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RE: The 'Master/Mistress' is always right - 12/6/2006 11:26:39 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
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To me on the other end it is not really if they are actually right or not but what the situation is who it affects and if it was something significant my input was at least considered. For the most part though an owner’s command is to be done without question and I do not really want to and certainly try not to think about right on wrong for most things that this type of situation does come up.

So to me the always to be obeyed is very good thing for an owner and slave to think as long as the owner is rational and have the natural ability to know when they don’t know something and/or the ability to know when they made a mistake and admit and correct. For some who have a large problem in this area I think the blind obedience could cause some major problems.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 21

RE: The 'Master/Mistress' is always right - 12/6/2006 11:38:22 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez
So to me the always to be obeyed is very good thing for an owner and slave to think as long as the owner is rational and have the natural ability to know when they don’t know something and/or the ability to know when they made a mistake and admit and correct.

Yes! For me, this is the crux of the issue. There is deep responsibility on the Master's end in response to the (sometimes blind) obedience on the slave's end.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 22

RE: The 'Master/Mistress' is always right - 12/6/2006 11:54:33 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

Daddy never claims to always be right (well sometimes he does but he's joking...i think..lol). but he does demand that i obey him ALWAYS, without question or hesitation. basically i do first, think later. is it blind obedience? no, i don't think so...just unconditional obedience. there's a difference. He doesn't have to always be right. He doesn't have to have my complete and total trust in all things. but i certainly have to obey him because as far as my world is concerned, his word is law. right or wrong doesn't even come into play.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 23

RE: The 'Master/Mistress' is always right - 12/6/2006 12:31:09 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

i feel the opposite of daddysprop. I refuse to go do something stupid, or wrong just because some one else said so. Masters are not always right and i dont care who you are - but i dont obey for the sake of obeying. If a cop told me to walk over and put a bullet in some one - i dont care who he is or what his position is - its wrong.

Obeying just to obey - doesnt leave my Master with having to live with the decisions. If my Master wanted me to cut off a toe - he's not the one whose going to live with a missing toe. I am. If i do something wrong - i am the one living with my conscious and like i said before - i come first.

My Dom would like me to where a "riskee" outfit to an upscale social event tomorrow night. 6 inch heels and the dress i wore to valentines day. (its in my pictures under Devilslilsister) Personally, to me wearing a dress like that to an event such as it is, would be poor taste. You dont go to a classy event dressed like a tramp. The Master said "do" and i said "yer wrong" If i do - i am the one who is going to have to live with the consequences of looking like a trollop among the upper class. Not only that, but it will reflect poorly on "me" - not him, but ME. I will be the one to deal with the looks, glances and stares. I will the one who will feel like utter crap because i know how out of place the dress will be.

So while - yes it may please him to show off the dress and myself in such a manner and he might immensly enjoy it. I come first. ME

Luckily, i am the compromising sort. Especially since out right refusing is such hard to do = ) i told my Dom that i need confirmation from another that has been there before to this event if the dress and shoes would be appropriate.

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 24

RE: The 'Master/Mistress' is always right - 12/6/2006 2:26:45 PM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

well RiotGirl as you repeatedly make it clear, you place yourself above all else. so for you to be always obedient would not make sense, and obviously it's something your Dominant accepts since he is with you in the first place. for me, my Master comes first second and third. different strokes, different folks.

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 25

RE: The 'Master/Mistress' is always right - 12/6/2006 4:02:31 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear Jasmyn, Ladies and Gentlemen;

First, I wish to say that people see Masters/Mistresses in different points of references and how the authority structure is set up and maintained. So, the relationship structure in M/s is very important.

Secondly, the Butchmann's Academy website's statement of; "...A Master is not always right, but the slave does not submit to the Master's rightness, they submit to the Master." I can agree with this statement. The reasons being, in my mind's eyes I see that Masters (and Mistresses and Dominants, et.al.) are not perfect but, in the context of a M/s relationship submission is to that Master as a person, not to the perfection that is an ideal and flawless human that can never be.

As for my own personal use of "Master/Mistress is always right," I don't use it. I give my commands because I expect it to be done, not because it is up for debate and or to be challenged. If challenged, it is usually to be more detailed on what I have commanded. All my slave(s) need to know is that they need to do what I asked. There is a time to ask questions and a time to do what is asked of them. What is asked of them is nothing outside the boundaries of the trust and expectations of the relationship.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to Jasmyn)

Post #: 26

RE: The 'Master/Mistress' is always right - 12/6/2006 6:05:41 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

LOL I love something I read on the Butchmann's website years ago.
Paraphrased
A Master is not always right, but the slave does not submit to the Master's rightness, they submit to the Master.
Obedince is not contingent on the Master being right.

lol I love this too.

In the thread "Where do you draw the line?", this was posted and the question was asked where you draw the line on obedience. Like being ordered to kill someone, or spread a disease, rob a bank, etc., It's a good thread, and I didn't want to hi-jack it or take it off track ... hence another thread on a similar topic.

But to the toppy types out there ...how often have you used 'the Master/Mistress is always 'right' ...or to always be obeyed? That whole obeying without question ... that yummy thing non-toppy types like to do when they are want to trust you?

I've probably used the statement in a kidding fashion several times with the submissives I was with. There was one who never seemed to get that I was kidding but I really was...~crossing my heart~.

I agree with the idea that a submissive does not submit to the dominant's quality of being right, they submit to the dominant themselves. If they chose him/her to give up control, why would you always seek to question the control...whether it be the level, the commands, the way it is expressed?

This thread is reminiscent of the "Why...?" thread and the responses here are interesting to me when I compare them to the responses to that thread. While I agree that a submissive has a right to question something the dominant has said or an order that's been given, I think that this questioning should be reserved for clarification or for informational purposes after the command has been followed through on...of course, barring idiotic commands like "cut your toe off" or "go rob a bank" or "flash your boss".

As I said on that thread, I understand that when the relationship is new and she is trying to "get" what your dominance entails that there will be many questions. But after awhile, questioning by the submissive after every order given begins to make you wonder

a.) why they agreed to submit to you in the first place or

b.) what you may be doing wrong in your dominance

(in reply to Jasmyn)

Post #: 27

RE: The 'Master/Mistress' is always right - 12/6/2006 7:48:05 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

My Master has made it clear that he will make mistakes sometimes; that he is not perfect. But he is usually right, and therefore I obey his orders without concern. I can live with the 5% error rate (a guess at the percentage, but it's small), and will deal with those consequences. If there is something that blatantly looks like an error in judgment to me, I will say yes of course I will do such n such, but I am concerned at this possible outcome. That doesn't happen often. When it does, sometimes he will say "Disregard the order." or something to that effect. There was one time in particular his order of me was extreme, but I did not question it as I thought he meant exactly that. Came to find out he did not realize the situation had changed (I thought he knew it did) and was quite remorseful after realizing what he had me do (it was disturbing, and too personal to share here).

Stuff happens. We deal. I know his intentions are always in our best interest and that he is usually right on target. Yes of course I think. He uses my mind more than any other part of me. But when he says jump, I jump.

(in reply to Jasmyn)

Post #: 28

RE: The 'Master/Mistress' is always right - 12/6/2006 8:13:15 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

My Master has made it clear that he will make mistakes sometimes; that he is not perfect. But he is usually right, and therefore I obey his orders without concern. I can live with the 5% error rate (a guess at the percentage, but it's small), and will deal with those consequences. If there is something that blatantly looks like an error in judgment to me, I will say yes of course I will do such n such, but I am concerned at this possible outcome. That doesn't happen often. When it does, sometimes he will say "Disregard the order." or something to that effect. There was one time in particular his order of me was extreme, but I did not question it as I thought he meant exactly that. Came to find out he did not realize the situation had changed (I thought he knew it did) and was quite remorseful after realizing what he had me do (it was disturbing, and too personal to share here).

Stuff happens. We deal. I know his intentions are always in our best interest and that he is usually right on target. Yes of course I think. He uses my mind more than any other part of me. But when he says jump, I jump.

If I ordered something that was unsafe I'd expect Fox to tell me in the way you describe. He may be a slave but he isn't stupid, his mind is one of the things I own so he'd be pissed if he knew information I needed but didn't tell me and went ahead and did something that I and he might regret.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 29

RE: The 'Master/Mistress' is always right - 12/6/2006 11:02:35 PM

Jasmyn

Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline

Thanks everyone for the great responses :) have to head out, will reply later

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 30

RE: The 'Master/Mistress' is always right - 12/6/2006 11:50:59 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

I do not usually use this line of reasoning, unless feeling
impulsive and capricious about something, usually involving
chocolate.

But seriously, I realize that none of us are infallible.
Intelligent submissives with good communication
skills are my preference. If there is a fact or aspect
that I do not know or have overlooked, then they
know to politely inform me and I make the final decision.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

But to the toppy types out there ...how often have you used 'the Master/Mistress is always 'right' ...or to always be obeyed? That whole obeying without question ... that yummy thing non-toppy types like to do when they are want to trust you?

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Jasmyn)

Post #: 31

RE: The 'Master/Mistress' is always right - 12/7/2006 5:51:21 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

He doesn't have to be always right, he just has to be willing to shoulder the blame if he screws up, and be willing to fix the problem.

As it worked out, I asked a lot of questions in the beginning because I didn't really know him well enough to trust him implicitly. These days I ask a lot less and I've discovered that frequently I don't need a full explanation. If I point out a possible problem in something he's doing, all I need to hear is that he has already thought about that and has it handled.

But since he's not infallible, I will point out things that I think he may have overlooked.

The other thing is that most decisions are not life threatening. In the rare occasion where something will have a huge impact on me, and not on him, then that decision is mine although he will give me his thoughts on it.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 32

RE: The 'Master/Mistress' is always right - 12/7/2006 5:59:07 AM

MigViriato

Posts: 54
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline

Well as Fire said the choice is always there and living with them also
So the notion of Master is always right viewed in the dynamic of a D\s relantionship is in my opinion a must, many ppl have said that submissives need to know where to draw the line, but if the principle that the dominant person is put at stake, then the sub will change the whole dynamic because it will be drawing all the lines, she will say "no i won't do this because i think you are wrong" that leaves the dominant person with two choices either go away, because it is a very big undermining of authority and trust or accept it and becomes in fact himself a sub, you can ask politely if it the right thing to do if you don't agree if the answer is negative you have the above choices.
I am talking here about 24/7 relantionships or serious relantionships not scenes because that is interely different thing.
So bottom line know the person that you submit to and be prepared to pay the consequences to put at stake one of basic principles of a D\s relantionship.

_____________________________

"What is good? All that heightens the feeling of power in man, the will to power, power itself. What is bad? All that is born of weakness. What is happiness? The feeling that power is growing, that resistance is overcome."
Friedrich Nietzsche

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 33

RE: The 'Master/Mistress' is always right - 12/7/2006 3:34:05 PM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

I'm always right????

WoooHOOO!!!!! somebody tell my freaking mother, my ex...and my 13-year-old female unmentionable to whom I am the definition of "WRONG"!

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

(in reply to Jasmyn)

Post #: 34

RE: The 'Master/Mistress' is always right - 12/7/2006 4:39:05 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MigViriato

Well as Fire said the choice is always there and living with them also
So the notion of Master is always right viewed in the dynamic of a D\s relantionship is in my opinion a must, many ppl have said that submissives need to know where to draw the line, but if the principle that the dominant person is put at stake, then the sub will change the whole dynamic because it will be drawing all the lines, she will say "no i won't do this because i think you are wrong" that leaves the dominant person with two choices either go away, because it is a very big undermining of authority and trust or accept it and becomes in fact himself a sub, you can ask politely if it the right thing to do if you don't agree if the answer is negative you have the above choices.
I am talking here about 24/7 relantionships or serious relantionships not scenes because that is interely different thing.
So bottom line know the person that you submit to and be prepared to pay the consequences to put at stake one of basic principles of a D\s relantionship.

I think there is a huge difference between saying "no" or refusing to obey AND giving your owner/dominant information.

As I tried to say, I would be very pissed if I was incorrect about something and made a poor decision then found out that Fox knew I had incorrect information or that I made an incorrect assumption to base my decision on and did not tell me. My decisions are always made on what I believe to be the best information but I'm not a deity, I can't possibly be 100% sure that the information is the best.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to MigViriato)

Post #: 35

RE: The 'Master/Mistress' is always right - 12/7/2006 5:35:56 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I'm always right????

WoooHOOO!!!!! somebody tell my freaking mother, my ex...and my 13-year-old female unmentionable to whom I am the definition of "WRONG"!

Pssssssssssssst....Arpig....it doesn't get any better when the female unmentionable(s) get older. My sympathies...

Reminds of that old joke...if a man speaks/does anything in the forest and no woman's around...is he still wrong?

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 36

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