can certainly take care of myself, and have done so for years.  ;)  I look at it more like... well, let's put it this way.  I am a dog person.  I have many of them, and each of them has their own job, etc.  But I don't own them just because they perform a certain function.  I love having them around, for many reasons - companionship, for one.  They make my life that much brighter.  There doesn't need to be a sexual tint to all relationships in order to be "complete."  Of course, I realize that slaves have needs/desires, and I believe that we search and search to find that person or persons who's needs/desires are compatible with our own to the fulfillment of all parties involed.

So I don't know... I'm not just looking for someone to do my laundry...  I actually prefer to do some chores myself. *gasps*  I know... blasphemy!  It's just nice when your little one does it for you just for the sake of making you happy.  That's where my pleasure lies; it has little to do with the actual task.



petdave -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 7:36:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

quote:
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
You know...you'd be better off advertising yourself as a sex slave...then you get your desires fulfilled and the Dominant gets surprised with a bonus...you actually like taking care of her and doing stuff around the home as well [;)]

Oh Jali Nooooooooooo!    I've never so vehemently disagreed with something you've said.  Heck I don't think I've ever disagreed with anything you said.    I assume you're joking, but if you aren't you should know that just about every man on the planet will take the sex slave job, so littlesarbonn would be even worse off in that pool.


It's a difficult situation..and its true it is going to be very different for males than females and how they can present themselves initially... I'm not male, so its hard for me to step into his shoes and no matter what I say I'm going to be coming from a female perspective...I'm probably clueless with this subject..so anything I say regarding it is hypothetical and may not be valid..I can deal with that *grin*


Yup, i hate to say it, but if ever there were an example of "some female submissives don't realize just how good they've got it", that was it! [:D] That's right up there with "Let them eat cake"

...dave



AAkasha -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 8:18:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

This thread has made me remember one person who came to me and insisted that he was only interested in taking care of my mundane chores around the house and the yard. Even when I asked if he wanted more, he insisted he didn't.

He didn't last long because he grew jealous of a new boy I was training and of the slave I all ready owned. He told me that I didn't pay enough attention to him and just treated like cheap labor.

HUH?

I asked him what he wanted in return for all this mundane work and if he wanted to go through my formal training to see if we might want more. He said "no" repeatedly.

I say if you are asked if you want more that you be honest about it.

I, personally, learned to not trust anyone who claimed they were "only a service" person or "only interested in mundane tasks".


This is so true.  People must be up front about their needs.  Service submissives don't have "no needs" - they need affirmation, praise, direction -- in varying degrees.

But it's also a total landmine if a relationship doesn't have mutual respect and voluntary devotion in a way that ensures the submissive *honestly* is getting all he needs out of the act itself.  Any act of giving, of "service" or of charity - any kind gesture -- if given with the desire (even subconscious!) is for something *in return* -- is a disaster waiting to happen.  Service should be given that rewards the submissive by the act itself. This doesn't come easy.  If a man is doing things for me because he likes it most of the time, but the rest of the time he's sort of wanting something in return, it's going to go downward.   Unless it's an agreed upon "trade."

This is a lesson for everyone when it comes to giving, or being nice to someone.  If you give with the hope (again, it can be subconscious, check yourself) of something in return, you should consider your motives.

I think for service subs sometimes the risk is going into relationships with this anticipated timeline:

Affection --- >  Service -----> Mutual love/devotion

when it should be:


Affection ---- > Mutual love/devotion ----->  Service

Or else, this is what usually happens:

Affection ---> Service ----->  Resentment

If that makes sense.  When you are deeply in love with someone, the joy you get is in the act of giving. If the person is too hurt/distracted/screwed up/absent minded to reciprocate, it doesn't crush you.

Akasha



cloudboy -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 8:22:23 PM)

quote:

1. The False Dichotomy. To begin with, before even getting into the whole concept of service submission, it is probably important to point out one of the real problems that I have yet to see a solution that does not involve a lot of patience, time and hard-headedness. A lot of submissives realize that they need to do something to attract the person to whom they would LOVE to serve, so they are decent enough observers of trends and realize that advertising as a service submissive can sometimes be what is necessary to put their name at the head of a list of a lot of wannabe submissives who are vying for the same attention. The obvious problem here is that they’re not really service submissives, but they hope that if they jump in, do the minimum amount of work to “fool” the dominant, they can still manage to get what they are seeking when it comes to fulfilling their sexual, submissive fantasies. This usually ends badly and ends up making the dominant even more apprehensive about giving the next person a chance so that when a real service submissive does show up, sometimes the hoops she puts him through are placed so high that no one is capable of actually jumping through them, or on cost-benefit analysis alone, not worth even trying.


That's not a "false dichotomy," its a BAIT AND SWITCH.



cloudboy -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 8:37:08 PM)

I'M sorry, this shit just pisses me off when I think about it.

If someone wants their house cleaned, why not just hire a fucking maid service.

The idea that BDSM is a guy cleaning some strange woman's house because "her pleasure" is "his pleasure" makes me want to puke. If there's no kink, if there's no fetishism, if there's no personal power exchange, and if on top of it all there's no relationship ---- IT AIN'T BDSM. Using some desperate bloke for free labor doesn't cut it, and its not domination either. Its just plain and simple "taking advantage."

Clearly a woman could not really respect a guy who did such a thing. (I'm not speaking specifically about littlesarbon, if anyone's wondering.) And clearly a smart woman would suspect a Trojan horse from the get-go.

Too bad Karboncopy is not around to bang the drums a bit here.



twicehappy -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 9:11:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

When I say I'm looking for a service slave I use the word slave on purpose because I think a good slave can and should be used for everything.


Bravo TTJ ! This is almost exactly where my mind wandered as i read this thread.

I do not know (not being male)if advertising as an "all purpose" slave or subbie would help Littlesarbonne (LS you can still visit here, grins) but it should be a category on your profile.
 
Most of us are capable of and actually do many different things.
 
I can bake a cake, wire the electric,  cook a dinner party for 25, mow the yard, rebuild the Harley and give either of my owners head so i guess i am an all purpose model.
 
Lol, maybe he needs to write an all purpose subbie ad for himself.



sublizzie -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 9:12:44 PM)

littlesarbonn, thank you. I am also a service submissive whose particular "kink" is cooking. I enjoy providing service to other people. Whether that entails being the kitchen slave for a dinner party or having a quiet conversation with a Dominant at a party or serving as the recipient of a cropping because no one else was available, it's all service. I have a need for my service to be recognized and appreciated. That's the reward I seek. It's also the reward I've received. It's also good to be around people who truly understand the mentality of a service submissive and take proper precautions. I am lucky to have Dominants around me who do that. I have been ordered to quit moving and to sit quietly, drinking lots of water, and rest as a form of service because I'll keep going until I've gone far beyond my physical limits. I'm still new enough at this to just keep serving and need to be reminded that taking care of myself physically is also giving service.



enigmaslave -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 9:28:32 PM)

Very well articulated opening post.
I can relate to the whole "shoot n' shabang" 100 percent.

Thank you, for bringing this one up. I hope to see more Dommes give their $0.02



littlesarbonn -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/20/2007 1:39:38 AM)

If anything came out of my writing of this, it was listening to the advice of a great deal of people from the boards and to be up front with the woman I am now serving about some of those lesser needs, but needs nonetheless. I'm so not used to talking about those other needs, so it was pretty hard. And right now, I'm not even all that concerned about them, because I'm very happy right now being the service submissive I am. But it sure feels better knowing she now knows about all of my needs, not just the overwhelming one to serve that makes up a great deal of my natural submissiveness.



thetammyjo -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/20/2007 7:23:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

If anything came out of my writing of this, it was listening to the advice of a great deal of people from the boards and to be up front with the woman I am now serving about some of those lesser needs, but needs nonetheless. I'm so not used to talking about those other needs, so it was pretty hard. And right now, I'm not even all that concerned about them, because I'm very happy right now being the service submissive I am. But it sure feels better knowing she now knows about all of my needs, not just the overwhelming one to serve that makes up a great deal of my natural submissiveness.


Good for you.

And remember to keep talking to her, perhaps set up a time "out of scene" where you can evaluate what is happening regularly.

I'm a pretty laid back woman, if the man I mentioned above had come to me and said "I've decided I need something more that a 'Great job' or a hug" then I would have been very open to that and happy to re-negotiate. Instead he just kept silent and let resentments build up. (FYI: the hugs and the praise for work was my idea, he claimed he didn't want anything more than to come, see a list of chores, and do them)

Sorry folks. Being the top or dom does not equal being a mind reader.



LadyHugs -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/20/2007 9:21:12 AM)

Dear littlesarbonn, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
Thank you for a lovely original post.
 
Despite the great measure of Dominants, both men and women, that take 'service slave' into the context of free labor; there are some of us who get more out of it with a service slave.
 
In my personal life, a service slave will be more personal and closer to me than any 'playmate.'
 
There are so many things a service slave may do, from companionship to full service, making life easier.
 
It also needs to be said, that there must be communication between the Dominant and service slave.  Each must be fed.  Each must make the time available to talk and check into the spirit, mind and emotions of the service slave.  The root of this is due to, service slaves 'may/can' be more difficult to read from a Dominant's perspective; as there are no moans and groans when flogging them if they were in a 'dungeon' scene setting.  Yet, each person receiving is in 'a scene' per se; just as much as the one serving.  But, without a more pronounced reaction; both Dominant and service slave 'can/may' be subjected to 'assumptions.'  This is why communication is required.
 
I view service slaves as artists.  The art of service can be tailored to both the Dominant and service slave's needs.  Service slaves put the mechanics of service into a level of spiritual giving of self and put their hearts and minds into it; as well as a respectful reverence. 
In my mind's eyes I see, there are too many cases of no real protocol or etiquette triggers negotiated, as to flow from daily life into a service engagement/scene.
 
Serving as a service slave, a slave of mine would also have time in the dungeon.  Further, the levels of service would be broad, as to make it a personal and physical exchange between us.  Perhaps the service will be sensual into sexual realms, in addition to the ordinary services.
 
As rare as service slaves are, they are gems indeed.  A balance must be met so that service slaves are withdrawn from actual service as to feed their other needs. 
 
Also, those myths where masochists cannot be service slaves.  I offer this view to masochists with submissive tendencies; to when their body is healing and I am recovering, it doesn't have to be a stop completely.  By service, they can aid my process of recovery.  They can let their body heal.  We both still continue our personal interactions. 
 
But, always -- communicate.  People are always changing, so do needs and wants.  Relationships change, grow and the like--communication is key.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs



dawntreader -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/20/2007 9:38:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

If anything came out of my writing of this, it was listening to the advice of a great deal of people from the boards and to be up front with the woman I am now serving about some of those lesser needs, but needs nonetheless. I'm so not used to talking about those other needs, so it was pretty hard. And right now, I'm not even all that concerned about them, because I'm very happy right now being the service submissive I am. But it sure feels better knowing she now knows about all of my needs, not just the overwhelming one to serve that makes up a great deal of my natural submissiveness.


You have given me a greater appreciation for "service submissives" .



MiladyElaine -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/20/2007 10:08:29 AM)

Well I've been looking for a domestic sex slave with bdsm thrown into a D/s relationship!
No reason why it can't be well rounded.....I never in a million years would have thought of getting one slave for one thing only so this has been very enlightening.
A problem I am having is slaves wanting a "guarantee".  There is no guarantee in life, not even in vanilla.



gailcd -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/21/2007 4:22:26 PM)

i love being a service slave for women. i need some personal contact with the woman. i need to feel some relatiosnhip with her. but not necessarily sexual. i think  it's easier to be a sex slave if you are a woman. advertising yourself as a sex slave when you're a man i think implies some kind of performance level. personally i would not advertise as a sex slave but have women take what they could get if they wanted it



DominaSmartass -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/21/2007 5:15:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fairerthanshe

I understand what you are saying and agree with you on many points.  I believe i am an exceptional service slave but without the other dimensions, the physical aspects of BDSM, then it becomes a situation where i constantly fear walking into His house and seeing toys and condom wrappers on the floor or table waiting for me to clean up.  It sucks. 

Its such a sledge hammer to the stomach to know He was with someone else.  Worse yet, it makes me feel as if i dont matter at all.  Before me, He found a way to wash clothes and dishes and get the trash to the curb, didn't He?  So if He doesn't want to use me in the dungeon, then what the hell am i doing here? 

Yes, I love to clean - love it - and look for things to clean, rarely does He give me instruction regarding this or specific tasks.  So how do i communicate with Him all my desires without utterly destroying the relationship?

I have been comtemplating this dilemna all day, so thank you for the original post.  It really helps.  BTW, i started out as a play partner, not as a service slave. 

fairer than she



Aww... <hugs> I hate hearing things like this. A good service sub, IMO, is so rare and valuable and should be treated as such. Unfortunately too many people on both sides of the gender lines become jaded and complacent and take the service they receive for granted. My words of advice are to make a decision to do what's best for you, to get your needs met. Not that you were looking for advice, but that's never stopped me in the past.



SassySue -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/21/2007 5:44:17 PM)

Great thread.



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