Passively Denying Authority

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

Passively Denying Authority

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Passively Denying Authority

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Passively Denying Authority - 11/12/2006 4:01:10 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

One of the things that I have had to wrap my brain around the last two years is to not passively deny him authority. Active defiance of his authority doesn't happen, but figuring out the things that passively deny him authority has been a learning experience. An example is not asking for something that I want. In not asking for what I want I am making the decision and not giving him the authority to make the decision.

The following are some of his other biggest pet peeves and will piss him off rather quickly:

Not talking about my thoughts and feelings
Withholding information to not burden him
Handling things myself and not discussing it with him

What other areas can a submissive passively deny the dominant authority within their relationship? Do others see passively denying authority in these ways as a problem?

Knight's kyra

*edited to fix layout... sometimes things don't transfer that well from Word to collarme.

< Message edited by kyraofMists -- 11/12/2006 4:17:20 PM >

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

Post #: 1

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/12/2006 4:14:04 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

Great topic, Kyra.

Passive denial was one of the hardest hurdles for me to jump. I do see it as one of the methods which can be used to undermine authority and for me, I have no wish to engage it in so had to make a conscious effort to let go of that piece of me that thought I was doing the right thing even if it was for the wrong reason. Trying to deny him the option and decision making by failing to give him all the information I had at my disposal was no different from being the one who held the actual authority in the relationship and since, despite his many admirable qualities, Himself is not a mind reader, he was not clued in when I kept things from him. It's that old saying.. you don't know what you don't know.

I learned, in time (mostly through effort to be transparent) that, actually, it became easier just to tell him everything and then what happened, happened .. good, bad or indifferent. It came as rather a shock to me that those things which I withheld actually didn't break the man and he was able to handle all the things I kept hidden from him, for what it turns out, was really no good reason at all. He's stronger than he looks. ::chuckles::

The other stuff, telling him what I enjoy, what turns me on, that came a lot later when I was comfortable enough to actually understand it was OK to get pleasure .. and that he actually enjoys me being pleased (on occasion). It was and is a process well worth pursuing as it has strengthened our bond and our trust. Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 2

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/12/2006 4:22:45 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

I have a "fix-it" issue. I want to fix everything, I think sometimes this falls into that category.

I also have a habit of reading things between the lines rather than at face value and that gets me into trouble with passivley denying Master authority too.

Nice topic by the way

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 3

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/12/2006 4:23:29 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

Thank you Celeste.

These days with him, it is not so much that I don't think he can handle it, but that he is so busy already. He just started a new job where he is on call 24/7. Most days he finishes work and is too tired to even think, much less talk about things. It is almost like learning to communicate with him all over again; finding new ways to share the information and what is going on.

Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 4

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/12/2006 5:37:58 PM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

WOW. kyra I have to say this is very though provokeing. I know there are things I do like that. me and Master are still in a rather new relationship and well I know there are things I would like to do and try and am WAAYYY to shy to talk to him about (I am a very sexualy reserved and shy person I dont readily share my desires with anyone) I dont know I think maybe some part of me is holding it back because Master really haveing total controll over even my inner most thoughts and desires is waayy scary for me!!!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 5

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/12/2006 6:22:07 PM

darksdesire

Posts: 326
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline

egads. What a fantastic question. Not passively denying his authority is something i continue to work on. My Master's rules are very much the same in that i am not allowed to withhold my thoughts and feelings, attempt to protect him or shield him by handling things myself, or make major decisions without his approval. This takes a lot of conscious effort though, because there is an impulse, as his slave, to make his life easier and less burdensome and this desire is sometimes in conflict with those rules. It has been hard for me to understand that he truly wants that responsibility for my life and my emotional well being, that he actually wants to be "burdened" by me. He demonstrates this time and time again, and still i don't always get it.

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 6

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/12/2006 6:23:37 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

I think one of the other most common ones is "beating yourself up mentally/emotionally in punishment."

I know most relationships solve this by having the dom EXPLICITLY and PHYSICALLY punish the slave in order to stop this process....but it still doesn't solve the problem that the slave is the one who is taking it upon themselves to judge their actions as right or wrong AND to punish themselves for it. It's another expression of the perfectionist/control freak personality and it definitely isn't allowing the dom to be in authority.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 7

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/12/2006 6:55:54 PM

Daddysredhead

Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline

Kyra, you have no idea how timely this topic is for me.
I have been wondering how I can help break myself of resisting the authority I have deferred to Him. I'm pretty good at expressing my needs, desires, interests, and curiosities although it has taken some time to get there. My biggest problem is not wanting to tell Him things that may upset Him. I try to "fix" the situation my way, instead of letting Him take care of things. An example of this is about 2 months ago, a guy where I work was showing me a picture of his niece on his cell phone and then clicked "next" and started showing me pictures of his dick. I just looked at him and said, "What the hell?! I'm not impressed, keep your little dick pictures to yourself unless you want [Daddy] involved." He never did it again, and kept his distance. Two days after that episode, I was having lunch with Daddy, and I asked Him, "If something happened and I believe I took care of it, would You still want to know about it, or is that something that I should just keep quiet about?" It was more than just that particular instance that I was inquiring of (for the future), but of course, He knew that there was something on my mind. He said, "Tell me everything and tell me now." We sat down and I told Him what happened and that the guy had stayed away from me since. I told Him that I was not sure if telling Him something after I felt it was taken care of was "stirring the pot" or causing Him unnecessary upset, and that I was quiet for two days because I was scared that I had waited to ask, and was therefore scared of His response. He understood me, but said that I was to be truthful and let Him decide if it was worth Him getting upset. He said that the very nature of our relationship was to ensure that I did not have to worry about these things but rather hand them to Him to deal with. He agreed to not pursue the matter at my office further unless anything else occurred, however, He made certain that every time He came to pick me up for lunch, He came inside the building - to my desk - and got me, rather than meet me at the restaurant or have me come out to the car.

This type of thing is what I have a death-grip on and I am just not sure why I can't let it go easier than I do. I just want to prevent Him added stress, but me being stressed out is worse than just letting Him take care of things in His way, I think.

~ DRH

edited for typo

< Message edited by Daddysredhead -- 11/12/2006 7:33:00 PM >

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 8

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/12/2006 7:06:31 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Yeah. I have been hanging out in the MSN Lifestyle boards lately and it honestly amazes me how so many relationships have the "unspoken lists of things we don't discuss" as an integral part of their relationship.

Maybe it's my personality or maybe it's how I interact with people, and I know I've said this before- but I simply CANNOT imagine being in a long term committed relationship and NOT telling them anything.

Now, I've cheated and lied in the past, so I know how and why you justify it at the time. But when you're secure with them? Why? I can understand not knowing HOW to say it, or being worried about saying it, or needing time to think before saying it. But seriously thinking you SHOULD hide something? It boggles me just how many relationships are built on that as a basic part of their relationship.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Daddysredhead)

Post #: 9

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/12/2006 7:14:47 PM

Daddysredhead

Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline

I think that part of my breaking out of this pattern is based on a 13 year marriage where my ex used to tell me, "If you think you've handled it, then don't bother me with it. Consider it resolved." That type of "training" and for that long takes quite a bit of behavior modification to "unlearn."

edited to add that I do not feel, nor did Daddy, feel that I had lied or cheated in the particular instance that I mentioned earlier, just in case the comment of justifying one's lying and cheating was a reference to that. He and I have had great discussions about holding things back, protecting, lies by omission, etc. as a result of this and many other conversations. I would never intentionally do that to someone I consider my best friend.

< Message edited by Daddysredhead -- 11/12/2006 7:23:48 PM >

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 10

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/12/2006 7:23:39 PM

akisha

Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline

I'd say my biggest problem is trying to guess at what he wants instead of asking. Instead of trusting i assume things, instead of going to him like i should i try do what i think is wanted instead of knowing what is wanted.

lol perfect example... the other weekend just because He did something the night before I assumed that it was alright for me to do it the next night and did so with out asking. One of the times i got repremanded for thinking for myself. No Sir does not micromanage but for somethings i really need to learn that i'm to ask first not just assume i already know the answer.

This is one of the many things that i need to remember.

_____________________________

I'm confused.... No wait!!! Maybe I'm not

It's not a blonde moment! It's momentary peroxide posioning. ;)

Your pain makes me smile ~ Happy Bunny

532-095-649

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 11

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/12/2006 7:42:37 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

Awesome thought provoking thread Kyra. Very very very good points!

(in reply to Daddysredhead)

Post #: 12

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/12/2006 8:21:58 PM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

My main issue has always been around holding back on my thoughts or feelings primarily because I have a tendency of being able to cut to the quick (so to speak) if I'm being honest. It tends to be hard for me to find excessively tactful ways to be completely honest. I'm fine with being tactful if I'm being dodgy, but being absolutely honest especially about emotions which can be hard to describe can be hard for me to put tactfully. So rather than be blunt and possibly rude I have had a tendency to just shut down. My owners very good at spotting when that happens these days, and I'm getting better at just saying how I feel and not worrying about tact (the less I worry about it, the less blunt and tactless my comments are I find).

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 13

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/12/2006 10:56:36 PM

MasterNdorei

Posts: 658
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

passively denying Him authority...
i have noticed myself putting a positive spin on certain things when i discuss them... thinking i can spare Him grief/worry/etc... i am not sure this is actually passive, but this phase feels like the nail has been hit on the head... along with the slave...
What a great thread!

Master's dorei

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

Post #: 14

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/12/2006 11:31:11 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I think one of the other most common ones is "beating yourself up mentally/emotionally in punishment."

I know most relationships solve this by having the dom EXPLICITLY and PHYSICALLY punish the slave in order to stop this process....but it still doesn't solve the problem that the slave is the one who is taking it upon themselves to judge their actions as right or wrong AND to punish themselves for it. It's another expression of the perfectionist/control freak personality and it definitely isn't allowing the dom to be in authority.

He conquered this in me by making it very clear that he is the only one allowed to berate me, and I am no longer allowed to berate myself. He set that rule right away, as I was the queen of self criticism. So now if I feel badly about something, and it has been resolved, he tells me it's done, and let it go, and I am actually able to. He has never come back at me about an issue that was considered resolved. That helped, too.

As for other ways of passively denying authority, all those that I used to do have been listed, except the one where I'd want him to be a certain way or do a certain thing and he wasn't being that way or doing that thing, and I'd feel upset or hurt by it as opposed to a) asking him for what it was I wanted; or b) accepting things the way they are. But I think I've conquered that, too....I think....it hasn't been long enough to make me feel secure in that yet :)

I don't know if that's actually denying authority or just learning a particular kind of acceptance though.

Great thread, kyra, there have been some really important things listed here.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 15

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/12/2006 11:50:44 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

I'll be reading, learning, and forwarding thoughts for reference, because I have had this annoying experience with one or two otherwise kool gentlemen subs (with slave potential), who do not give me enough of what I need by way of information, while saying they crave/desire my control... M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 16

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/12/2006 11:56:42 PM

GentleDom3nNipps

Posts: 8
Joined: 10/21/2006
Status: offline

Kyra i think you pretty much nailed it mdear, this was a very interesting topic to me, as i feel few submissive's get this, and fail to see how not asking, or not giving us the chance to make a decision is reall a bad thing for the intimacy D/s strives for.
Withholding information to not burden me, is something my Nancy (Barenipples) still struggles with, but she is seeing how it is my duty, and honor to have her needs and worries come to my attention, as we are in this together. I was thrilled to see this brought up an excellent post KyraofMist.
As for other ways, ill think on that and get back to it, but i must say what you listed seem to be the big 3 ways i have seen

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 17

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/12/2006 11:57:16 PM

diamonddreamlove

Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline

Just had this conversation with Sir tonight. I had not asked His opinion about something because i knew He was busy. His response was yes I am busy but not too busy for you. Then He went on to remind me that He can not take responsibility for me if He is not given the option to do so. We are still trying to work out the areas of control since we are not 24/7. However this is an area that does concern me. I know it is a trust issue for me to ask another to solve my problems. Don't know how many times i have used the term never mind and now i have been told that will not be in my vocabulary any longer. Sir has figured out my tricks all to fast and well. No one has ever done that before in my life and it is wonderfully scary. Giving up the control of passively denying authority is a tough problem for me and it needs tons of work. Thanks for bringing up the topic is nice to know how others are working on the same type of problem.

_____________________________

"Many attempts to communicate are nullified by saying too much." Robert Greenleaf

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 18

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/13/2006 4:33:19 AM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

Excellent thread, kyra. There's a lot to be learned from a number of the responses given so far.

Speaking for myself, I want to know everything.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to diamonddreamlove)

Post #: 19

RE: Passively Denying Authority - 11/13/2006 4:39:52 AM

Kalira

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline

While Master expects me to talk about things, no matter how little, big, or insignificant I may think they are, he has never shown anger that I might hold something back for fear of upsetting him or overburdening him.

He can usually tell when I have something on my mind,and simply states two words " Tell me" which is quite sufficient to open me up

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 20

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Passively Denying Authority

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.109