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Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 3:44:18 PM

KenDckey

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061119/ap_on_go_co/military_draft

Rangle is at it again. Wants to restart the draft. Whatcha think?

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 3:48:52 PM

Lenis

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It wont happen as it would be political suicide.

I personally do not see anything wrong with it, as Military training in some areas. But the military is definately not for everyone.

-Brian

(in reply to KenDckey)

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 3:50:52 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

From the Yahoo! article:

"There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm's way," Rangel said.

I suspect he's right about that.

(in reply to KenDckey)

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 4:49:11 PM

mnottertail

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I think that congress should obey custom and not allow troops to be re-sent without volunteering as has been our legacy since ww2
I think it is unfortunate that Rangel offered the idea, but not at all stupid, republicans still own congress and will have to weigh in. If everyone becomes aware of their surroundings (and whats the chance of that? hmmmmm 1 divided by 0 is?) then the administration is in a pickle, it is a good off the cuff for the new secretary of defense to deal with, because that is who the question will ultimately be put to.....
The question being; do we stay the course...

Rangel comes up with a floater ever once in a while.

Ron

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 7:50:16 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lenis

It wont happen as it would be political suicide.

I personally do not see anything wrong with it, as Military training in some areas. But the military is definately not for everyone.

-Brian

A draft is a wonderful thing for a military which puts targets on people's heads and sends them to hostile lands to be shot at.

A draft is largely useless for the highly mechanized armed forces the United States had prior to Monkeyboy being allowed to play with his multi-billion dollar penis extension.

I dont see it being re-implemented unless the people who insist we stay in Iraq a few more years have their way.

Sinergy

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 7:56:04 PM

mnottertail

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I am going to have to disagree Sin.

The star wars concept, which this was based on, look at the players, look at the deal....
has proven valuable in terms of first strike or even fending strike.

However, in your and my lifetime for the forseeable future, there will need to be door to door..............

The draft will be re-instated, for several reasons, not the least of which is that many people near retirement are in Iraq never thinking they had to go to war.

What impetus is there to join the all vol unless you are going to be at risk? The when and where is important as well as the when and where of life.

Ron

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 8:05:43 PM

fergus

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Surprisingly, I am not opposed to a draft, but I AM opposed to sending conscripted troops over seas into combat - unless they then volunteer for that duty.

But I do agree it would be political suicide.

fergus

(in reply to mnottertail)

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 8:07:02 PM

UtopianRanger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061119/ap_on_go_co/military_draft

Rangle is at it again. Wants to restart the draft. Whatcha think?

It's nothing more than a ploy to ''up the ante'' and foster more anti-war sentiment and class warfare. If Congress and the President tried to reinstate the draft, Wrangel knows it would polarize America in a way we haven't seen since long before the Vietnam conflict. It would force the neocons to end the war immediately.

Yes, I'm with Wrangel.....I say reinstate the draft, wake up the ''proles'', and hope they bum rush Pennsylvania avenue.

- R

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-General George S. Patton

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 8:10:36 PM

mnottertail

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to institute a draft? george got a couple years to go and a war to win and a controlled congress and a man with the plan for his armed forces. if no draft, no can fuck with Iraq, astute move in that sense to raise the question.............

Ron
never mind that I think all youth should serve in the military, just not in the american military for the purposes it is being used for now.

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 8:13:45 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I am going to have to disagree Sin.

The star wars concept, which this was based on, look at the players, look at the deal....has proven valuable in terms of first strike or even fending strike.

I am not sure I understand.

The USSR was overstretched militarily and went bankrupt first, largely because they sent their armies to fight stupid wars in places they were not really equipped to win in.

Star Wars did not prevent two tall buildings being taken out by slow moving ICBMs in New York back in 2001.

China does not really have significant ability to engage in first strike nuclear war with any hope of success.

At the current time the United States is overstretched militarily and borrowing heavily from China to pay for our imperialistic hubris.

Those who dont learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

Sinergy

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 8:15:07 PM

topcat

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The real key to Rangle's bills is that there would be just about zero exemptions- that means the fatcat kids of the bosses get tossed in the grinder, too...

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 8:18:57 PM

juliaoceania

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That is true topcat, Rangel was trying to get this through a few years ago, it is hardly new news. It is only being regurgitated now because the democrats have the opportunity to actually pass it now. They won't because it would be political suicide to vote for any draft.

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 8:25:09 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

The real key to Rangle's bills is that there would be just about zero exemptions- that means the fatcat kids of the bosses get tossed in the grinder, too...

If anybody can fix the quagmire in Iraq, I would bet good money on the Bush daughters being a good choice to set an example.

Sinergy

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"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 8:38:54 PM

mnottertail

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And we are the ones that are condemned to repeat it.
Look, lets forget right or reason or anything approaching it
no moral issue.............we hold that in abeyance.

Do you remember the 80s and 90s with star wars (reagan) and star wars(lucas) and Richard mandigo or whatever the fuck his name is the Kung Fu boardroom guy or whatever the fuck he was?
Still writes books to this day.

Our technology, especially now that the soviet union has collapsed, has brought us superiority in fundamental warpower. There is none on the face of the earth that can put killing metal in living space to our degree. Nobody is capable of our first strike ability.....................nobody. Yet empires have been built. lost and won far beyond a first strike or the shock and awe principal as you are aware from your endeavour to be kicked in the head as you call it. There is required a ground action to hold that. In one-on-one confrontation, skill will hold that. In the building of empires, it requires a determined will of people, many to hold it. Without ground forces (earth) ..........
Ki Ku Fu Chu and ............cant say them but this I belive:

Ground, Water, Fire Wind and Void.

we only have fire.
Miyamoto

G

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 8:59:25 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And we are the ones that are condemned to repeat it.
Look, lets forget right or reason or anything approaching it
no moral issue.............we hold that in abeyance.

Do you remember the 80s and 90s with star wars (reagan) and star wars(lucas) and Richard mandigo or whatever the fuck his name is the Kung Fu boardroom guy or whatever the fuck he was?
Still writes books to this day.

Our technology, especially now that the soviet union has collapsed, has brought us superiority in fundamental warpower. There is none on the face of the earth that can put killing metal in living space to our degree. Nobody is capable of our first strike ability.....................nobody. Yet empires have been built. lost and won far beyond a first strike or the shock and awe principal as you are aware from your endeavour to be kicked in the head as you call it. There is required a ground action to hold that. In one-on-one confrontation, skill will hold that. In the building of empires, it requires a determined will of people, many to hold it. Without ground forces (earth) ..........
Ki Ku Fu Chu and ............cant say them but this I belive:

Ground, Water, Fire Wind and Void.

we only have fire.
Miyamoto

G

Lovely connection to eastern spirituality, mnottertail.

The connection I believe you are missing in your post would be the binding element. What various Asian cultures refer to as Chi or Ki or Qi.

The United States lacked the Qi necessary to win in Vietnam, since the only true victory would have involved wholesale slaughter of everybody in Vietnam.

The United States lacks the Qi necessary to win in Iraq, because victory will only be accomplished by putting in place the exact same iron bootheel dictatorship which Saddam Hussein controlled his country with. I dont care how many troops you put in Iraq. Until you are willing to start actively killing anybody who looks at you cross-eyed, and putting their heads on pikes on the city street corners, we are simply sitting over there waiting for them to kill us.

And the military we have to fight that war was designed to win against the USSR's mechanized technical force in Europe and Asia, not to play Hall Monitor in Iraq, which is what Monkeyboy has made them do.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to mnottertail)

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 9:08:58 PM

saskslave

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This is an attempt to play political games and to continue to divide the US. This is the second time Rangel has sponsored a bill like this, and when the first bill came up for a vote (in October 2004--four weeks before the election), Rangel voted against it. It's just more political posturing from the hard-left of the Democrat Party.

And take a gander at this quote from Rangel:

quote:

"There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm's way," Rangel said.

He just insulted the vast majority of Congress--both Republicans and Democrats.

And "flimsy" evidence? Yeah, real flimsy.

1) One year away from having an atomic bomb
2)  At least 500 WMD found in Iraq after the liberation--WMD that Saddam claimed he didn't have
3)  Gave Abdul Rahman Yasmin (one of the Al Qaeda bombers who hit the World Trade Center in 1993--and is still at large) housing and put him on a govt salary.
4) Openly sponsored international terrorism, even announcing to the world that he was now going to pay the families of Palestinian Arab homicide bombers $25,000--up from the previous $10,000.
5) Shot at numerous US and UK aircraft--a violation of the ceasefire he signed.
6) Attempted to assassinate a US president--definitely an act of war.  But the Adulterer-in-Chief only half-heaertedly lobbed a few bombs at Iraq after this clear act of war.
7) Attacked 4 countries in 11 years; Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Israel.
8) Saddam - and the UN - skimmed billions from the Oil for Food Program, a mega scandal that the Old Media (with the exception of Fox News and the opinion/editorial pages of the Wall Street Journal) ignored.

But we are supposed to ignore this because Saddam owed France, Germany, Russia, and China, billions from the chemicals, nuclear reactors, and military equipment he bought from them. Thus the world was supposed to "contain" Saddam forever (Uday and Qusay would've taken over later) so he could pay these countries back and the corrupt UN could continue to skim billions.   Perhaps I'm lacking in "nuance" but this doesn't seem right.

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 9:15:49 PM

sissifytoserve

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Memo to Congressman Rangel: I would like to hope then, that your draft legislation will make it MANDATORY for all serving in congress to have at least one close familiy member in the military, and that this would be a stipulation before they can even run for office.

Perhaps the US would pick its military fights a LITTLE more carefully if it's not always "other peoples' kids" doing the fighting, and getting maimed and killed.

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The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 9:16:34 PM

mnottertail

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there is no difference in this between you and me............

I might only disagree in Quigong ............

Will and Void..............Wushu in fact
If we have influence in I raq, it will only be because the horror of my slaughtering millions of the dogs is greater than 100s of thousands as Saddam did.
Otherwise we are in there piping in Shania Twain...........that don't impress me much.

We agree..........
The one that forgives time will make their place here, I am well past the right and wrong of this thing, but even fundamentalist christians should behold their god and agree that the only way to settle this to our advantage is to slaughter every man, woman and child in that country....................because we shall see them again in history if we do not, so we either A) walk out which is bad enough cause we should have never been there, and pick this fight up a couple hundred or thousand years from now (cause the world will be here beyond our passing) or we B) slaughter every one of the cocksuckers, every man woman child and associate, and never ever never ever deal with this again.................
anything else is a dream.

NevilleChamberlain

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 9:21:24 PM

mnottertail

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I have assurance from Congressman Rangel that he is able to shimmy around the serving of his country at least as well at the draft dodger and traitor Bush has.

Dick Cheney,
riding shotgun for the american people(after vietnam).

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RE: Rangel D-NY wants to reinstate draft - 11/19/2006 9:31:43 PM

saskslave

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Don't forget the real draft dodger--The Adulterer-in-Chief Bill Clinton.

But not America's greatest war hero - John Francois Kerry (who btw served in Vietnam) - who collected 17 Purple Hearts, 11 Silver Stars, and a Captain Cody Ring from a Cracker Jacks box--all in 4 months and with nary a scratch on him.