The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (Full Version)

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littlesarbonn -> The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 12:10:20 PM)

First off, this isn’t meant to be a complaint article, but one of an informational construct that hopefully will fuel further conversation.   As a lifestyle, service submissive, one who has been one for most of my connection to a D/s element, I often find myself in a unique area where my perspective has been able to observe and comment on many concepts involving service submission.

First off, it has been my experience, and my observation, that there are a LOT of women who indicate that they are looking for a service submissive. Not all of them, of course, but enough that would cause one to think that there must be something to this style of submission that attracts so many different women. The obvious generalization to this is that a service submissive serves to do things for the dominant that the dominant would rather not do for herself (I’m using a specific gender here because it is what I am used to, but to be honest, it can fit whatever genders are appropriate to your own specific situation and dynamic). And for the most part, that’s an easy enough definition to stick behind and be comfortable with. However, like with all things, I’m sure there are a number of other reasons a dominant might seek such a thing, so I won’t try to be all inclusive in my beliefs of why people do what they do.  

But when it comes to dominants looking for service submissives, I find a great deal of them who contact me, or people I have known and observed, are usually looking for someone like me, who espouses the mindset that I am a service submissive because I gain great pleasure from making a woman happy because of the work that I can do in her honor. When such a situation occurs over a long period, it can be a wonderful experience, at least for me and a so-inclined partner. However, there are dilemmas that come up as part of this paradigm, and the purpose of this article is to bring them to light because there is more going on here than I believe most people have successfully focused upon.  

1.      The False Dichotomy. To begin with, before even getting into the whole concept of service submission, it is probably important to point out one of the real problems that I have yet to see a solution that does not involve a lot of patience, time and hard-headedness. A lot of submissives realize that they need to do something to attract the person to whom they would LOVE to serve, so they are decent enough observers of trends and realize that advertising as a service submissive can sometimes be what is necessary to put their name at the head of a list of a lot of wannabe submissives who are vying for the same attention. The obvious problem here is that they’re not really service submissives, but they hope that if they jump in, do the minimum amount of work to “fool” the dominant, they can still manage to get what they are seeking when it comes to fulfilling their sexual, submissive fantasies. This usually ends badly and ends up making the dominant even more apprehensive about giving the next person a chance so that when a real service submissive does show up, sometimes the hoops she puts him through are placed so high that no one is capable of actually jumping through them, or on cost-benefit analysis alone, not worth even trying.  

2.      An Unfortunate Corollary of the False Dichotomy. Because of the amount of these people who are vying for a dominant’s attention, there exists a new problem that I don’t think most women realize, or recognize. I’ll give an example rather than an explanation: As a service submissive, like I mentioned, my main desire in life is bringing happiness and comfort to the woman to whom I serve. That doesn’t mean that I don’t have BDSM desires as well. I just shut most of them off, or place them into a stable corner, so that I can focus on the woman completely and attempt to ignore my own fantasies. But that doesn’t mean they go away. After time, and I’m talking a long period of time, even the most dedicated service submissive starts to have personal needs as well, and quite often it is very difficult to bring them up because of that previous False Dichotomy, which immediately sheds a negative light on the service submissive who starts to show signs of wanting something different than just serving quietly without any wants and desires. The better dominants in my past have been the ones who recognized this from the beginning of our relationships, talked about fantasies and such, and filed them away for possibly revisiting those, on her schedule, involving her desires, at a later time. This is much different than the service submissive who goes into a relationship expecting fantasy fulfillment at the drop of a hat. However, without this dynamic, I have observed a lot of really strong potential relationships end without the dominant ever figuring out why, and then in conversations with me (I have a lot of dominant friends who have talked to me over the years), they tell me that obviously the person wasn’t really a service submissive, even though they had collared them for years before the breakdown occurred.  

3.      The Other Person Syndrome. I’ll be honest. This happens so many times that I’ve almost resigned myself to believing there’s no way to avoid it. Here’s an example: A dominant person will spend months, years, looking for a real service submissive, rather than one of the wannabes or pretenders, and when she finds him, she will eventually collar him, and a period of time passes where bliss exists between the two of them. Then something bizarre happens. She starts to believe that because he was findable, there must be lots like him, so she begins to seek out people who claim to be service submissives. I don’t know why. It just happens, and not just with me alone. She’ll find someone who claims to be just that, and because of the previous success, she will believe she’s found someone sincere and bring that person into her life, too, thinking, “well, two cleaners have to be better than one.” And quite often, one of two things happens. Either the original service submissive gets frustrated at having been cast to the side as replaceable, and eventually leaves, or the new one become so overbearing and needy, because that’s what he was before the rose-colored search approach began, that it affects all relationships, and eventually she’s left with no one, or with just the new guy who wasn’t all that sincere in the first place.  

4.      The Other Person Syndrome (revisited). This is the one scenario I’m most familiar with, and I think it’s one that people should examine much more in detail. This has to do with the dominant’s fantasy of what a service submissive is (revisiting the first dilemma of this essay). When she finds him, she’s happy, and all is great. Then she goes forth and looks for a submissive to fill her “other” needs. She’ll have that original service submissive, a slave to go to parties with, then she’ll find one that provides her with sex, or whatever other need she has, and then one for punishments. In the end, the service submissive, who I mentioned has other needs, even if they aren’t the priority, realizes that she has little need for him in a bdsm dynamic, and quite often in a D/s dynamic, so he decides, “hey, I can clean my own bathroom and get about as much pleasure out of it if she’s got all these other slaves to fulfill her needs and I’m just a number.” So he leaves. This doesn’t fit the fantasy that a lot of dominants have, so they tend not to believe this is an issue. I’ll give you two examples of my past that still have me shaking my head. After a relationship of mine ended, a woman contacted me out of the blue, having one of her former submissives make the contact. She wanted to own me. She knew I was a service submissive, and she was going to take advantage of that. She ended up actually wanting me to come to her place, clean, and then leave. She had “real” submissives for punishing and all that other stuff that involved “play.” Because having to supervise me would be a “burden” and I was so into not making a dominant’s life a burden, she would have one of her male submissive supervise me, and I would actually never have actual contact with her. My heart was definitely a flutter at this potential relationship. Another woman contacted me not much longer after that and wanted me to be her mirror cleaning slave. You may guess where this is going. She ONLY wanted me cleaning her mirrors, and she had other guys to play with so, anything else I did in her presence would only get in the way. Yes, people actually think this way and then wonder why they can never find a legit service submissive. 

Anyway, this wasn’t really supposed to be a gripe, but an informational essay on something to think about if you are seeking a service submissive or you want to keep the one that you have. Your mileage may vary, but the journey still requires tires on the car.




stef -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 12:12:01 PM)

Egads.  That's a mighty large paragraph you have there.

~stef




littlesarbonn -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 12:13:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

Egads.  That's a mighty large paragraph you have there.

~stef


It was the formatting. It took it really weird. I had to go through and fix it, which you posted while I was still trying to fix it.




stef -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 12:15:53 PM)

Much better  :)

~stef




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 12:37:37 PM)

I'll also add that there is tremendous peer pressure amongst subs to be service oriented and to get off on doing laundry because "it makes the master happy."

Most people are a combination of orientations when it comes to submission- obedience, control, service, pleasure, etc. 

As always, I think if people looked at relationships as long term dynamics between eachother for the fulfillment of everyone involved, we'd have a lot more long term relationships out there.  Instead people try to get "place fillers" that don't fit as life moves on.




slavejali -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 1:08:11 PM)

Fast Reply:
You know...you'd be better off advertising yourself as a sex slave...then you get your desires fulfilled and the Dominant gets surprised with a bonus...you actually like taking care of her and doing stuff around the home as well [;)]

I don't want to be mean...but seriously think about it logically. Anyone looking for a "service submissive" is just looking for some free labour cause they cant afford it or are unwilling to pay for it. Of course you're going to be pushed into the background...and unless your kink is purely "service" orientated (which I doubt many ppl are truthfully)..why the heck the need for anythign to do with BDSM at all..go work in a dog shelter.

So anyways, I think its better to put your other needs that are invovled in relationship out there, and leave the service orientation espousal as a nice surprise that comes along with your package.

One of the things I told Master when we were talking was that I was  a sex slave, pure and simple...now I have other qualities etc...but if he wasnt gonna play with me, I wouldnt have been interested in the relationship..cuz i wanted a "relationship" that was complete and whole..and if I just wanted to be a maid I would have looked in the classifieds and so I could get paid for it.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 1:17:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
and unless your kink is purely "service" orientated (which I doubt many ppl are truthfully)..why the heck the need for anythign to do with BDSM at all..go work in a dog shelter.

Well I think having a personal relationship makes a big difference.  Even if a person was a sex slave, that doesn't mean they'd "get off" or fulfilled by fucking anything or anyone in any way.  Likewise, even if a person is a service slave, that doesn't mean they'd get off or fulfilled by just volunteering all day.

I think most people in the world find some pleasure in making other people happy.  We have had a few great threads about that, most recently about how dominants can provide great service just as much as subs.

Like all orientations, there is great fulfillment, and some downsides.




slavejali -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 1:21:08 PM)

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
and unless your kink is purely "service" orientated (which I doubt many ppl are truthfully)..why the heck the need for anythign to do with BDSM at all..go work in a dog shelter.


quote:

Well I think having a personal relationship makes a big difference. 


yes....but...

Seriously, if you have someone to come in and clean your carpets..do you consider yourself having an intimate relationship with them? They have a role in your life, they are there to clean your carpets, the wires dont get crossed

Subjects like this seem very plain and simple to me, but maybe I'm missing soemthing..or maybe I'm not.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 1:24:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
Seriously, if you have someone to come in and clean your carpets..do you consider yourself having an intimate relationship with them? They have a role in your life, they are there to clean your carpets, the wires dont get crossed

Subjects like this seem very plain and simple to me, but maybe I'm missing soemthing..or maybe I'm not.

That doesn't mean they are oriented to it.

There's a difference between doing a job you love to do for yourself, and being good at the job you are doing.

The best is when you get BOTH. 

As in the case of the masochism thread we had recently- perhaps for many people it has nothing to do with the intimate relationship.  But for a lot of people, knowing there's a solid stable long term commitment is what allows them to express their orientation and be fulfilled within it.

I had a hot fantasy with my ex about him having a catered party and me dressing and acting just like one of the waiters for the whole night- knowing we knew who we were to eachother, but completely ignored by everyone and treated like just another random waiter.

I wouldn't find it very interesting to get a job as a waiter though.




slavejali -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 1:40:05 PM)

quote:

I had a hot fantasy with my ex about him having a catered party and me dressing and acting just like one of the waiters for the whole night- knowing we knew who we were to eachother, but completely ignored by everyone and treated like just another random waiter.

I wouldn't find it very interesting to get a job as a waiter though.


Yes, I get that..but again..You haven't put it out there from the beginning that your main goal is to be a waiter in the relationship. Perhaps "service orientated" submissives do though and by doing so, it will lead to obvious problems like the ones littlesarbon mentioned.

I've never been in the situation he mentioned, but projecting my mind into different scenarios, the only way I can see service submissives not being screwed around is to make the service orientation less important in their sales pitch of themselves and focus more on relationship aspects.




slavejali -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 1:46:22 PM)

I guess the trouble with a guy saying he is a sex or play slave is he would get labelled " superficial" or whatever..and that is why some males push the service orientation thingy..I hate what we have done to males in our society.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 1:50:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
I've never been in the situation he mentioned, but projecting my mind into different scenarios, the only way I can see service submissives not being screwed around is to make the service orientation less important in their sales pitch of themselves and focus more on relationship aspects.

Agreed.




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 1:51:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
You know...you'd be better off advertising yourself as a sex slave...then you get your desires fulfilled and the Dominant gets surprised with a bonus...you actually like taking care of her and doing stuff around the home as well [;)]
Oh Jali Nooooooooooo!    I've never so vehemently disagreed with something you've said.  Heck I don't think I've ever disagreed with anything you said.    I assume you're joking, but if you aren't you should know that just about every man on the planet will take the sex slave job, so littlesarbonn would be even worse off in that pool.
quote:

Anyone looking for a "service submissive" is just looking for some free labour cause they cant afford it or are unwilling to pay for it. Of course you're going to be pushed into the background...and unless your kink is purely "service" orientated (which I doubt many ppl are truthfully)..why the heck the need for anythign to do with BDSM at all..go work in a dog shelter.
This isn't so either in my experience.   Some people get a great deal of pleasure in dominating someone that way without intimate contact, and a great many men have indicated to me that they want to serve on a slave capacity without the intimacy/boyfriend thing;  and while that isn't my cup of tea, I can't hate on someone else's kink.   I suppose it does look like free labor to the outsider, but if providing free labor to the babe you think is hot is your thing, who am I to judge?  The reason it isn't for me is that I would expect my boy to put out after all his hard work.

quote:

One of the things I told Master when we were talking was that I was  a sex slave, pure and simple...now I have other qualities etc...but if he wasnt gonna play with me, I wouldnt have been interested in the relationship..cuz i wanted a "relationship"
This is one of the differences between men and women.   If I said on my profile I was seeking sex slaves, I would need a hotel all my own for the revolving door activity I'd be getting.   I personally am not even a little bit interested in a sex slave.   I would possibly date a vanilla gentleman who is kinky to be sure, but if he presented self as sex slave, I'd say "no thanks."

In my opinion and experience, saying you're a sex slave to a man is to make all his dreams come true in one sentence, LMAO...   

quote:

I think its better to put your other needs that are invovled in relationship out there, and leave the service orientation espousal as a nice surprise that comes along with your package.
I do agree that one should put his needs/desire forth when trying to establish a relationship.   I also think that perhaps littlesarbonn is focusing too much on the service factor and not enough on "how do let her know I want her, and how do I make her want to rip off my clothes and push me down on the bed" factor.   I definitely don't think he should approach women with the sex slave line, as it won't work for the most part.     M




slavejali -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 2:02:22 PM)

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
You know...you'd be better off advertising yourself as a sex slave...then you get your desires fulfilled and the Dominant gets surprised with a bonus...you actually like taking care of her and doing stuff around the home as well [;)]

Oh Jali Nooooooooooo!    I've never so vehemently disagreed with something you've said.  Heck I don't think I've ever disagreed with anything you said.    I assume you're joking, but if you aren't you should know that just about every man on the planet will take the sex slave job, so littlesarbonn would be even worse off in that pool.


It's a difficult situation..and its true it is going to be very different for males than females and how they can present themselves initially... I'm not male, so its hard for me to step into his shoes and no matter what I say I'm going to be coming from a female perspective...I'm probably clueless with this subject..so anything I say regarding it is hypothetical and may not be valid..I can deal with that *grin*




fairerthanshe -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 2:47:59 PM)

I understand what you are saying and agree with you on many points.  I believe i am an exceptional service slave but without the other dimensions, the physical aspects of BDSM, then it becomes a situation where i constantly fear walking into His house and seeing toys and condom wrappers on the floor or table waiting for me to clean up.  It sucks. 

Its such a sledge hammer to the stomach to know He was with someone else.  Worse yet, it makes me feel as if i dont matter at all.  Before me, He found a way to wash clothes and dishes and get the trash to the curb, didn't He?  So if He doesn't want to use me in the dungeon, then what the hell am i doing here? 

Yes, I love to clean - love it - and look for things to clean, rarely does He give me instruction regarding this or specific tasks.  So how do i communicate with Him all my desires without utterly destroying the relationship?

I have been comtemplating this dilemna all day, so thank you for the original post.  It really helps.  BTW, i started out as a play partner, not as a service slave. 

fairer than she




littlesarbonn -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 3:29:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fairerthanshe

I understand what you are saying and agree with you on many points.  I believe i am an exceptional service slave but without the other dimensions, the physical aspects of BDSM, then it becomes a situation where i constantly fear walking into His house and seeing toys and condom wrappers on the floor or table waiting for me to clean up.  It sucks. 

Its such a sledge hammer to the stomach to know He was with someone else.  Worse yet, it makes me feel as if i dont matter at all.  Before me, He found a way to wash clothes and dishes and get the trash to the curb, didn't He?  So if He doesn't want to use me in the dungeon, then what the hell am i doing here? 

Yes, I love to clean - love it - and look for things to clean, rarely does He give me instruction regarding this or specific tasks.  So how do i communicate with Him all my desires without utterly destroying the relationship?

I have been comtemplating this dilemna all day, so thank you for the original post.  It really helps.  BTW, i started out as a play partner, not as a service slave. 

fairer than she



I truly understand what you are saying, and I'm not sure those outside of this mindset really do.




littlesarbonn -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 3:31:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

Fast Reply:
You know...you'd be better off advertising yourself as a sex slave...then you get your desires fulfilled and the Dominant gets surprised with a bonus...you actually like taking care of her and doing stuff around the home as well [;)]




I'm not a sex slave. I can't imagine myself ever advertising as one. I am a service submissive, but the point of the section you addressed is that I am also more than that, but my primary need is service submission.




thetammyjo -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 3:38:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

Fast Reply:
You know...you'd be better off advertising yourself as a sex slave...then you get your desires fulfilled and the Dominant gets surprised with a bonus...you actually like taking care of her and doing stuff around the home as well [;)]

I don't want to be mean...but seriously think about it logically. Anyone looking for a "service submissive" is just looking for some free labour cause they cant afford it or are unwilling to pay for it. Of course you're going to be pushed into the background...and unless your kink is purely "service" orientated (which I doubt many ppl are truthfully)..why the heck the need for anythign to do with BDSM at all..go work in a dog shelter.

So anyways, I think its better to put your other needs that are invovled in relationship out there, and leave the service orientation espousal as a nice surprise that comes along with your package.



If I just wanted someone to do housework, I'd be looking for a houseboy/girl. Yard work, similar thing, but I wouldn't call that person a slave.

When I say I'm looking for a service slave I use the word slave on purpose because I think a good slave can and should be used for everything. I don't look for submissives because I personally consider that a time-limited state of being.

slavejali you are complete right, people should be clearer about what they need and want on both sides of the relationship. Hey if that means that the hot chick or dude passes you over for being too "uppity" (or whatever) they weren't a good match for you, were they?




fairerthanshe -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 5:00:21 PM)

Thanks sarbonn,

it helps to know i'm not the only one out there who has experienced this.  any advice you can give to begin the dreaded conversation would be greatly appreciated.

fairer than she




thetammyjo -> RE: The dilemmas of being a service submissive (things to think about) (1/19/2007 5:33:00 PM)

This thread has made me remember one person who came to me and insisted that he was only interested in taking care of my mundane chores around the house and the yard. Even when I asked if he wanted more, he insisted he didn't.

He didn't last long because he grew jealous of a new boy I was training and of the slave I all ready owned. He told me that I didn't pay enough attention to him and just treated like cheap labor.

HUH?

I asked him what he wanted in return for all this mundane work and if he wanted to go through my formal training to see if we might want more. He said "no" repeatedly.

I say if you are asked if you want more that you be honest about it.

I, personally, learned to not trust anyone who claimed they were "only a service" person or "only interested in mundane tasks".




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