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RE: Is deception the norm? - 11/29/2006 9:00:05 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub
Oh yes! also as LA says, if you are a newbit wait 6 months...I am thinking that gives a new submissive time to get over the "sub frenzy"...lol...I kinda miss ol "sub frenzy"!.....Tempting

Yes I can think of three right off the bat who are blatantly ignoring the 6 month rule after being specifically informed of it.

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RE: Is deception the norm? - 11/29/2006 9:48:15 PM   
LadyTY2Uall


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If I may be so bold, Assume he/she is full of shit and do your best to prove it, if he/she is legit and truly wants to be with you then they will be patient and prove themselves. 
Ask for references. ;)

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Domme does not mean slut.

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RE: Is deception the norm? - 11/29/2006 10:16:24 PM   
SamKeithsslave


Posts: 322
Joined: 11/7/2006
From: Melbourne, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rainasmiles

Hello.  i have been a member here on collarme for quite some time but have never felt a need to speak before.  Now, after many years of searching for my life Partner within the bdsm community i feel a need to vent.  Is there a way for me to "weed out" the insincere and deceptive before commiting myself sexually and emotionally?  i have no desire to waste precious time which could be better spent elsewhere, nor am i interested in a casual sexual relationship or "fling".  i find engaging in casual sex and/or play very damaging emotionally, especially when i have been grossly deceived.   if A/anyone out there can lend a word or two of good advice it would be greatly appreciated.  respectfully, raina


Unfortunately no.   Have to kiss a lot of frog asses before we find the prince. I usually go with my gut and if I think they are screwing me about, then they usually are. I am with you on the deception thing, it sucks - and unfortunately being online makes deceptions so much easier to get away with. As you are not new to the site (or I presume the lifestyle either) I might suggest joining in more? This might allow people to get to know you better on a different scale than one on one?
Good luck with it and keep persisting, law of averages says you'll eventually find someone right for you.

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Happiness does not find us, we must go out and find it for ourselves.

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RE: Is deception the norm? - 11/30/2006 8:10:09 AM   
toservez


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From: All over now in Minnesota
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My two cent opinion and experience. Like many have said be patient and go slowly and do not go from zero to sixty-five the moment you think you think this might be the person.

For acutal advice, it was my experience to make them write Emails of substance for awhile. I found that this really helped me sort the sincere and mentally stable from the players and psychos. Most people lie much better on the phone and can control the conversation. I found that making a person write 5-10 messages of substance that many of the players started to contradict themselves or show an entire new tone in their messages after the initial go to subjects or when they were asked about in a different way.

For all those out there that have been burned by endless Emails, first shame on you for putting up with that. Second, I am not promoting dragging out the process, if you cannot make steady progress to real life or are very nervous to then you need to be upfront about it so it is buyer beware. I just believe a siginificant amount of messages was a good filter in my experiences.


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RE: Is deception the norm? - 11/30/2006 8:32:58 AM   
cjklyn


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Sadly across the internet as a whole it seems "normal" for people to hide behind fake identities and personas. I'm not sure why, although I guess the simple truth is it's because you can. that doesnt make it right though. On sites like this the problem is more apparent than elsewhere. Yes, I would say from my experience deception is more often than not. Sometimes it's not done with any malicious intent, people hiding behind false names/id's to protect themselves, their jobs, their families, or just because they are shy. But more often than not, theres a sad element to it. Iv'e come across blokes pretending to be women, and/or couples. People who post pics of themselves that patently aren't. One guy who turned up to meet a friend and turned out to be 30 years older and 10 stone heavier than the pics he'd shared. There are guys who just want to get hold of naughty pics of the ladies/couples they chat to, and those who are just dreamers/fantasists who get turned on by chat but won't ever do anything real. they are all out there. BUT amongst them there are some real genuine people who are honest, and real. How to find them? My advice. Patience. If you're a sub, seeking a dom (or domme...remember some guys pretend to be women online). Take yoru time. If you feel he starts to push you before you're ready stop. If he keeps asking for pics, if he keeps pressuring you for details about yourself, when you're not ready to give, then stop. A good honest person, dom/sub or vanilla will respect that and allow time for any friendship/relationship to develop, for trust to grow and respect to. Above all, trust your instinct. Take your time and he, or she, whoever you seek is out there.

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RE: Is deception the norm? - 11/30/2006 9:57:13 AM   
DomSailor


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re: rainasmiles original post

There is no reliable way to judge a book by it's cover.  Sometimes the slick, sexy book cover at the book store designed to have the buyer invest time in opening the book covers what is actually a good book.  However more often a slick cover is needed on books which are nothing more than pulp.  Hearing about books from others that have read the book is perhaps a way to disregard a book's cover (or a book with a missing cover), yet reviews of books often have less than pure agendas, so one must reserve judgement, particularly on a single review.

In my experience, the most reliable way to judge a book is by opening it, and reading.  That takes time and effort of course and ther is the rush and euphoria of the bookstore with shelves of sexy attractive book covers, yet one would be a fool to only look at books with covers that attract your attention.

While there is a law of averages, it is best applied when sampling is from the entire population, not a preselected subpopulation because the preselection itself is not random.  In the book metaphor above for example, if one were to select every 4th book on the shelf, open and read a section, then the law of averages has hope.  To select based on the cover is simply repeating a process that is flawed to begin with.  Though not entirely accurate, the old saw 'repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity' comes to mind.

The suggestion that one delay reading the actual book, while closely examining it's cover doesn't seem to do much other than study the advertising policies and practices of publishers trying to sell you the book.  And it doesn't address books with lost or unappealling covers.  Certainly one start reading a book, and if the book is not suitable, stop reading it.  I have done so on occassion, once after reading 7 pages of a classic book, which i then found was missing pages 8-50.  Of course a must be made based on one's own feelings at the time.  Another reader may have already read the classic and might be fine with skipping what for me was critical information and pages.  And even for me, at a different time, depending on what other books I was considering may decide differently.  In the end, it's a personal choice on how we wish to spend our time.  Personally, when I read a book where I can not verify claims, or the claims are false I lose interest in the book.  And books that are watered down and avoid saying much of anything are less than appealing to me.  So I am in a rush.  A rush to open the book and read the pages of the actual book.  Yes, the forward and introduction are nice, but I often skip that and start reading the book.

Being open to accept what the author of any book has to say, being open to new genre  and being aware that authors rarely accurately portray themselves in their work go a long way for enjoying the book for what it is.  Its often the case that literature taught in school is done with the students kicking and screaming all the way through the process and the student's feeling that they dislike the genre/author/plot etc.  Yet, sometimes years later, they often discover the value in the book, and more importantly the relevance to their lives.  So even books that have been put down previously, or passed over as unread may become a cherished experience at a later time.

It's often worth reading a book even with a review or unfavorable impression. I've been delighted countless times after reading a book with a slow or unappealing start.  Indeed, some of those suprising books I've retained and will keep close to me, reread and savoried over the years and are among my most prized possessions.

People are not profiles, checklists, personal statements or emails.  Prior to actual time spent face to face, spending any amount of effort on the book cover is prone to deception, or false impressions.  Spending more time, building more impressions about a book based on it's cover only will add to the discord between a book and it's cover when you actually go to read it.  And lastly, people are very much like unfinished books, you can't sneak and read the last chapter (aka one can't preplan how a relationship goes very well).  Attempting to do so is a fool's game.

I hope this may help you when you consider the issues of pre-meeting checks, sub-frenzy, time schedules, formatted email exchanges (of substance or not), and deception (both actual deception and lack self-actualization or misaligned self image).

P.S.  having to write in the little box is a major pain.. so apologies for any typos or unclear communication ahead of time.

(in reply to cjklyn)
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RE: Is deception the norm? - 11/30/2006 10:04:16 AM   
cyberdude611


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A finding a good bdsm relationship isn't much different than finding a good regular vanilla relationship. You need to sift through all the bad seeds. Some people spend a lifetime searching for the right partner. There is no shortcut. You just have too keep looking.

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RE: Is deception the norm? - 11/30/2006 10:55:36 AM   
whisperedsighs


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Hello Rainasmiles,

Take what I say next with the knowledge, that I have been there done that and still find myself doing it.  Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different responses.  That being said, if you are not willing to take the chance, you will never find the life partner.  What I find I keep doing wrong is allowing my own eagerness to be swayed by the initial (what I call persuit) eagerness of potential partners, and often find I get the same results each time.  They peter off in communications, they don't flirt as much, aren't as eager as they used to be to continue to talk or chat, and generally do the sudden "I'm too busy" thing.  I am built the way I am built.  Now in the light of the do what I suggest and not what I do vein, I suggest dating, good old fashion dating.  You know the process where you get to know someone over a period of time.  Tell them up front, that you won't be playing, having sex or etcetra until you get to know each other. 

*jumps off soap box*

I wish you the best in your search, and am sure with patience and courage you will find the right one. 

~whisper

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oh my god that was so wrong! .... again please!

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RE: Is deception the norm? - 11/30/2006 12:12:06 PM   
sophia37


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I dont thnk I have enough info here to make a solid suggestion. I ws suprised you said its taken you "years". Years? How many years?
And Ive found that writing to people weeds out a lot of unacceptables. You can really get to know someone thru words. Sometimes we are blinded by looks. And we'll overlook the obvious. So by reading peoples thoughts, we come closer to understanding them from the inside out. Trust your instincts.

Are you the type that wont listen to what your gut tells you? Maybe you simply hang on to long to a lost cause. 

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RE: Is deception the norm? - 11/30/2006 12:57:30 PM   
AGORANTE


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Joined: 11/22/2006
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I read complaints about men deceiving women all the time. I'm not sure what that means. I suspect that it means something different every time but who knows?
 
Possibilities:
  • The Porsche he's driving is rented
  • The Porsche he's driving is stolen
  • Its a Miata with a Porsche name plate
  • He's twenty years older than his picture
  • He has a portrait in his attic that ages, not him
  • He found it easier to Photoshop than to diet
  • His wife actually does understand him - that's his problem
  • He wants another beta not an alpha
  • He only whips you to keep up appearances
  • He had his fingers crossed when he said he loved you
  • He had his eyes crossed when he said you were beautiful
  • When he fucks you he thinks of Mary
  • When he gives you anal he thinks of Harry 

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RE: Is deception the norm? - 11/30/2006 1:15:58 PM   
onestandingstill


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Hi rainasmile,
Unfortunately there's 1000 preditors, fakers, and wanna be's for every one real person.
They also know all the right things to do and say to get you intheir clutches.
Usually after 6 motnhs or so the real them inside shines out, but even then there's no guarantees any way.
I knew both my husbands for more than ten years before I married them. Both were completely other people from our honeymoon on than they'd been over ten years prior.
You can never really know any one but yourself these days.
Integrity seems very low on the totem pole of life while all scream from the rooftops how important it is.
All I can say is trust your gut, have faith in that which you can not see and pray.

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RE: Is deception the norm? - 11/30/2006 3:51:51 PM   
Dnomyar


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The reply about premarital sex cracks me up. I would laugh but I know thats what some women in here are looking for. It is a fact of life if you wear your heart on your sleave in here it will get broken.  To the op move on and hope for better results the next time. 

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RE: Is deception the norm? - 11/30/2006 9:13:50 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sophia37

I dont thnk I have enough info here to make a solid suggestion. I ws suprised you said its taken you "years". Years? How many years?
And Ive found that writing to people weeds out a lot of unacceptables. You can really get to know someone thru words. Sometimes we are blinded by looks. And we'll overlook the obvious. So by reading peoples thoughts, we come closer to understanding them from the inside out. Trust your instincts.

Are you the type that wont listen to what your gut tells you? Maybe you simply hang on to long to a lost cause. 
Are you addressing this to me or the OP?....Tempting

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RE: Is deception the norm? - 11/30/2006 11:02:49 PM   
Mikal


Posts: 3673
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rainasmiles

Is there a way for me to "weed out" the insincere and deceptive before commiting myself sexually and emotionally?  i have no desire to waste precious time which could be better spent elsewhere, nor am i interested in a casual sexual relationship or "fling".  i find engaging in casual sex and/or play very damaging emotionally, especially when i have been grossly deceived.

Hi raina,
 
I doubt that there is any way to 'weed out' fakers and whatnot. Just go with your gut. As for not seeking casual sex/relationships/play, unless you are jumping into the sack rather quickly, I don't see a problem. No relationship is guaranteed... to see if you and your (potential) partner are compatible, time is required to get to know each other. If you're not willing to invest any time, then you won't get any long-term, meaningful relationship. If you don't like casual sex/play, then don't engage in it. If the other person wants it, then that is a good indication that they are not whom you are looking for.
 
Just my thoughts

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