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Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 8:13:22 AM

sissifytoserve

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Kissinger: NO victory in Iraq

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-britain-iraq-kissinger,0,6066670.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 8:25:26 AM

sissifytoserve

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Bush agenda = Failure.

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 8:26:47 AM

WyrdRich

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Good God, Sissify, do you read past the quick quote that fits your fear-mongering? There is absolutely nothing new here and Kissinger goes right on to say we can't just leave.

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 8:33:20 AM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

Good God, Sissify, do you read past the quick quote that fits your fear-mongering? There is absolutely nothing new here and Kissinger goes right on to say we can't just leave.

We already achieved victory; we got Saddam.
What we have currently is not a "war" it's just an "occupation" and those never work.
And we certainly (can) leave.
"Here's the keys to your new country, enjoy."
If the Iraqis want freedom it's totally up to them.
Now, let's go into Pakistan and get Bin Laden and al qeada!

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 8:47:32 AM

sissifytoserve

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" military men..are dumb..stupid animals...
to be used as pawns for foreign policy".

-- Henry Kissinger as quoted in the book “Kiss the Boys Goodbye"

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 8:49:31 AM

WyrdRich

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There is a Ben Franklin quote that has thrown around a lot these past few years, about trading Freedom for security, but old Ben also said something a lot more appropriate to the people in Iraq, "Force shits on Reason's back." We leave, there is utter chaos, and that chaos will start affecting the lives of everybody in this country mighty fast.

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 8:58:13 AM

sissifytoserve

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I can't wait.

There is going to be a MAJOR Congressional review about WHAT WENT WRONG in Iraq and an investigation
into WHY we went into the war in the first place (based on lies).In 2007.

Bush and Cheney are as good as toast if the truth comes out.

..and donny Rumpsmell is already facing charges.

< Message edited by sissifytoserve -- 11/19/2006 8:59:23 AM >

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 9:07:15 AM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

There is a Ben Franklin quote that has thrown around a lot these past few years, about trading Freedom for security, but old Ben also said something a lot more appropriate to the people in Iraq, "Force shits on Reason's back." We leave, there is utter chaos, and that chaos will start affecting the lives of everybody in this country mighty fast.

Good, let them have their civil war and sort things out.
It's just a shooting gallery for our Troops now anyway.
I can't and never could understand why people think or thought that Henry Kissinger is "intelligent."
Is it because he got "good marks" in college?

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 9:54:58 AM

sissifytoserve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Good, let them have their civil war and sort things out.
It's just a shooting gallery for our Troops now anyway.

Gee....and WHO'S fault is that....Saddams?

Uh huh...yeah ok.

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 11:39:59 AM

saskslave

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quote:

Good God, Sissify, do you read past the quick quote that fits your fear-mongering? There is absolutely nothing new here and Kissinger goes right on to say we can't just leave.

Reminds me of the Old Media. Here's a quote from an interview with Tony Blair:

"During the interview, Sir David [Frost] suggested that the West’s intervention in Iraq had “so far been pretty much of a disaster”.

Blair replied: “It has, but you see what I say to people is why is it difficult in Iraq? It’s not difficult because of some accident in planning, it’s difficult because there’s a deliberate strategy - al-Qaeda with Sunni insurgents on one hand, Iranian-backed elements with Shia militias on the other - to create a situation in which the will of the majority for peace is displaced by the will of the minority for war."

The Australian Age's headline?

Iraq invasion a disaster: Blair
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/iraq-invasion-a-disaster-blair/2006/11/18/1163266825991.html

< Message edited by saskslave -- 11/19/2006 11:41:01 AM >

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 11:57:36 AM

LadyEllen

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The real news for me is that Kissinger's still around. I was sure he'd died a few years back.

Or was that me?

E

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 12:01:15 PM

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Henry Kissinger, in my personal opinion a true conservative (one I can identify most with), is completly right....the Iraq intervention has been a disaster any one way you look at it....for American troops, for Iraqis, no gains in oil prices for the US, no real democracy in Iraq but just chaos and lawlesness....I mean if this is how the US plans on "rescuing" countries for democracy, they might as well just not bother....and to leave now would be a mistake, because the insurgent groups and religious fanatics would be in the best position to take power.....and then if that happens...Iraq will for sure become a real threat to the region with a radical almost fundamentalist regime that will certainly try to threaten the United States and its interests, much more than old crazy Saddam.
Therefore, the only solution, maybe short term (since already American policy makers want to leave), is to train a hardcore Iraqi army and commanders, instill unitary nationalism in their ranks, and have them do a coup....its the best way at least to maintain civil order (albeit, imposed), and a friendly-regime to the US, and who eventually, if its a more responsable regime, it can hand more power to civilians in the future or can be coaxed to do so. Unfortunately, in these situations one can never know for sure the outcome. Iraqis are simply not ready for democracy, and the destabilizing situation now would not allow a democracy to take hold. The roots of the Iraqi fiasco lie that in the beginning American troops were unwilling to "impose" order at all costs, which is what the people were used to.

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 12:04:47 PM

LadyEllen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterKalif

Therefore, the only solution, maybe short term (since already American policy makers want to leave), is to train a hardcore Iraqi army and commanders, instill unitary nationalism in their ranks, and have them do a coup....its the best way at least to maintain civil order (albeit, imposed), and a friendly-regime to the US,

(Partial quote)

The irony of this, is that is what Saddam did!

E

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 12:21:32 PM

Zensee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
We already achieved victory; we got Saddam.

Now, let's go into Pakistan and get Bin Laden and al qeada!

Mission Accomplished! \o/ Yayyyy!

Saddam lives. Many Coalition soldiers no longer do and even more Iraqi citizens have died and will die as a direct result of this "rescue".

Now you want to get out of the ant hill and get into the hornet's nest? Attack a sovereign, Moslem ally who has nukes? On all levels, strategic, diplomatic, military, humanitarian... this is about the most irresponsible suggestion imaginable. Somehow it is not surprising though.

BTW, I have this lovely bridge you might like to add to your collection.

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 12:33:14 PM

MasterKalif

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
(Partial quote)

The irony of this, is that is what Saddam did!

E

LadyEllen, while it may seem that Saddam did those things, they were for personal gain (or at least that is what it became), and plus he has been in power for more than 30 years (if we count his influence behnd the scenes before he became de-facto president in 1978)...the idea is to train a more modern army, use the unitary nationalism that Saddam also used (so that they don't see themselves as Sunnis, Shiites, Kurds, etc but rather as "Iraqis", and saddly a country like that, specially in such chaos, before any "rebuilding" can be done, before any "democracy" can be installed, needs to first and foremost procure security for its citizens...everything else can came afterwards after some civility and peace has returned...in my opinion half of these issues could have been avoided by a simple, old school CIA assasination of Saddam when in power, and then deal with the top Baathits officials to bring some form of change.

< Message edited by MasterKalif -- 11/19/2006 12:34:37 PM >

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 1:26:16 PM

seeksfemslave

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If the intervention in Iraq has turned out disastrously that is because of the hatred of the peace loving Muslims for one another. !
Isn't it. ?
Offered the opportunity to run their own country peacefully and what do they do ?

As for Dr Death Kissinger, the less said the better.!

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 1:30:15 PM

sissifytoserve

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We should have never invaded in the first place...period.

Bush and Cheney should be courtmartialed and tried for lying to the American people.

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 1:33:13 PM

LadyEllen

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Agreed MKalif! My quote of your post was meant in half jest; I know it didnt really happen that way to start with.

My own opinion is, that it was stupid to remove Saddam at all; horrendous monster that he was, he was the right pawn for the job in the management of the Middle East - keeping his neighbours and their agendas in check.

When we pull out, the way it looks to me, Iraq will become a client state to Iran, who already have much influence there. Not long after, we will have effectively a new Islamic Persian Empire, from the eastern Med to the Bay of Bengal, with control of a lot of oil and the Suez canal via Saudi Arabia which will also come into the fold, protected from our intervention by nuclear weapons. Then, we will be truly fxxxed.

Cheery soul, aint I?

E

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 1:51:13 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
We already achieved victory; we got Saddam.

Now, let's go into Pakistan and get Bin Laden and al qeada!

Mission Accomplished! \o/ Yayyyy!

Saddam lives. Many Coalition soldiers no longer do and even more Iraqi citizens have died and will die as a direct result of this "rescue".

Now you want to get out of the ant hill and get into the hornet's nest? Attack a sovereign, Moslem ally who has nukes? On all levels, strategic, diplomatic, military, humanitarian... this is about the most irresponsible suggestion imaginable. Somehow it is not surprising though.

BTW, I have this lovely bridge you might like to add to your collection.

Zensee, did I say "attack" Pakistan?
No, just send people in there and get them.
Troops, Special Forces, CIA, or "others."
Pakistan doesn't even control the Western Tribal regions of it's own country anyway.
We have far more people invading the U.S. from Mexico but I don't hear anyone complaining about the U.S.'s "sovereignty" being invaded.

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RE: Kissinger: No victory in Iraq - 11/19/2006 2:07:56 PM

meatcleaver

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If Kissinger was a citizen of another country the US would be sending in troops to neutralise him. He's a man who is considered by many around the world to be a war criminal. It is this irony that makes the ivasion of Iraq so laughable.

As for Blair, he gets ever more meally mouthed over the issue of Iraq by the day that he really doesn't know any longer what truths (if there is any) or lies he has told over the issue. As for his Freudian slip, he only said what everyone but idiots can see. Iraq is a disaster!

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/19/2006 2:08:40 PM >

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