party political or just political (Full Version)

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philosophy -> party political or just political (11/6/2006 8:56:58 AM)

"If you are political....you have to subscribe to some party affiliation"

......this was posted in another thread by everyone's favourite angry sissy........does such an attitude (shared by more than just sissy probably) merely label political thought and thus make it easier to channel? Or is it merely pragmatic politics?




Archer -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 9:22:02 AM)

Party politics is an exercise in pragmatism. There are a few true believers in each party overall the parties consist of smaller interest groups gathered around the few items they hold in common belief, and thos who have a few issuesthat outweigh the others and their interests are best served at the time by joining forces with the party.

Generally we have a difference in when consensous is built rather than any real differece in the fact that it is built n the same ay as governments with more than two major parties.

We consolidate in our interest groups prior to the elections while most of the world consolidates after them.




FirmhandKY -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 9:23:53 AM)

I think you can be "political" without being a member of a political party.  However, if you wish to have your political ideas work towards effecting change in the political environment, then starting or joining a political party is helpful.  [:)]

FirmKY




toservez -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 9:52:47 AM)

I am very political and I do not have a party. I have been voting for Democrats mostly since 2000, but not out of love of them or their candidates. I have volunteered for candidates from both parties in my time. I may not like how the two party system has turned out or is being run currently, but I do not believe that why bother is a very good way to live life either. That is what most of the bad ones from both sides count on too much.






LadyEllen -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 9:56:46 AM)

I'm starting the British Revolutionary Communist Party For An Islamic National Socialist Republic.
I need motivated members but also need as big an appeal as possible you see.
Do you think this might catch on?

E




philosophy -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 9:59:01 AM)

..in another thread the general cynicism of the electorate was brought up, and it was asked why this occurs......is it possible that our political systems, by being party based, are contributing to this? In an age where single issue politics is becoming the norm rather than the preserve of fanatics should we (the West in general) be looking for a new way of organising our political systems....a system that allows individuals to participate meaningfully, as opposed to towing a party line?
It seems to me, and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence on these boards, that by labelling ourselves as one party or another, or even as espousing a specific political philosophy we simply open ourselves to partisan attack. In such attacks the issues get lost.......ergo cynicism.




juliaoceania -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 10:22:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

"If you are political....you have to subscribe to some party affiliation"

......this was posted in another thread by everyone's favourite angry sissy........does such an attitude (shared by more than just sissy probably) merely label political thought and thus make it easier to channel? Or is it merely pragmatic politics?


More political than most and i have no political party




ToGiveDivine -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 11:19:42 AM)

I party pretty hard before I vote - does that count?

Being drunk makes punching any chad less painful ;-)




KenDckey -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 11:21:41 AM)

I believe that active party affiliation is a means to promoting change.    Doesn't mean you believe in the entire dogma of the party, but can work towards changing that dogma into what you belive.   By just voting, then I don't believe that you are really changing the prevailing dogma of anything and usually wind up voting for the lessor of evils.




NorthernGent -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 11:22:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

"If you are political....you have to subscribe to some party affiliation"

......this was posted in another thread by everyone's favourite angry sissy........does such an attitude (shared by more than just sissy probably) merely label political thought and thus make it easier to channel? Or is it merely pragmatic politics?


It's vague and given the chance maybe sissy can explain exactly what he means by the above.

If he means being political is a waste of time unless you subscribe to a party then he has a point because the mechanism for change is through the pressure of a political movement.

However, he may be forgetting that while many are political (in terms of holding a defined view on Governance) they've also become disillusioned with the whole political process and as such do not subscribe to a party.

In sum, further clarification is need on the true meaning of the statement.




meatcleaver -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 11:47:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

"If you are political....you have to subscribe to some party affiliation"

......this was posted in another thread by everyone's favourite angry sissy........does such an attitude (shared by more than just sissy probably) merely label political thought and thus make it easier to channel? Or is it merely pragmatic politics?


I don't subscribe to any party because of the compromises one has to make and all the biggest social reforms in history have been won outside of the legislature and are merely rubber stamped by the legislature once the people have decided they want them. Career politicians are by their nature followers pretending to be leaders and not leaders. They merely ride the wave of public opinion and don't lead opinion.




LotusSong -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 12:14:55 PM)

Being there are only two ways to vote.. yes or no.  Up or down.. black or white.  Eventhe Indepenants have to choose who they are going to side with.
 
And an aside:  I get a call from the election board on Saturday asking if I had sent my early voting ballot in.. they can't seem to find it.  (a recording of course)




Archer -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 12:23:17 PM)

Well many of us have more ways to vote than just two, we have two ways to vote on referendums and 2+ ways to vote for congress and state government offices.

I'll be "wasting my vote" many times tomarrow but it may help ensure that the Libertarians stay on the ballot without having t file the petition every election.




LotusSong -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 12:29:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I'm starting the British Revolutionary Communist Party For An Islamic National Socialist Republic.
I need motivated members but also need as big an appeal as possible you see.
Do you think this might catch on?

E
   Do you think Tony might be interested?  I hear he is going to be looking for a job soon :)




Mercnbeth -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 1:04:13 PM)

I'm politically active, and very opinionated, but refuse to be cornered by any party. Although my positions in recent years have led to more Republican versus Democratic candidates, I see the cause of that more as a disassociation than party identification. I know that any party or person that has to resort to banal name calling, and whose constituency leads every opinion with an obscenity against the opposition has no substance and is better suited for elementary school class leadership.  However, I am one of those that the conservative talk show hosts are pleading to vote the Republican ticket or to not "punish" the Republicans by not voting. In the 33 years I have had the privilege to vote, I've voted issues as a first consideration over party. This year's issue is simple. I am not happy with any aspect of how my country is being governed. This year my votes will go to anyone NOT incumbent. In CA, I'll be voting a split ticket, and I know I'm "wasting" my vote against the incumbent Senator, as well as the Governor. It's rare that you remember any particular lesson taught in college so many years removed; however my votes are based on one professor's lesson. He said the only vote you have in an election is to vote for or against what is occurring. The idea holds from local, to national elections. I am voting my adamant opposition to the way my State and my Country is being run.  President Bush, does not represent the principals of me or many of the disenfranchised members of his party on issues such as immigration, spending, or his handling of the terrorist threat. He is using US assets, both material and human, to police a county devoid of any understanding of Democracy or desire to learn. Further, President Bush's wants to interject his views regarding censorship, and other issues that I consider "bedroom" issues; beyond the concern of my government. No, I am not for same sex marriage but its due to economic reasons versus prejudice. However, I'm even less concerned that Janet Jackson's nipple was displayed for 2 1/2 seconds. I don't need the government to make an issue and establish laws regarding a situation that is resolved by changing the channel.  I'm also voting this way, because I am confident that a Democratic Congress and/or Senate will result in massive new taxes, weaker defense, and more entitlement programs. I also believe that our Muslim adversaries will be strengthened by a Democratic win, and will push their agenda further with the perceived weakness. Winning both houses, they will control funding to the military, leading to some sort of "peace with honor" surrender. When it doesn't happen fast enough, and without the nuisance of considering an ongoing US occupation in Iraq to bog them down, I expect an onslaught of Muslim terrorist attacks on US soil. The teeth and funding will be pulled from the Patriot Act, and although most of us never made nor were concerned about their international calls being monitored by computers we won't have to worry about that any longer; neither will our adversaries. Finally you can predict the future by observing the past. I believe that without Jimmy Carter, there could not have been a President Ronald Reagan. The current leaders in the Republican party have forgotten that less government is what the people want. They have forgotten that the majority of US citizens value personal responsibility and accountability and see those as honorable and preferred over government handouts. This time the lesson will be more expensive, and more than likely, result in more US citizen and military blood spilled, but it will be learned. I only hope that it isn't so drastic an occurrence to spawn the end of US Democracy. I note from history, that most dictators were first put in power first through mass acclamation. A mass disaster on a national scale will create a US environment ripe for just such an occurrence.  I am not voting against or for; I'm voting NO CONFIDENCE.




gypsygrl -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 1:28:44 PM)

If you're political, and feel your politics deeply, the last thing you want to do is join a party.  The whole point of political parties is to take the politics out of politics, and turn conflicts into administrative problems.




Archer -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 1:43:24 PM)

In many place the horse trading is done after the voting and thus the compromises are done beyond the control of the voters to a greater degree than in places where the horse trading is done at the party conventions and when the people vote they at least know which groups are in bed with who.





sissifytoserve -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 1:48:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I think you can be "political" without being a member of a political party. However, if you wish to have your political ideas work towards effecting change in the political environment, then starting or joining a political party is helpful. [:)]

FirmKY



Duh!!!!

This is what I said all along......

But a certain sore individual had to actually start up a consensus thread to try and demonize me for my views.

How pathetic.




MmakeMme -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 3:55:20 PM)

I don't think you need to be a part of any party. If you find the democratic candidate does better things for this or that pet issue, vote for him or her, and likewise for repub, indi, green, libertarian, whatever. I do not belong to a political party. Then again, I am becoming more and more apolitical as I age. Perhaps I should start my own party. Of course I would not win an office - I have far too much of an interesting and fun past. (And unlike some other unnamed holder of high offices, I inhaled.)




philosophy -> RE: party political or just political (11/6/2006 4:21:23 PM)

"But a certain sore individual had to actually start up a consensus thread to try and demonize me for my views."

...nope not demonising......i was just struck by the idea you expressed. Seemed a fair time to discuss party politics as (maybe) opposed to personal politics........now, if instead of being defensive you just joined in, you might just prove your point...... 




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