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How destructive is the Human Race - 1/8/2007 4:33:14 AM

FangsNfeet

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So many changes and loss of life happen on earth due to the human life style. Is Earth doomed? If so, what are the chances of the universe?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070107/ap_on_sc/mars_life

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RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/8/2007 4:45:38 AM

meatcleaver

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Probably the best thing that can happen to the human race is to find alien life, no matter how simple, it might put it into some perspective that we are nothing special and that the only life form that is going to consider our wellbeing, are ourselves so we'd better look after the planet we are on.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 1/8/2007 4:46:35 AM >

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RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/8/2007 7:14:10 AM

Real0ne

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well my understanding we are screwed due to the radiation belt around our system that wont let us travel beyond the moon roughly. So we better take care of what we got. Only problem we arent in charge of this planet and have been programmed by those who are to consume everything in our path till it is no more... simple when resourses dry up so will we.

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RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/8/2007 7:54:34 AM

seeksfemslave

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quote:

ORIGINAL meatcleaver
Probably the best thing that can happen to the human race is to find alien life, no matter how simple, it might put it into some perspective that we are nothing special and that the only life form that is going to consider our wellbeing, are ourselves so we'd better look after the planet we are on.

I should think thats a sure recipe for another WAR.....

quote:

ORIGINAL RealOne
well my understanding we are screwed due to the radiation belt around our system that wont let us travel beyond the moon roughly

Which wasn't known about until after the Apollo Moon shots, so......did they really go ? he he he he he he. In theory the van Allan belt extends to infinity and is strongest between the Earth and the Moon.
Also the minor matter of one Apollo being in transit during a period of very high intensity Solar Radiation. Didnt even mark the film tho' Thank goodness !

It must have been in one of the astronauts back pocket he he he he he

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 1/8/2007 7:58:58 AM >

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RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/8/2007 8:20:03 AM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

well my understanding we are screwed due to the radiation belt around our system that wont let us travel beyond the moon roughly.

Hello A/all,

This is not entirely correct. It is not so much a radiation belt as a magnetic field generated by the spinning molten (mostly iron) core of our planet. This deflects solar radiation as well as background radiation from our planet for the most part. While there is a possibility that Mars could be terra-formed or host labs on that planet, the lack of this magnetic field on that planet means that anybody who stays there any length of time will have gamma rays, etc., blasting through their bodies all the time.

This is also a problem for any sort of long distance space voyage. Heavy elements like lead, iron, etc., when struck by gamma rays and other energy forms at the speed of light is that they break off neutrons which are then traveling at similar speeds. These particles then blast through the bodies of anybody nearby and might disrupt DNA, etc. The way to shield anybody inside this ship would be to take something like water which will dampen their speed without shedding off neutrons. I was reading about this last year and one of the main issues was how to get that much water (You need a thickness in the shield of a meter or so all around the ship) into outer space.

I found Seeksfemslave's comments about finding another life form in the planet as being a reason for war to be fairly typical of humans approach to things. We dont really understand something, therefore it must be bad and we should try to destroy it.

I like what the Sierra Club's motto says about encountering things. "Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints."

We are all guests here. I was always taught to be a nice guest and leave a place I was staying better than I found it.

But that is just me and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

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RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/8/2007 8:28:42 AM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I found Seeksfemslave's comments about finding another life form in the planet as being a reason for war to be fairly typical of humans approach to things. We dont really understand something, therefore it must be bad and we should try to destroy it.

Sinergy

Or that we understand more than is let out to the public

i thought this was interesting

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=223085384057319798&q=haarp+shooting

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/8/2007 8:31:10 AM >

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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/8/2007 8:38:36 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I like what the Sierra Club's motto says about encountering things. "Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints."

Such is the idealism of the explorers but then sadly, then along come the merchant adventurers with the politicians in their pockets, all paid for and delivered.

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RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/8/2007 9:02:52 AM

Marc2b

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quote:

So many changes and loss of life happen on earth due to the human life style. Is Earth doomed? If so, what are the chances of the universe?

The sun is going to go nova in about four to five billion years. So yes, the Earth is most definitely doomed. But then, I guess, you thinking in terms of a smaller time frame and that the real question is: is life on Earth doomed?

No. Don’t get me wrong. We could screw things up to the point that our own species is rendered extinct (while taking several other species down with us) but we lack the capability to render all life on Earth extinct. Only human arrogance would assume that we are (or could be) in control of the biosphere that covers this chunk of iron called Earth. We can affect it, yes, and if we stuck to the facts (and not political and social ideologies), married to a healthy dose of skepticism and humility, we might be able to affect it favorably – but we cannot destroy it. The Earth has survived mass extinctions long before humans showed up, it can survive us.

I wouldn’t worry to much about the rest of the universe. So far all we’ve managed to do was take a few brief walks on the moon and send some tinker toys to the nearby planets. We are a looooooong way away (if ever) from traveling to other star systems – so the inhabitants of Omicron Persiea eight can relax.

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RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/8/2007 10:17:52 AM

seeksfemslave

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How about Castor or Pollux, are they OK ?

While it is true that the belt helps to deflect Cosmic Radiation from the Earth's surface it also acts as a lens and raises the intensity of the radiation within the belt itself. Hence the danger to astronauts. The problem multiplies enormously for long distance space travel As does the danger to the structure of the spacecraft from the microscopic but high energy particles flying around. Best stay at home I say, save money too.

Take another look at the film of Lunar Module taking off from the Moon's surface
Very suspicious. Say no more nudge nudge wink wink !.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 1/8/2007 10:32:09 AM >

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RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/8/2007 10:31:23 AM

luckydog1

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Sinergy a related Point I read( do not have a source) is that our own Core is siezing up. The electromagnetic field is measrurable weakening, data over the past 100 years shows it, and we have about 1500 years left before it goes off, and the planet gets fried with serious radiation.

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RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/8/2007 10:39:17 AM

seeksfemslave

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I have seen that point raised, it tends to weaken as a periodic field reversal occurs ie what was North becomes South in magnetic terms that is.

About Space War, if aliens have any sense or knowledge of our history then I should think they would get their retaliation in first if we insisted on contact.

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RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/8/2007 12:05:52 PM

Termyn8or

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Let's say you are an alien. You belong to a peaceful race that has conquered most of the ills of society. They have almost no crime, no jails. Energy is cheap and all of life's needs are plentiful. You species is kind but strong. Weapons exist to fend off invaders should they come, you do not use them to hurt each other. You have been practicing eugenics for a long time and got it just about down pat. All the damage caused to your planet in your dark ages has been repaired. You have friendly contact with a few different species and fair trade with them.

So you have a super power recieving antenna and finally isolate and learn to decode NTSC television signals. You learn the language.

Of all things you get the Springer show and the like.

Would you come here ?

This is of course hypothetical, there might be about 50 light years of TV signals, more of radio. That isn't very far, and someone would have to be looking for it. It would all be a bunch of static until deciphered by some seriously advanced technology. They would probably be unimpressed with the 480i format. But the content.

When I see the crap out there I want to leave the planet. I could see a bunch of aliens sitting there watching our signals. Their species would certainly discover laughter, or rediscover it. They would probably have a blast with the cellphone signals, but I still think the Springer show would do well. As a comedy.

Yes, the human race is destructive. We are not only destructive to ourselves and others, but to the very environment on which we depend.

All we did to the environment up until about 50 years ago doesn't mean shit. However we have excelled in that field. With nuclear waste more and more places on Earth will not be arable for millions of years. With the DU weapons in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the testing in PuertoRico some people have lost land. Some of it you can't even live on, let alone farm. And it is going to stay that way for a very long time. Yes we have reached a new level of performance in destroying the environment. We have really achieved something.

I wouldn't come here.

T

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RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/8/2007 12:12:15 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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I agree with Marc- in terms of universal time, humans might completely destroy themselves or their life support system, but the system itself will readjust itself and carry on just fine without much more than a pause.

Eventually, the big rocks, or the sun or the black hole thing might do the deed, but really, the planet itself really isn't what we have to be concerned with. It's the life support system.

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RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/8/2007 12:21:42 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
All we did to the environment up until about 50 years ago doesn't mean shit. However we have excelled in that field. With nuclear waste more and more places on Earth will not be arable for millions of years. With the DU weapons in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the testing in PuertoRico some people have lost land. Some of it you can't even live on, let alone farm. And it is going to stay that way for a very long time. Yes we have reached a new level of performance in destroying the environment. We have really achieved something.
I wouldn't come here.
T

i remember when i seen the matrix for the first time.

two things really stuck in my head.

First the copper top... i thought that was a great analogy
then after he seen the real world and vomited because he was in shock

Great show for those who havent seen it though the i am sure it will be the somewhat mixed but basically happy ending they portray.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 14

RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/8/2007 8:39:50 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

The sun is going to go nova in about four to five billion years. So yes, the Earth is most definitely doomed. But then, I guess, you thinking in terms of a smaller time frame and that the real question is: is life on Earth doomed?

To clarify, our sun lacks the mass to nova.

What will happen with jolly old Sol is that she will burn out in however many billion years she has left, and float through the firmament a lifeless husk.

On the other hand, neutron stars going thousands of kilometers / second zip through the galaxy in the direction their asymmetrical nova blew them out. One of those crashes into the sun and it is all over...

Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy

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RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/8/2007 8:42:53 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Sinergy a related Point I read( do not have a source) is that our own Core is siezing up. The electromagnetic field is measrurable weakening, data over the past 100 years shows it, and we have about 1500 years left before it goes off, and the planet gets fried with serious radiation.

*runs around in a panic shrieking "what the hell are we going to do?"*

The geological record shows that our magnetic poles have weakened and flipped from one side to the other many times in geological time.

It is entirely possible we are heading in to another north/south flip, and not a shutdown of the magnetic field.

We dont really know what happens during the period of transition.

Sinergy

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"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

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RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/8/2007 9:00:42 PM

sleazy

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All the talk of measuring this or that and showing it increasing or falling and prophecies of impending doom always make me giggle inside a little. After all the things we measure today, we can only really take guesses (educated or of the wild ass variety) as to past temperatures, magnetic fields and whatever else.

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RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/9/2007 1:34:03 AM

seeksfemslave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazy
All the talk of measuring this or that and showing it increasing or falling and prophecies of impending doom always make me giggle inside a little. After all the things we measure today, we can only really take guesses (educated or of the wild ass variety) as to past temperatures, magnetic fields and whatever else.

I think knowledge of the periodic reversal of the Earth's magnetic field is based on solid data. Deep cores are extracted from Earth. and material capable of being magnetised can be seen to have the North South pole orientation reversed every aeon or so.

Scientists are quite capable of claiming precision when none exists tho'
An example is the distances to remote galaxies. Ultimately, though the red shift is invoked, the basic measuring stick is the claim that the absolute luminosity of Variable stars, the brightness goes up/down, is a function of the time interval of brightness variation, if you catch my drift. This "fact" is based on a very small sample of data. just adding that I think a female Astronomer was involved in this data interpretation....so it must be true !

I've always wondered how you measure the Red Shift of a galaxy anyway !!
A whole gigantic mish mash of radiation travelling across deep space and Astronomers or somebody claim to isolate the spectral lines of say Hydrogen emitted from a particular galaxy.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 1/9/2007 1:36:34 AM >

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RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/9/2007 2:31:13 AM

slavejali

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I think we are an alien experiementation, and as with any species that is introduced into an area they haven't naturally come from, they usually take over it and destroy it...the earth is doomed

You should see what the cane toads have done to queensland....

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RE: How destructive is the Human Race - 1/9/2007 5:58:31 AM

sleazy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
I think knowledge of the periodic reversal of the Earth's magnetic field is based on solid data. Deep cores are extracted from Earth. and material capable of being magnetised can be seen to have the North South pole orientation reversed every aeon or so.

Apologies, I was being very generalistic with my comment.

Yes there is physical evidence for magnetic shift. Particle polarisation in rocks is a quick and easy one that springs to mind for the more abrupt shifts. I also remember teaching navigation (& hence magnetic deviation) and pointing out regularly the formula at the side of each map to calculate the right value.

When I posted I was actually thinking of such things as temperature, that leave little physical record that can be accurately judged

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Opinion is packaged by weight not volume, contents may settle during transit. Consult you medical practitioner. Do not attempt to stop moving parts by hand. Ensure all safety shields in place. Open this way up. Do not expose to temperatures exceeding 50C

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