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RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/24/2006 6:32:06 AM

emdoub

Posts: 223
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Minnenipples, Minnesnowta
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradoxy

Well, thanks for confirming what I already knew.

Instincts I can trust. My own judgement? Hardly.

Speaking of red flags....

Man - you need to start exercising that judgement, making it your friend, and learn to trust it. So much of what happens in BDSM depends on it....

_____________________________

Benevolent Dictator of TIES - Tremendously Intense Erotic Situations. If you're local to Mpls-St.Paul, MN, you may want to check us out. The web site is at http://www.ties-bdsm.org and the Munches are monthly.

(in reply to Paradoxy)

Post #: 21

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/24/2006 6:35:28 AM

Paradoxy

Posts: 51
Joined: 10/23/2006
Status: offline

I forget people can't read tones...

That last one was me being a little smartass SOB. Sorry about the confusion.

(in reply to emdoub)

Post #: 22

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/24/2006 6:52:05 AM

Caitriona

Posts: 327
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline

Listen to your gut. I'm a believer that if it leaves me feeling unsettled, kinda...*nose wrinkle* then it's not for me. Since you're fairly new, I'd start with smaller steps than undertaking someone with those issues. Best of luck to you.

_____________________________

Property of Shadowraven
Serving alongside ciarra

(in reply to onestandingstill)

Post #: 23

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/24/2006 7:38:27 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressWolfen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
Maybe loading the shotgun, or frothing at the mouth?

ahhhhh good ole northern foreplay *smiles whilst fondly recalling past exploits* and wipes froth from corners of mouth

No offense to anybody from Arkansas, but I heard a joke once...

"If a husband and wife get a divorce in Arkansas, are they still brother and sister?"

Not sure what that means, but there you go.

I guess I agree with the poster who pointed out that if you have a bad gut feeling about this, perhaps it is time to move on.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to MistressWolfen)

Post #: 24

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/24/2006 8:01:06 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

This isn't a "red flag" situation because to me, red flag means dangerous.

This is however a situation that seems well beyond your abilities and someone who needs a lot of help- that you can't give her.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 25

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/24/2006 8:54:00 AM

WickedlyDevine

Posts: 63
Joined: 10/17/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Silvermoon

Dude run like hell's hounds are on your heels!

For future reference if you have to ask this question THAT IS THE RED FLAG!

I couldn't have put that one better myself!

(in reply to Silvermoon)

Post #: 26

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/24/2006 11:21:12 AM

Daddysredhead

Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedlyDevine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Silvermoon

Dude run like hell's hounds are on your heels!

For future reference if you have to ask this question THAT IS THE RED FLAG!

I couldn't have put that one better myself!

I'd like to make this a third... *insert squick-factor here*

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut

(in reply to WickedlyDevine)

Post #: 27

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/24/2006 12:03:33 PM

PoeticPrincess

Posts: 49
Joined: 10/21/2006
Status: offline

In the vein of people getting off on 'reliving' their sexual abuse. Sorry. In my experience this does not happen. Women who have been sexually abused as children can be promiscuous as adults. That is part of their lack of self-esteem: they crave affection and warmth and sadly they only get that from men/women with the 'bonus' of sex. I agree with an earlier correspondent that anyone who has fantasies about abuse has probably never suffered it. They idealise the scene, and it is normal to do so if you were not abused, of being taken but remaining pure, the play-rape scenario. The truth is rape is violence, non-consensual violence and one is as likely to enjoy reliving it about as much as one would enjoy reliving a mugging or knife attack.

(in reply to onestandingstill)

Post #: 28

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/24/2006 12:30:36 PM

Paradoxy

Posts: 51
Joined: 10/23/2006
Status: offline

Oh, I completely agree with you on those points. It's not like I'm not already aware of such things...it helps me to hear it from someone else.

Allows you to get outside of your head, yeah?

(in reply to PoeticPrincess)

Post #: 29

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/24/2006 4:18:38 PM

charismagirrl

Posts: 297
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline

LOVE LOVE LOVE the Fight Club referrence YAYYYY! just had to say it!

Your girl does sound like she may have some issues, but also check out the other thread regarding fantsay and abuse (you probably already have).

_____________________________

For today i won't say but...
For today i wont say just...
For today i will simply obey....
For today i will trust that You are right...
For always i will be your imperfect slave

http://www.mycollarspace.com

(in reply to onestandingstill)

Post #: 30

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/26/2006 12:11:06 PM

onestandingstill

Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PoeticPrincess

In the vein of people getting off on 'reliving' their sexual abuse. Sorry. In my experience this does not happen. Women who have been sexually abused as children can be promiscuous as adults. That is part of their lack of self-esteem: they crave affection and warmth and sadly they only get that from men/women with the 'bonus' of sex. I agree with an earlier correspondent that anyone who has fantasies about abuse has probably never suffered it. They idealize the scene, and it is normal to do so if you were not abused, of being taken but remaining pure, the play-rape scenario. The truth is rape is violence, non-consensual violence and one is as likely to enjoy reliving it about as much as one would enjoy reliving a mugging or knife attack.

Hi Poetic Princess,
Actually I was molested by my Dad from 12-16 and raped at 7 months pregnant with my daughter. at knife point.
I am not necessarily overly promiscuous and am not very impulsive in my sexual encounters as far as participant selections.
If anything I feel like I turn too many fun opportunities away due to not wanting to risk my health and potentially get STD's.
I do seem to move pretty fast in a relationship once I give into the full contact of it though.
I indeed think rape play and Daddy Dom sex is very very hot for me.
Lot's of my fantasy time is in forced sexual or kidnapping and bondage thoughts.
I also think my self esteem is pretty secure and healthy.
Maybe I don't fit the common mold, but most of the ladies I know that were raped and molested also are not afraid of rape or Daddy role play.

I do see what you mention above happening too, but I think it's more of a 50% are not OK and 50% are.
I think it depends on if you've come to grips with the abuse enough to forgive the abuser and recognize it's his fault and actions that did this to you and you've got nothing to be ashamed or feel guilty about.

Sincerely,
suzanne

(in reply to PoeticPrincess)

Post #: 31

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/26/2006 5:06:59 PM

Fawne

Posts: 462
Status: offline

Hello,

Thats sounds like a touchy situation.
It may be a good idea to be sure and know her very well before playing in that area if she thinks she wants to relive actual experience.

Having no personal experience with this,
I do think it may bring up/ out powerful feelings. This may not be a good idea...

?
Or it could be a very freeing for her?
Or it may be plain hot.

Please be sure you are both comfortable.
just my opinion.
fawne

(in reply to onestandingstill)

Post #: 32

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/26/2006 6:37:58 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradoxy

Oh, I completely agree with you on those points. It's not like I'm not already aware of such things...it helps me to hear it from someone else.

Allows you to get outside of your head, yeah?

Hello Paradoxy,

I have to agree with the people who posted that you probably want to trust your gut instinct on this.

I deal with many abuse / incest / rape survivors professionally. While I tend to feel that most of them had a part of their soul torn away, and seek endlessly trying to get it back, my classes dont really deal with that. That is for her to deal with in her own way.

However, what I would caution you about concerns disassociative mental disorders. Unless you are trained in crisis management in dealing with these sorts of things, you might be opening up a can of worms involving yourself in it that you are neither ready nor trained to deal with.

If you are a rookie, do you want to learn about WIITWD by dealing with a submissive telling you in a man's voice to leave that poor child alone, dealing with somebody who has a PTSD meltdown which doesnt ever end and you get blamed for it, or dealing with a submissive who completely disassociates and has to be hauled off by paramedics for some "me-time" involving a rubber room and a thorazine drip?

Tread lightly, this one may bite you.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Paradoxy)

Post #: 33

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/26/2006 7:01:53 PM

ZenrageTheKeeper

Posts: 237
Joined: 6/26/2005
Status: offline

As their definitions are wholly dependent on the individual philosophy, there is no such thing as objective good or objective evil.

Your limits are your own to find and define. As for me, I like to ask the question "Would participating in this activity get me killed in prison later on?"

_____________________________

If Men never thought with their penises, all you girls would still have cooties.

(in reply to Paradoxy)

Post #: 34

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/26/2006 7:07:53 PM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

Aloha Paradoxy

I am Jack's annoying voice of compassion and tolerance.

When some one begins to come to terms with being abused it is a very scary thing. There is a lot of denial ("getting closer") because you dont want to admit that the person who makes up 1/2 your DNA is a monster, and there is a period of questioning ("why did you not sleep with your sister?"). Because you are seeking to find a way to understand and heal a very deep and confusing wound.

She wants to explore this huge event in her life, in baby steps, and in her own way.

You could make the decision she is damaged goods and run away, sure that is always an option, but you could also make the decision to be something she might desperately need in her life right now,.... a healthy friend, and a compassionate steward.

I would bet she could use some one like you to gently take her by the hand and explain some things to her, in a safe loving way. She might value your advice so much that she could find it with in herself to face the fear of admitting this very painful, shameful thing to a professional, and work through her guilt, pain, fear, confusion, and sorrow.

If you like this girl, fuck what this board says and listen to your heart.

And also because you are new i will leave you with these thoughts:

        1 out of 2 women have been sexually abused in some way ( and that is only the ones that have reported it) so chances are you will be lonly if you decide that this is a deal breaker.

          i personally have not met any one in this life or lifestyle that does not have some sort of baggage

          there are turning points in peoples lives, cross roads if you will, where they can look back and say that one persons compassion and understanding  changed them forever.

        the people on these boards for the most part are fucked up (myself included) and should not be considered council when making a decision of who you are life partnering with.

        and BDSM lifestyle is not very different then vanilla, (except maybe better clothes), you are still responsible for your own self and all the skills you have amassed in your life that you use to assess a persons character are just as valuable if not more so, in the leather life.

sorry i was harsh....i can be a little pissy i know, but it would be sad to see you abandon this girl just because a bunch of lap top kink-shrinks said to.

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 35

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/26/2006 7:15:33 PM

charismagirrl

Posts: 297
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PoeticPrincess

In the vein of people getting off on 'reliving' their sexual abuse. Sorry. In my experience this does not happen. Women who have been sexually abused as children can be promiscuous as adults. That is part of their lack of self-esteem: they crave affection and warmth and sadly they only get that from men/women with the 'bonus' of sex. I agree with an earlier correspondent that anyone who has fantasies about abuse has probably never suffered it. They idealise the scene, and it is normal to do so if you were not abused, of being taken but remaining pure, the play-rape scenario. The truth is rape is violence, non-consensual violence and one is as likely to enjoy reliving it about as much as one would enjoy reliving a mugging or knife attack.

i just wanted to add myself to the list with onestandingstill. i AM a woman who has survived ALOT of abuse, physical/mental/sexual that began when i was very small and continued until i was in my early 20s (in one shape or form) and i have a Daddy/Master and i also have big time rape/kidnapping and even ageplay fantasies. Do i have some self esteem issues? Yes. Am i fractured inside due to the things i experienced without my control or consent? Yes. Does this make what i do within the confines of my relationship weird or wrong? NO.

As Sinergy said (not quoting but the gist), it takes someone who is strong and knowledgeable about these things to help one with issues like mine. But, it can be and has been a very theraputic thing for me personally. In living out some of these fantasies i can actually put them to rest and take their power from them. i put the power in my Daddy's hands and so no longer are things being done without my consent. It's very cleansing if you have the proper mindset and are mature enough to really let it help heal. Of course, having a strong, loving and intelligent Master makes it possible.

Just wanted to throw in my perspective

_____________________________

For today i won't say but...
For today i wont say just...
For today i will simply obey....
For today i will trust that You are right...
For always i will be your imperfect slave

http://www.mycollarspace.com

(in reply to PoeticPrincess)

Post #: 36

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/26/2006 8:03:38 PM

EvilGeoff

Posts: 523
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradoxy
She refers to when her father started molesting her at the age of 14 as "getting closer" with her father, asked me why I never slept with my own sister, and...other...things.

Universal red flag? Noooo... specific red flag? Well, yeah! To quote Carlos Mencia: Deee-de-deeeeeee!

Duuuuuude... unless you are a trained professional counsellor equipped to deal with serious emotional, sexual, and perhaps physical abuse issues, or you are willing to pay for this one to see one, I suggest you back away slowly, keep your eyes level and alert, and for Pete's sake, don't bare your teeth!

YIK,
- Geoff

< Message edited by EvilGeoff -- 10/26/2006 8:04:22 PM >

(in reply to Paradoxy)

Post #: 37

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/26/2006 8:17:44 PM

subinktown

Posts: 17
Joined: 10/23/2006
Status: offline

I dunno how to add a quote to my post, but I gotta say the Carlos Mencia reference was awesome!! (Not to mention appropriate.)

I'm gonna have to follow the crowd here and just say listen to your gut......and your common sense-meter.

Good luck!

_____________________________

"Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option"

(in reply to EvilGeoff)

Post #: 38

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/27/2006 9:23:11 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

sorry i was harsh....i can be a little pissy i know, but it would be sad to see you abandon this girl just because a bunch of lap top kink-shrinks said to.

Just to clarify, I never told anybody to do anything. I simply recommended being cautious.

I have done what I do and reduced a number of women to sobbing, incoherent, disassociated emotional wrecks based on their past trauma.

While the outcome was positive for the students (due to the female instructers training and skill in dealing with it) I went home with the image of the woman in a fetal position, speaking in a man's voice, or whatever burned in my brain and it never leaves me to this day.

If this qualifies me as a nay-saying laptop psychologist in your mind, so be it.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 39

RE: I am Jack's Rookie Questions - 10/27/2006 11:00:29 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress
I would bet she could use some one like you to gently take her by the hand and explain some things to her, in a safe loving way. She might value your advice so much that she could find it with in herself to face the fear of admitting this very painful, shameful thing to a professional, and work through her guilt, pain, fear, confusion, and sorrow.

I don't think he should flee in fear- but I also think he has no training or background which would make him suitable to help deal with the issues this girl has. I'd prefer someone be honest enough to say that rather than try and play hero.

Yes, this girl needs help and guidance- I don't think the OP is the one for that job.

quote:

1 out of 2 women have been sexually abused in some way ( and that is only the ones that have reported it) so chances are you will be lonly if you decide that this is a deal breaker.

I want to know where THAT stat came from.

quote:

sorry i was harsh....i can be a little pissy i know, but it would be sad to see you abandon this girl just because a bunch of lap top kink-shrinks said to.

And I think it would be even worse for him to get involved with something he has no way to handle and end up with an even bigger mess.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 40

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