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RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 6:31:34 AM   
imtempting


Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: trannysub007



So, im, have you recently become the Expert of Everything on CM?  Perhaps you are attracting attention because of the silly things you say? Maybe you are just needy for attention at this time in your life?  While i haven't read all of your posts, the ones i have read are all negative towards Dominants. (Note the spelling please - it's Dominant, not Dominate. Dominate is a verb. Just FYI)  
i suspect that you base your thinking, with regard to this thread, on the posts you have seen from unhappy submissives. Most of the posting i have read on CM about the relationship involved in collaring has been about contracts in some way, about commitment, about mutual involvement in the relationship. Any Dominant who is not ready to invest in the relationship is not worth the sub's time and energy. JMO. Have fun posting your new threads. =-)

david

edited for the usual grammar/spelling/punctuation stuff. <sigh>


Recently. I thought I always was ( sarcasim people ). No its not just from un-happy submissives. Look in this thread amd  you will see other people thinking the same as me.

Stay on the boars long enough and you will see.

at kalira. if my thinking needs to be reevaluated then why are people agreeing with me?

< Message edited by imtempting -- 10/29/2006 6:32:07 AM >

(in reply to trannysub007)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 6:35:26 AM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline 		I tend to shy away from claims that "everyone" does just about anything.

quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting
This thinking should end.



...Just about the only statement in the OP with which I agree.
Yes, imtempting, this thinking that broad-sweeping statements with little or no basis in fact make good posts should end.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to imtempting)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 6:38:56 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Statements that end or begin with "always" "never" "forever" tend to be wrong. I have had a variable experience on this board, I have seen as many dogpiles on doms as on subs

It is all in your own view I suppose

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 6:41:05 AM   
imtempting


Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather

I tend to shy away from claims that "everyone" does just about anything.

quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting
This thinking should end.



...Just about the only statement in the OP with which I agree.
Yes, imtempting, this thinking that broad-sweeping statements with little or no basis in fact make good posts should end.


And everyone that has agrreed with me are fools aswell i gather according to you?

(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 6:47:59 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Hmmmm... who posted the word "fool"? I did not see that in her post, that is your interpretation. My teenager does that, I say one thing and he interprets my words to mean something I did not say.

She never said anyone was a fool, she disagreed with your opinion... it is allowed you know

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to imtempting)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 6:52:00 AM   
BDSM05478


Posts: 417
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		while reading this tread it crossed my mind was the OP talking about real life D/s M/s relationships or just those fly by night cyber D/s ones. I know for Us, a collar is more than a word, it is a promise, a commitment. It is never given lightly nor is it taken away with out anythought. We are all people first and formost...... which means we have feelings, wants and needs. I suppose the type of relationship the OP meant equates to the current view of fiance in the vanilla world.... any partner you've been with longer than six months is intitled to be called fiance...... riducules. I can not even fathom a Dominat just casually discarding any submissive that they have collared..... but then again that is my own short coming because I hold people to the same standards i hold myself too.

(in reply to imtempting)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 6:58:20 AM   
demistress


Posts: 391
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Dela-where?
Status: offline 		What I think is amusing is that this entire thread is based on the sub saying  "I DID THIS.. and was punished" the slave took an action, one they knew would be unacceptable, against the rules, whatever.  If they're coming on here saying that, then yes, chances are whatever it is is their fault.  I do not think everything is ALWAYS the subs fault, and I'm fairly sure most people agree that Masters and Mistresses can do things that are "wrong" or inappropriate.  Even those of us referred to as Goddess tend to be human underneath :P

_____________________________

Mistress Heather
www.niteflirt.com/MizzSpice

Wether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right!

(in reply to BDSM05478)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 7:04:10 AM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		One of the problems is that, instead of resolving problems between themselves privately, subs and doms alike come in here, air their dirty laundry, and then get all perturbed  when others offer opinions or advice or suggestions or just pass judgement, especially when they don't hear what they want or hope to hear. 

It seems to be important to those who start threads in here seeking validation for something they did, rather than just trusting their own judgement and not worrying about what "everyone" else thinks about them. 

< Message edited by windchymes -- 10/29/2006 7:12:03 AM >

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to demistress)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 7:09:55 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		In some respects I agree with what Imtempting said in his op...people are often told "you're the sub".... but I disagree that every poster to any given thread from a sub seeking advice on a d/s relationship problem has told the submissive to pull their head in ... quite a few people give quite openly of themselves on these boards and don't automatically default to some trite response.  I think Imtempting, this is where you op loses it's lustre ... you assume you are the only person to ever think outside the status quo ..when in fact, all that an op like yours does is insult the many people who do offer sage advice and observations between the static and knee jerk reactions ...
 
I know an automatic default of dominant = shown respect,  sub = be respectful ... does your head in ... so I can see where a sub being told to pull her or his head in when questioning the d/s dynamic they have with their partner can cause you some grief ...but I see a lot of self labelled submissives who are completely ignorant to the fact that yes submission does involve actually involve an element of subservience to someone else ... don't like the inferority implied in that statement...well suxs to be you ... submission isn't a rose garden ...
 
I'll take exception to your statements that a dominant would drop a sub in seconds...though I agree with you that the sentiment does get bandied about here quite often ...from both male and female doms ... to kick them to the curb ... but I guess that's one of the quirks of boards like this and society in general ... it's easy to be flippant about what you would do in any given situation ...because it's not you in the scenario ... the poster doesn't really have to give a shite how his or her words come across ...or how much their words contribute to the thinking you yourself are reflecting.   My advice ... get a clue ... most people value their relationships better than that. 
 
Back to the idea that the sub is always at fault ... I too get sick of reading this ... ie the dom just has to breath and passively exist ... after the words "I'm your dom, your my submissive" is uttered that life is going to be a magical la la land.  A dog doesn't train itself, nor does a submissive...yet I read so many doms who think a sub should just magically obey because someone said they were their dom.  But I also see a lot of submissives who play a huge part in their own problems ... putting unrealistic expectations on partners who aren't equipped to dominate them in the manner they want...hoping that somehow he or she will magically metamorphis into the dom of their dreams.
 
Domination is an art ... it has a structure, it has proven techniques and tools ... and it isn't submission on someone else's terms ...

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


Visit My Website


(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 7:11:01 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		General reply to OP:

I agree to some extent and noticed such a thing last night on one of the threads.  I wouldnt say "everyone" automatically sides with the dominant party, but I would say the "majority" do, in general, anytime such an issue is raised on these boards.  This has been my observation as well.  In fact, I've seen it to such an extent that the other posters (though they mean well, Im sure) actually take it upon themselves to advise the OP that she should be "more respectful", "Not lash out", and things of that nature, when no reference was ever even made by the OP that she had been disrespectful, or mouthy.  It's quite amazing how the human mind can read something like  "I had a communication problem with my dominant last night and now he cut me off for the weekend, as punishment" and spin it into "I was mouthy and disrespectful to my dominant, therefore he is punishing me for a couple of days".  Amazing.  I guess this is where KnightOfMists recent thread could apply as far as common misinterpretation.  Personally, I think any time there is an inference of "punshisment" in the situation, passersby just assume that the submissive did wrong, without bothering to ask about the facts or the 'how' and the 'why'.   Interesting topic.

< Message edited by marieToo -- 10/29/2006 7:12:42 AM >

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to trannysub007)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 7:18:58 AM   
Aine


Posts: 820
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline 		What I took from this wasn't an outcry against those that post things that they did, knowing they were wrong and just did it for the hell of it, then complain that they're going to get punished.

I took it as a reference to the subs that are put in those totally unfair situations where the sub felt that they were unable to do whatever it was that they were supposed to do, ie: set up for failure of one kind or another.  Or a situation that any normal person with any kind of average common sense would have spoken up to said partner and discussed the situation, but felt like they couldn't because of the pressure pushed upon them by said Dominant.

Unreasonable Dominants and unreasonable requests/demands.  It's an unfortunate fact of life for some people in their relationships.  And even then...I partly agree with imtempting (if I'm correct in my interpretation of the post) that a lot of the time, people "side" with the Dominant in some ways because they flame the sub for not speaking up for themselves or politely questioning their Dominant.  Rather than building up the sub to give them the proper confidence to feel that they -can- speak up with concerns to their Dominants.  Many of those people might very well be with Dominants that are squashing their sub's confidence and common sense, scaring them into doing whatever it is that they want them to do, putting fear into them for questioning "authority".


_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to windchymes)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 7:24:56 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I tend to think there are just as many jump-to-conlusions posts that say "OMG your dom(me) is an asshole and you need to walk."  It works both ways.  As Marie said, people don't have the full story, they fill in their own gaps (I think people tend to fill the gaps in with their own experiences), and make judgments on this false information.

Then again, I probably see as many posts that say "We need more information to help you." 

I don't think the scales are tipped in any one direction.

(in reply to Aine)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 7:34:23 AM   
Aine


Posts: 820
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline 		Oh, I completely agree that there are those posts too.  And many of them, in fact.  I'm just letting out my take on the specific ones the OP was pointing out.  I don't think he was saying that there aren't the other types of responses, just omitted them for the sake of staying on one topic.  *shrugs*  That's how I read it.

_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 8:11:19 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		FR,

My own approach is not one of blaming people but of trying to be helpful to whomever posts about a problem they are having. Blaming and shaming rarely work to improve a relationship. It is not that I think that the dominant is "right", but if the person asking how to fix the relationship is a sub I try to give advise that will help them think about their part in what is wrong, and I so the same if it is a dominant asking.

There have been times I felt both sides were way off when they asked advice, and I have posted accordingly... but I try not to blame anyone because it is not helpful

What I have noticed is a lot of people telling others to dump someone out of hand, which I try not to do. I have seen people who have posted for advice and had their dominant trashed too.

It is only a message board, it is a place to exchange ideas, take what you need and leave the rest because "herding cats" applies here... people are going to post what they are going to post within the terms of service... and not everyone will agree

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Aine)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 8:12:19 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		 
quote:


I've seen this lots on these boards aswell as others that a sub ( male or female ) will usaully say 'I did this or I did that' now my dom or domme is upset with me.

Everyone immediatly sides with the dominate partner saying well you should treat him with more respect. You should ask him this or that. etc etc


I don't think "everyone immediately" sides with the dominant partner.  It does happen, yes, but not by everyone. I was pointing out that it happens in all directions and people should probably stop filling in their own gaps in those cases when they don't have all the info, in all those cases.  The OP was talking about submissive's posts where everyone jumps on the sub saying it's the sub's fault.  I'm saying that isn't necessarily the case.  Just as many people jump on the Dom, saying it's the Dom's fault.

(in reply to Aine)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 8:32:04 AM   
kc692


Posts: 3701
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting

I will get you some examples when I return later tonight.

I am not trying to raise the roof. Just clear the path for alot of people. There are lots of people out there that their defination of a collar wil be vastly different to you.

These are the same ones that disrespect their subs and it is those subs this is pointed at.

Oh don't worry. I got some more threads planned. It should actually make you happy the other threads. It will actually help you for the time being. Since im attracting so much attention at the moment I can help get things in the air and openly discussed about.


You are correct, there are a lot of people whose definition of a collar varies from mine, as I might point out the same to you.  That is why sweeping generalizations rarely work.  Generalizations tend to be intentionally incendiary and in my opinion do not conribute much of value to some conversations, because they are NOT specific.

As far as making me happy, or helping me, no offense, but no post or poster in here provides that particular service for me, nor do I desire them to.  This is a pleasant way to spend time, and take a respite from daily activities and AT TIMES provoke internal thoughts on my views.  It is always educational to see others, even if for no other reason than to give me what I perceive as insights as to the others on the boards.  I have also changed my mind at times.  Please do not think that you need to perpetuate any postings for my happiness or help, however, because in that you would not be successful as it matters not either way to me.

I do hope you find something to make you happy in life though.  I cannot imagine how difficult and tiring it must be to have all this animosity bottled up.

_____________________________

Anyone can overpower; not many can INSPIRE.....

This is only MY opinion. If it's not yours, let's agree in advance to agree to disagree, OR, you can just get the fuck over what I had to say:)

(in reply to imtempting)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 9:42:19 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Its perfectly possible for a sub/slave to end a relationship in moments too, in those circumstances.

Few people in committed relationships of any kind end them in *seconds*. There's usually a build-up, a background and a history that leads to that point.

Frankly, if a sub/slave posts here about a supposed *wrong-doing* and subsequent upset, they have opened themselves to receiving the thoughts and opinions of an awful lot of people who will have their own *bias*.

They'll get thoughts from reasonable people, rational people, arse-holes, idiots, openminded people, people with empathy, spiteful people, blunt people, small-minded people and everything in between.

Best be prepared.

agirl

(in reply to imtempting)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 11:23:31 AM   
Mistrix


Posts: 186
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline 		There are no bad dogs, just bad owners.....


_____________________________

I am a Woman, above everything else.

One is too many and a thousand is never enough.

(in reply to imtempting)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 11:49:00 AM   
ImpGrrl


Posts: 575
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistrix

There are no bad dogs, just bad owners.....



But slaves aren't dogs, nor do we come as blank slates to be trained and molded into perfection.

We're human.  Just like owners.

And we have the same personal responsibilities. 

(in reply to Mistrix)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Its not always the subs fault - 10/29/2006 12:19:52 PM   
imtempting


Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceaniato Message

Hmmmm... who posted the word "fool"? I did not see that in her post, that is your interpretation. My teenager does that, I say one thing and he interprets my words to mean something I did not say.

She never said anyone was a fool, she disagreed with your opinion... it is allowed you know


ah yes but many people did agree with me

quote:

justheather
...Just about the only statement in the OP with which I agree.
Yes, imtempting, this thinking that broad-sweeping statements with little or no basis in fact make good posts should end.

So she thought my comments had no basis. So she thought  it was foolish? or idiotic? or pointless? Either way, people are still agreeing with myself.

( well im off to work and stuff. Can't reply to anything till tonight. )

< Message edited by imtempting -- 10/29/2006 12:20:39 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 40
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