RE: Sour Grapes (Full Version)

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catize -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/21/2006 5:32:48 PM)

Many people believe that hate is the opposite of love, but I think they are on the same side of the coin because they are strong emotions.  Indifference is the opposite of love, and when we can let go of the emotions, that is when we are truly done with the relationship. 



Petruchio -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/21/2006 5:33:09 PM)

I agree with the premise of your OP, mist.



LadyHugs -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/21/2006 6:02:55 PM)

Dear mistoferin, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
Indeed "Sour Grapes" can manifest in personal relationships, in politics, in religion and or the business world also.  It is not exclusive to BDSM but, it is amplified greatly, due to the size of our (in loose terms) community at large.
 
Only those individuals involved really know what happened and what caused the splits.  Sometimes it is both parties fault, sometimes more the other and or sometimes more 'us' (in general terms).  But, it also is human nature to seek support and reassurances--sometimes it spills out and the 'peanut gallery' as we see often when people posts when things go wrong--are subjected to one side of the story in a edited form.  As time passes we (in general terms) may get importanted withheld details as to paint a more accurate picture as to what happened and; we are subjected to the party's 'perceptions' and 'assumptions.'
 
It really is difficult to be in the position of someone who has a case of "Sour Grapes" against you (in general sense).  The open out loud question would be, when is it the right time to stand up and defend against the person who is poisoning the pond with "sour grapes."
I've had a few individuals attack my reputation however, the ones doing the attacking does so in a chronic manner--so it was very easy to decide from their point of view. 
 
I also find it important, as far as I am concerned, to state my bias, prejudices and or unpleasant history up front, as to permit others to disqualify what I say, as they are tainted by personal displeasure about an individual and or stance.  However, if I am tainted, I will state briefly on how I became such, such as what I witnessed, what I personally heard first hand and leave it there in public.  I may, in confidence confide what I witnessed and heard as to upset me so, as to form my bias/prejudices.
 
In summary, I highly doubt that any of us (in general terms) will escape from being subjected to "Sour Grape" incidents.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs



cloudboy -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/21/2006 6:15:30 PM)

When things go bad, its helpful to have a sense of humor about it. When someone takes a tough situation and disarms it with humor, it shows a healthy self possession, a perspective beyond one's own grievances, and an agility of mind and spirit. Its the opposite of sour grapes, which imprisons one's attitude and outlook on a situation or person.

This is one of the reasons why people living under repressive regimes have a deep sense of humor, it helps them confront absurdity and injustice with a straight eye and lighter soul. Its a healthy coping mechanism, better than denial and better than rancorous embitterment.

"You grow up the day you can have your first real laugh -- at yourself." --Ethel Barrymore




Missokyst -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/21/2006 6:50:35 PM)

I pointed that out because I internalize my emotions, rather than vent them.  But thanks for pointing out what I already know. 
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

quote:

Missokyst:  I don't like it.  I don't even talk badly about my ex husband, even though if I see him I get hives. 


There is very little less attractive than a person (woman or man) who talks down their ex.  When it happens, here, or in real life conversation, I get that little voice in the back of my head saying "move away from the nasty now". 



Missokyst -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/21/2006 6:52:19 PM)

I like this thought.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

Many people believe that hate is the opposite of love, but I think they are on the same side of the coin because they are strong emotions.  Indifference is the opposite of love, and when we can let go of the emotions, that is when we are truly done with the relationship. 



MzMia -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/21/2006 8:12:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

Many people believe that hate is the opposite of love, but I think they are on the same side of the coin because they are strong emotions.  Indifference is the opposite of love, and when we can let go of the emotions, that is when we are truly done with the relationship. 


This may be true, but as someone that has often been victimized by evil, vicious, and nasty
people.  I would REALLY, and I do mean REALLY rather deal with indifference.
Hatred and evil intent can lead to serious crimes, I need not go on.
I will take indifference any day. 



susie -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/21/2006 8:38:16 PM)

There is a fine line between love and hate. Sadly it is all too easy to step over that line without realising it.

And as they also say there is a fine line between genius and insanity and I seem to spend a lot of time teetering on the insanity side I think!!



Noah -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/21/2006 8:56:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I don't like it.  I don't even talk badly about my ex husband, even though if I see him I get hives. 


You'd never say a bad word about him except that the mere sight of him can give a woman a case of the hives. Got it.



quote:

When you have spent some time sharing a life with someone you have to take responsibility for what goes on in that life.  If I had chosen to get involved with a man then I took the time to get to know him first.  I decided he was someone whom I wanted to know better.  If it doesn't work out I share the blame, because I took the step to take a chance with him.  EVEN if he turned out to be a lying, backstabbing, drunken, pinafore wearing, high heel stealing bastard, "I" was the one who chose him. 


Please tell me that was hypothetical. Otherwise this post is just too funny.

quote:

...

I do my best to maintain my friendships with former mates.  I am still in contact with my dom of 20+ yrs ago, we are good friends.  I am trying hard now to deaden the pain of my most recent relationship ending because HE is my best friend.. and my boss, and my teacher, and my most painful loss.
I knew about his issues before I started up with him.  And I chose to ignore them which was my failing.  His issues stayed and eventually brought about our end.  I should have been prepared but was not. 


You know, I have seen posts complaining about this as an Evil Dom Trick: unconsenual emotional sadism. The one where he basically "apologizes" for his "failing" of not recognizing what a hopeless piece of crap she is.

So your relationship problems were all his fault, all arose from his failings and limitations, but you take full "responsibility" for not seeing what a hopeless loser he is?

Sweet.


quote:

When I talk of him I never want to be disrespectful because he is still the same man and I am still the same woman.  The one who walked in with eyes wide open and ignored the obvious. 


God forbid anyone would read any disrespect into that glowing endorsement of Mr. In Your Opinion Physically Incapable of Having a Relationship Due to His Towering Limitations That You Unfortunately Overlooked.

quote:

I find it odd that people knock the other person in their lives when things don't work out.  But I think the hurt must be greater when you can't accept your part in it.
Kyst


Yeah. I find it odd, too.






Emperor1956 -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/21/2006 8:56:25 PM)

CrouchingTigress:  i dont know that one...can you tell the story or post a link E?

It is a famous, short one.  It is where we get our expression "Sour Grapes". 

I never figured why a fox wanted grapes, anyway  but hey...go ask Aesop...he was a slave, y'know *GRIN*

E.




mnottertail -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/21/2006 9:11:17 PM)

Sour Grapes-----

They make the dryest wine..............

Bela Lugosi




juliaoceania -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/22/2006 6:38:14 AM)

quote:

mistoferin


I know that I don't tend to view people who do this in a very postive way. I have to wonder if they just don't realize how bad they are making themselves look and how much they are hurting their own reputations in the process. Sure, there are some who thrive on the gossip and give them sympathy...but I think that many, if not more, are really turned off by such behavior.

How do you view it when people act this way?



One of the largest red flags anyone can put up for me when I am getting to know them is to trash their exes in conversations when we are getting to know each other. What it tells me is that they will trash me if things do not work out. This is not a complete and total deal breaker for me, but it is something that tells me to slow down and look both ways before crossing the street with this person.

I have also had the experience of finding out every bitter truth someone uttered about their ex was indeed gospel because of how their ex went after me and tried to tarnish my reputation with complete and total fabrications and that is why I do not have a hard and fast rule about this. It does tend to reflect bad on the person that is trashing others when they do so, no matter what the story. Every single man I have ever been involved with would be willing to talk well of me after the fact. This happens for a reason, because I tend to become intimate with men that can say a nice word or two about their exes.

If I have anything negative to say about someone I am no longer seeing, I do it to my close friends and my family, get it out of my system and move on. I think the ability to be able to do this is due to my general worldview, if I learned something from the experience it was not a complete waste, and I try to learn things from everyone I have been involved with. I wish more people could learn to view things like this because it would make for a much more positive life in general, but people grieving are not always themselves, so I try to cut people slack when they are hurting from the ending of a relationship and realize time will heal the wound, they are learning, and once they have gotten it they will probably look back on the journey of that ended relationship and have SOMETHING postive to relate about it.



Tamerofwild1s -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/22/2006 7:05:48 AM)

at the ending of a relationship we thought was going to be the "one" we all get hurt and say some mean things about the other .. I do believe that is human nature ... I myself  have done it for a brief period .. but I realize .. that person must have been good on some level or I wouldn't have gotten in a relationship with them .... to this day me and the Ex wife are very close friends .. when ever her and her husband need my help I go over ..... I personally don't like blasting someones credabilty tho but I can see it happens .... lifes too short to dwell on mistakes .... the journey lies in whats ahead . not in the past



meatcleaver -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/22/2006 7:54:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: diamonddreamlove

Classy folks act classy and well trash talks trash.


Bullshit. The 'Evil bitch' I had the misfortune to know passed all the classy tests, had the education, the position (drug clinic director), the style, the language. She was still a malicious trickster, a moral hypocrite and an intellectual coward. If her outward class makes her classy, give me trash anyday of the week. 



Tamerofwild1s -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/22/2006 9:25:18 AM)

lol . now all of a sudden I have this song in my head ... country song I think ... " I like my women trashy and cheap" . or was it a cocktail waitress in a dolly parton wig .... hmmmm
 



Missokyst -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/22/2006 10:36:21 AM)

First let me say you focus way too much on me bud.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I don't like it.  I don't even talk badly about my ex husband, even though if I see him I get hives. 


You'd never say a bad word about him except that the mere sight of him can give a woman a case of the hives. Got it.

quote:

See the internalization thing 


quote:

When you have spent some time sharing a life with someone you have to take responsibility for what goes on in that life.  If I had chosen to get involved with a man then I took the time to get to know him first.  I decided he was someone whom I wanted to know better.  If it doesn't work out I share the blame, because I took the step to take a chance with him.  EVEN if he turned out to be a lying, backstabbing, drunken, pinafore wearing, high heel stealing bastard, "I" was the one who chose him. 


Please tell me that was hypothetical. Otherwise this post is just too funny.

quote:

LOL  of course it was hypothetical!  It was meant tongue in cheek, man!. 


quote:

...

I do my best to maintain my friendships with former mates.  I am still in contact with my dom of 20+ yrs ago, we are good friends.  I am trying hard now to deaden the pain of my most recent relationship ending because HE is my best friend.. and my boss, and my teacher, and my most painful loss.
I knew about his issues before I started up with him.  And I chose to ignore them which was my failing.  His issues stayed and eventually brought about our end.  I should have been prepared but was not. 


You know, I have seen posts complaining about this as an Evil Dom Trick: unconsenual emotional sadism. The one where he basically "apologizes" for his "failing" of not recognizing what a hopeless piece of crap she is.

So your relationship problems were all his fault, all arose from his failings and limitations, but you take full "responsibility" for not seeing what a hopeless loser he is?

Sweet.

quote:

OUR problems were familial ones.  I knew it, he knew it, we choose to continue even though we weren't prepared for the end.  And he is not a loser.  It was the situation that made it impossible.  I still love the man

. 



quote:

When I talk of him I never want to be disrespectful because he is still the same man and I am still the same woman.  The one who walked in with eyes wide open and ignored the obvious. 


God forbid anyone would read any disrespect into that glowing endorsement of Mr. In Your Opinion Physically Incapable of Having a Relationship Due to His Towering Limitations That You Unfortunately Overlooked.

quote:

Unless you have met me and talked to me directly there is no way to see how I speak of him.  OUR life as a couple did not work due to family/life issues they were not failings on his part or mine.  We are still boss and employee, man and woman, friend and confidant.


quote:

I find it odd that people knock the other person in their lives when things don't work out.  But I think the hurt must be greater when you can't accept your part in it.
Kyst


Yeah. I find it odd, too.
quote:

I don't find your judgements odd at all.  Merely presumptuous.   








Padriag -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/22/2006 1:24:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

How do you view it when people act this way?

Pretty much the way I view tabloids in the check out line.  I might glance at the cover for to see what silliness they're up to this week... but I ain't buying it (in every sense of that phrase).



Emperor1956 -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/22/2006 1:54:42 PM)

LOL.  Exactly my reaction, Tamer.  "They say opposites attract, but I don't agree/I want a woman just as trashy as me!"

quote:

  lol . now all of a sudden I have this song in my head ... country song I think ... " I like my women trashy and cheap" . or was it a cocktail waitress in a dolly parton wig .... hmmmm 
 

The song is by singer/songwriter Chris Walls, and Confederate-Railroad had a hit with it. 

Well, I was raised in a sophisticated kind of style.
Yeah, my taste in music and women drove my folks half wild.
Mom and Dad had a plan for me,
It was debutantes and er-symphonies,
But I like my music; I like my women wild.

Yeah, an' I like my women just a little on the trashy side,
When they wear their clothes too tight and their hair is dyed.
Too much lipstick an' er too much rouge,
Gets me excited, leaves me feeling confused.
An' I like my women just a little on the trashy side.

Shoulda seen the looks on the faces of my Dad and Mom,
When I showed up at the door with a date for the senior prom.
They said: "Well, pardon us son, she ain't no kid.
"That's a cocktail waitress in a Dolly Parton wig.
I said: "I know it dad, ain't she cool, that's the kind I dig."

Yeah, an' I like my women just a little on the trashy side,
When they wear their clothes too tight and their hair is dyed.
Too much lipstick an' er too much rouge,
Gets me excited, leaves me feeling confused.
An' I like my women just a little on the trashy side.

Instrumental break.

I like 'em sweet, I like 'em with a heart of gold.
Yeah an' I like 'em brassy, I like 'em brazen and bold.
Well, they say that opposites attract, well, I don't agree
I want a woman just as tacky as me.
Yeah, I like my women just a little on the trashy side.

Yeah, an' I like my women just a little on the trashy side,
When they wear their clothes too tight and their hair is dyed.
Too much lipstick an' er too much rouge,
Gets me excited, leaves me feeling confused.
An' I like my women just a little on the trashy side.

Yeah, I like my women an' I like 'em on the trashy side.




beticat -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/22/2006 1:59:09 PM)

edieted to remove what was essentially a double post
too slow on the draw... Emperor 1956 has faster fingers than I.
[;)]

...we listen to both kinds of music around here ~ Country AND Western....
[sm=biggrin.gif]



Tamerofwild1s -> RE: Sour Grapes (12/22/2006 3:57:34 PM)

yep that was it . and I used to sing it loud as could be when it played too .. man .. sometimes I miss my country music
 



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