Living Together or Not? (Full Version)

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slavemaia -> Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 9:07:45 AM)

Hi E/everyone - i don't presently live with my Master. We've been involved with the D/s dynamic for 11 months now and 4 months ago W/we decided to "step up" to a Master/slave relationship. We're discussing living together eventually but it won't be possible for several more months. At present W/we spend every weekend together and typically one night during the week. Although W/we don't live together W/we perceive O/our relationship as 24/7.
 
When W/we're together, the depth of my submission is deep and my obedience is a very joyful experience for U/us both. But when i'm not with Him i just don't feel all that submissive and i find myself less than obedient when He directs me. i don't know whether this is because my trust is not strong enough yet, or it has more to do with the fact that W/we don't live together. i find myself wondering if i'm submissive enough or He's dominant enough or it's just that it's extremely difficult to maintain the M/s dynamic due to so much time away from one another.
 
So, my question is in light of not living together -  do You just figure that when Y/your not together, Your sub/slave is going to be and act pretty much like an independent being and not under Your authority until You are together again? Or do You feel frustrated because she/he isn't exhibiting a strong degree of submission while away from You? For subs & slaves: Do you find yourself feeling guilty and/or rebellious because you just don't feel all that submissive when you're away from your Dominant? And how have Y/you all been able to solve this? Does it resolve itself once Y/your living together?
Any other thoughts or suggestions are appreciated as well.
 
Thanks much and HAPPY HOLIDAYS to A/all.



thetammyjo -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 9:13:09 AM)

I should hope any slave of mine would be an independent being whenever I wasn't in need of his direct services or giving him direct orders.

That doesn't mean that he isn't aware that how he behaves can reflect back onto me (depending on what folks he interacts with know about us). Thus his obligations to me and his duties to me are in his mind -- this can be a stress on him or it can be a support for him depending on the situation.

I don't believe that being a slave equals being submissive 100% of the time -- this is how I define the dynamics. Being a submissive is really only happening when one is submissive but a slave in my opinion is a more complicated role to fulfill because it requires a lot of self-motivation and focus on the greater service to the owner regardless of where one is without needing direction or direct dominance.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 9:23:10 AM)

Expecting feelings and reactions to be the same in person as they are when not in person is unrealistic.

Expecting actions and behaviors to be the same in person as they are when not in person is completely realistic and reasonable.

I don't think this has to do with living together, I think it has to do with unrealistic expectations and understanding of who you are.  Your submission needs to be based on your internal sense of commitment.  Of course it's awesome to get those sub fuzzies and feel all "inspired" to submit, and I think in healthy relationships there's plenty of that.  But that's not enough to keep you going- you've got to have the inspiration within yourself.

Expect not to 'feel' submissive all the time, but you should be feeling fulfilled overall so that those times you don't 'feel' submissive don't really matter much.



BDSM05478 -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 9:38:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Of course it's awesome to get those sub fuzzies and feel all "inspired" to submit, and I think in healthy relationships there's plenty of that.  But that's not enough to keep you going- you've got to have the inspiration within yourself.

Expect not to 'feel' submissive all the time, but you should be feeling fulfilled overall so that those times you don't 'feel' submissive don't really matter much.


Personal note: LA you hit one of my major personal nails right on the head! It wasn't until almost the 2nd year of this relationship that I had that realization, well actually Daddy hit me in the head with it. Cause I use to have a HUGE problem with doing most if not all the housework, i just couldn't see how coming home to a spotless house and dinner ready made a difference in wiitwd...... it sure as hell didn't give me the warm subbie fuzzies to do it, some get wet over it not me......at all in anyway shape or form, I would rather be poked with a hot screwdriver than do dishes that's how strongly I hate it.  But for Daddy it means the world to Him to come home to a clean house and a warm dinner/breakfast and that is what gave me the fullfillment o do the task and find purpose and enjoymnt in the mundane. Sorry to total Hijack and run but what you said just really hit a cord and inspired me to share.



FlorentineBob -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 9:51:24 AM)

We do live together, and I still expect my slave to be an independant individual. When slave jan became my slave, she did not give up her individuality, or her power. But instead, gave me the authority to use and control that power to serve our higher purpose.



slavemaia -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 10:44:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I should hope any slave of mine would be an independent being whenever I wasn't in need of his direct services or giving him direct orders.

That doesn't mean that he isn't aware that how he behaves can reflect back onto me (depending on what folks he interacts with know about us). Thus his obligations to me and his duties to me are in his mind -- this can be a stress on him or it can be a support for him depending on the situation.

I don't believe that being a slave equals being submissive 100% of the time -- this is how I define the dynamics. Being a submissive is really only happening when one is submissive but a slave in my opinion is a more complicated role to fulfill because it requires a lot of self-motivation and focus on the greater service to the owner regardless of where one is without needing direction or direct dominance.


Thank You - self-motivation and focus on greater service to the owner? - and what constitutes an owner? How does one own another? i'm not talking about legalities. i mean what is the internal dynamic or commitment within the Dominant that reflects that ownership and how is that carried out? What does the slave receive in return for his obedience? Is it just a nice feeling inside himself because he knows he's making you happy? Or have You committed to specific responsibilities in regard to his life and wellbeing too? i'm just trying to understand all of this.
 
If the motivation comes from the self of the slave then why aren't they just running around obeying and serving everyone who's dominant? i don't believe the motivation is all from the self of the slave. If that's the case, why would they even need a dominant? They could just serve anyone who happened to be more in control.
 
 
 



AquaticSub -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 10:46:11 AM)

~Fast Reply~

There is no difference in my submission when my dominant is here or when I am away from him. The only difference in my behavior is that he's not there for me to actively dote on so I'm not always picking up his favorite foods, candy, ceral, beer, etc. at the store while I'm out running errands. I am still very much his and when we talk on the phone I respond to him the same as when he is actually there.

There are times when I don't feel all that "submissive". That's when I sit next to him on the couch watching a movie instead of on the floor or when I go out dancing with the girls or go to a bar without him. He doesn't care - he knows I know who is in charge and he knows I'll come running in a second if told to.

That said, I am independent. My dominant and I live together for now (he decided from the start that we are too young to be living together permantly and he is going move out once he finds a job and has money built up. [:(]) but I still maintain my indepence I'm the one getting. I'm getting my butt out of bed and getting myself to class while he continues to sleep happily and most of the time I'm the one doing all the shopping. Not because he said to, but because I'm hungry and there needs to be more food in the house. Most of the time I'm the one who decides when I need new clothes, though he has stepped in when he thought I was still dressing like I did in high school and needed more "womanly" clothes. By the same token, I will go stand in the corner in front of my friends if ordered - something I never thought I'd do for anyone.

I wouldn't worry about it. Like LA said, it's hard to be submissive all the time and being independent doesn't make you unsubmissive.



AquaticSub -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 10:50:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavemaia

Thank You - self-motivation and focus on greater service to the owner? - and what constitutes an owner? How does one own another? i'm not talking about legalities. i mean what is the internal dynamic or commitment within the Dominant that reflects that ownership and how is that carried out? What does the slave receive in return for his obedience? Is it just a nice feeling inside himself because he knows he's making you happy? Or have You committed to specific responsibilities in regard to his life and wellbeing too? i'm just trying to understand all of this.
 
If the motivation comes from the self of the slave then why aren't they just running around obeying and serving everyone who's dominant? i don't believe the motivation is all from the self of the slave. If that's the case, why would they even need a dominant? They could just serve anyone who happened to be more in control.
 
 
 


In my experience, the sub/slave desires to serve the one they have see as worthy, for whatever reason. I serve the one who loves me and who I know will care for me and protect me. I get frustrated when my dominant and I parted for long periods of time because I want to be actively submitting, but I still have no desire to submit to someone who is not my dominant.

Hope that is useful.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 10:57:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavemaia
If the motivation comes from the self of the slave then why aren't they just running around obeying and serving everyone who's dominant? i don't believe the motivation is all from the self of the slave. If that's the case, why would they even need a dominant? They could just serve anyone who happened to be more in control. 

Some people indeed do that.  If you read my first reply, you'll see I addresssed this point specifically.

There needs to be a balance.  Him being completely passive is no answer to a healthy relationship, and neither is you being completely passive and always expecting him to "fill you up" with orders/feelings/reactions.

You both must be active, fulfilling your own selves AND fulfilling in the relationship you have between you.



losttreasure -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 11:15:44 AM)

I'm sure there are other ways to handle this, but for us, while we are still apart, we don't even try to cultivate a D/s relationship beyond what occurs naturally in our interaction.  We don't see much use for it other than being a source of frustration and neither one of us is interested in online D/s anyway.  As it is, we use this time to simply allow our base relationship to grow and deepen... there'll be plenty of time to fine-tune the dynamic once we're together on a more regular basis.





LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 11:18:53 AM)

Egads Lost- you mean you simply go with what IS and are happy with what you have together?

Surely that will never work!



thetammyjo -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 11:31:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavemaia

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I should hope any slave of mine would be an independent being whenever I wasn't in need of his direct services or giving him direct orders.

That doesn't mean that he isn't aware that how he behaves can reflect back onto me (depending on what folks he interacts with know about us). Thus his obligations to me and his duties to me are in his mind -- this can be a stress on him or it can be a support for him depending on the situation.

I don't believe that being a slave equals being submissive 100% of the time -- this is how I define the dynamics. Being a submissive is really only happening when one is submissive but a slave in my opinion is a more complicated role to fulfill because it requires a lot of self-motivation and focus on the greater service to the owner regardless of where one is without needing direction or direct dominance.


Thank You - self-motivation and focus on greater service to the owner? - and what constitutes an owner? How does one own another? i'm not talking about legalities. i mean what is the internal dynamic or commitment within the Dominant that reflects that ownership and how is that carried out? What does the slave receive in return for his obedience? Is it just a nice feeling inside himself because he knows he's making you happy? Or have You committed to specific responsibilities in regard to his life and wellbeing too? i'm just trying to understand all of this.

If the motivation comes from the self of the slave then why aren't they just running around obeying and serving everyone who's dominant? i don't believe the motivation is all from the self of the slave. If that's the case, why would they even need a dominant? They could just serve anyone who happened to be more in control.





Below is how my household uses the words and understands the dynamics -- it is never an attempt to convince anyone else to agree with us. Unless you are part of my household, I don't care if you agree with us or not and I have no interest in convincing you otherwise. I try to describe what is very complex in some way so that you may understand me and mine, nothing more, nothing less.

For me and mine, ownership is the word we use to descript the dynamic where the focus is on making one partner's life easier through the service of the other. It was a natural development for us from the sub/dom role, one that required a greater focus on making life easier for that owner without demanding more stress and work on her part.

It isn't about feeling sub or dom, it isn't about exercising control or actively exercising power; it's about the recognied authority and the recognized goal of the relationship to benefit one person (owner) by making her life easier. It is a lifetime committment and it is work, rewarding work (otherwise why do it?) but it is work. It is a very different way of looking at yourself and the other person and requires a serious change in how you manage your life.

As for motivation, I don't believe I ever said it was only self-motivation but self-motivation is a high factor I've noticed in most successful Ms relationships. If the owner must constantly strive to reward or motivate the slave, then I believe it creates a situation of greater stress and work for the owner (to me, that is when I would cease to be entitled to be called a slave owner in the consensual sense). This not to say that there is no work and not motivation from the owner but that it pales in comparison to the benefits derived from owning a consensual slave.

Again, I don't care whether or not anyone agrees with any of this but this is how things work and how we define things in my household.



juliaoceania -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 11:34:26 AM)

For me there are no rebellious feelings or feelings of being "less submissive", I just am who I am, he is who he is, we both have good days and bad days. I at times feel a little bratty when we are together more so than when we are apart... in a playful way, but I think my submissive feelings do not change much. We have a D/s dynamic though, so perhaps that is the difference?



Voltare -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 12:11:35 PM)

gretchen moved in about a year after we started dating.  Before that time, it was always quite clear that when she is with me, she feels and behaves submissively.  When she's around other people, she is quite a different.  It's never so clear as when we are visting her parents.

Out of respect for her folks, we put our Ds interaction on the backburner.  We don't lie about who, or how we are, but many of the little things are held back - casual swats on the butt are right out.  For a couple days it's fine, but round about day three, we're both starting to grit our teeth.  By day seven, I feel like I did at the end of boot camp - ready to get the hell out of here (it's a twelve hour trip that costs a month's rent to get down here, and the holidays mean Christmas and New Years - making a 'short' visit logistically difficult.) 

Steam let off, she's a rather brusque person to the rest of the world.  I would be a fool to expect her to be anyone different, if I wasn't holding her leash.  I don't consider 'my' submissive to necessarily be 'everyone's' submissive - that doesn't change our dynamic, anymore than when I am overy accomodating and nice to my (older female) bosses on the phone (as though I were some subby boy talking to a new Domme.)  We simply are who we must to the outside world, so that our private lives might remain private.



mstrjx -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 12:41:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavemaia

Thank You - self-motivation and focus on greater service to the owner? - and what constitutes an owner? How does one own another? i'm not talking about legalities. i mean what is the internal dynamic or commitment within the Dominant that reflects that ownership and how is that carried out? What does the slave receive in return for his obedience?



To me, ownership constitutes, from the dominant perspective, the difference between a D/s relationship, and an M/s one.  (From the submissive side, 'surrender' is the quality that defines the two.)  Deciding to take ownership (and conversely, the surrender that comes with it) entails taking responsibility for the slave.  Some people think that all rights are lost, but whether or not one believes that one thing cannot (or should not) be taken or given is the right to self-preservation.  Outside of that, decisions and choices are made on behalf of the slave.

What this allows the slave to do is to think outside the 'me' box.  If decisions, responsibilities are not theirs to make, then that allows whatever form of servitude to become the focal point for that relationship.  This is where the adage that becoming a slave is a 'free-ing' experience.  The slave no longer has to concern his/herself with themself, as the owner is handling the heavy lifting.

Some of what 'were' the slave's responsibilities prior to ownership might still be retained, but they are now 'obedience issues' rather than direct responsibilities.  If a master/mistress directs the bills to be paid, they are assuming responsibility for it getting it done by directing the slave (and checking up, presumably) to obedience.

I hope this post is of some use.

Jeff



slavemaia -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 12:45:47 PM)

thank Y/you all. i very much appreciate Y/your thoughts. i'm feeling more clear now *smiles*. i've been experiencing alot of stress in my life in general these days, a new relationship, switching careers after an 11 year self-owned business, the suicide of a very dear friend, having to put one of my dogs to sleep - so i think those warm subbie fuzzies, as they've been called, look pretty darn good from here.
 
But the reality is life goes on, responsibilities go on. What i've gleaned from this thread is that being His slave is not so much about how i feel, but about my commitment to serve and obey Him. For some reason that was a very blurry area. i guess i unwittingly thought that i'd feel like a slave all the time, ya know that delicious feeling inside of deep submission. What i'm hearing here is that that feeling comes and goes, but my commitment doesn't. i don't know why that was so confusing to me but it was - lol.
 
i've also realized that it's very important to just let myself be me - all of me, and not try to keep myself in a particular "slave space". i got involved in this lifestyle because my submissive nature was not embraced. Looks like i've tried to make that the only thing that's embraced lately. Boink on the head. Constantly learning and growing and feeling very thankful as well. Funny, there are times when it all seems quite clear and i am content just being and then there are those times that i call the runnaway brain and i have to understand everything. OY. Some things really are beyond mental comprehension, but my heart and soul do understand them deeply.
 
So warm regards and HAPPY HOLIDAYS.



KatyLied -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 12:57:08 PM)

quote:

Egads Lost- you mean you simply go with what IS and are happy with what you have together?
Surely that will never work!


I know!  Imagine people having the patience to allow things to develop as they will.  [8D]



DominatrixDevia -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 1:03:04 PM)

I do not like having live in domestics slaves/subs at all times. While I love what I do as a professional Domme, I require that those who serve Me have a life that they can go out and be a "normal" person. I know not everyone has close friend or family ties but I do and I expect to have My time be My time. An occassional overnight stay would be fine with Me but I don't want or need a slave/sub under My foot at all times or when they are not at work. They must work or be selfsupporting how else can I expect one to serve and bestow upon Me the gifts I deserve without them working to support themself. That aside I much prefer the ability to say to a slave/sub drop everything and come take care of My needs, that seems to be more controlling to Me.

I do hope it all works out for you. It is a very serious commitment and decision to make. Best of Luck!



mymasterssub69 -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 1:08:09 PM)

Daddy and i don't live together for the most obvious of reasons - i have 2 daughters from a previous marriage with the oldest requiring special attention at times due to her medical condition.

however that doesn't stop us from meeting when possible on or offline in person. i still have to ask permission to attend outings/dates (when not work related) alone or the selection of clothes i may wear for the day. i don't feel guilty that we cannot be together 24/7 but He knows that it's my ultimate desire to live that way with Him. you can say being with Him is very addictive since i never want to part from  my Daddy ever even when it's time for bed.



Phoenix2raven -> RE: Living Together or Not? (12/22/2006 3:07:39 PM)

raven says: not to sound blasphemous, but i keep a 24/7 mindset of WWSD ... What Would Sir Do? ;) which also translates to "what would Sir have me do if he were here at this moment?" it helps quite a lot.



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