Real0ne
Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DomKen
The only way the 16th ammendment isn't constitutional is if it wasn't properly ratified. Otherwise it de facto is constitutional.
agreed!
quote:
ORIGINAL: DomKen
"Benson and Beckman did not discover anything; they rediscovered something that Secretary Knox considered in 1913. Thirty-eight states ratified the sixteenth amendment, and thirty-seven sent formal instruments of ratification to the Secretary of State. (Minnesota notified the Secretary orally, and additional states ratified later; we consider only those Secretary Knox considered.) Only four instruments repeat the language of the sixteenth amendment exactly as Congress approved it. The others contain errors of diction, capitalization, punctuation, and spelling.
i think the process went on till 1915ish before it was considered complete to the best of my recollection.
Here is what Benson claims, the first 3 really caught my attention:
Number
of
states Problem
7 - Not ratified by state legislature, and so reported
3 - Not ratified by state legislature, but reported as ratified
9 - Missing or incomplete evidence of ratification, but reported as ratified
6 - Failure of Governor or other official to sign, although required by State Constitution
25 - Other violation of State Constitution in ratification process
29 - Other procedural irregularity making ratification doubtful
22 - Approval, but with change in wording, accepted as ratification of original version
1 - Approval, but with change in spelling, accepted as ratification of original version
31 - Approval, but with change in capitalization, accepted as ratification of original version
27 - Approval, but with change in punctuation, accepted as ratification of original version
Ok so according to benson after rummaging through the records of all the states and washington these are the areas he claims are in error.
It seems to me that:
1) if there is no paper trail to prove ratification how can it possibly be ratified.
2) How can any state possibly ratify on the federal level if not ratified on the state level.
i would be very interested in an explanation for starters to my questions so far and finally documentation or resources as to requirements of law for ratification in that time period.
i could give a rip about capitalization but the first 3 in his list are inexcuseable and since when can someone call in a vote without a paper trail? Punctuation on the other hand is an entirely different matter and can totally change the meaning and intent.
Likewise is the minor differences in meaning between Enumeration and Remuneration which I find nearly hilarious.
Definitions of Remuneration
# wage: something that remunerates; "wages were paid by check"; "he wasted his pay on drink"; "they saved a quarter of all their earnings"
# the act of paying for goods or services or to recompense for losses; "adequate remuneration for his work"
# Remuneration is pay or salary, typically monetary compensation for services rendered, as in a employment.
# Payment for services
Definitions of Enumeration
# a numbered list
# count: the act of counting; "the counting continued for several hours"
# Enumeration is the name given to the generic field of mathematics which deals with counting objects. The counting is abstracted as far as possible from the objects in question - to come up with counting techniques that are generic and do not rely on the properties of any specific group of objects.
# process by which persons are counted for purposes of a census
----------------------------------------
So illinois is taxing counting then? This is laughable!
Definitions of levi on the Web:
# a charge imposed and collected
# impose and collect; "levy a fine"
# the act of drafting into military service
# recruit: cause to assemble or enlist in the military; "raise an army"; "recruit new soldiers"
# A seizure. The obtaining of money by legal process through seizure and sale of property; the raising of the money for which an execution has been issued.
# To impose or assess a tax on a person or property. The amount of taxes to be imposed in a given district.
Definitions of lay on the Web:
* put: put into a certain place or abstract location; "Put your things here"; "Set the tray down"; "Set the dogs on the scent of the missing children"; "Place emphasis on a certain point"
* put in a horizontal position; "lay the books on the table"; "lay the patient carefully onto the bed"
* prepare or position for action or operation; "lay a fire"; "lay the foundation for a new health care plan"
So the state of Missouri is going to exercize a lay! How incredibly interesting.
These are what knox considered minor discrepancies? i would hate to see what a major discrepancy is. Frankly if this is the kind of bullshit work the people we are hiring to represent us are doing in my mind makes a good case for the american people to review "everything" that has been done so far so we can at least be assured we really have laws in the first place.
Exercize a lay, enforce a tax on counting. rediculous!
Last i am sure you also have answers to his other claims?
The federal government claims that the State of Kentucky was the second state to ratify the amendment, such action taking place on February 8, 1910. But, the records of the State of Kentucky reveal a far different picture. These records show that the Kentucky House proposed a resolution to adopt the amendment and then sent that resolution to the Senate in early February, 1910. On February 8, 1910, the Kentucky Senate voted upon that resolution, but rejected it by a vote of 9 in favor and 22 opposed. The Kentucky Senate never did ratify that amendment, but federal officials, being in possession of documents showing this rejection, fraudulently claimed otherwise.
A second interesting situation involves the State of Oklahoma. Here, this proposed amendment was passed by the Oklahoma House and the language of the resolution perfectly matched the one passed by Congress. However, the Oklahoma Senate obviously disliked what Congress had proposed, so it amended the language of the 16th Amendment in such a fashion as to have a precisely opposite meaning. After all was settled and done in Oklahoma, the Oklahoma Legislature wanted an amendment which meant something entirely different than that which was proposed by Congress.
What happened in California reveals a comedy of errors. That legislative assembly never recorded any vote upon any proposal to adopt the amendment proposed by Congress. However, assuming that a nonexistent vote was taken, whatever California did adopt bore no resemblance to what Congress had proposed. And many states engaged in the unauthorized activity of amending the language of the amendment proposed by congress, a power that these states did not possess.
This whole process sounds more like a drunken circle jerk than anything one could call government.
So i cringe to ask but can you site the rules of ratification for both the feds and the states during that time period? Braces myself for this one. or resources would be even better. Do you have a copy of the memorandum that knox kept?
_____________________________
"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile
Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?
Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!
"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session
|
RE: Illegal Income Taxes, Would You Pay Them? - 
Profile
RE: Illegal Income Taxes, Would You Pay Them? - 
I realize they must be rite. 
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread