RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread

Page: << < prev 284 285 [286] 287 288 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 2:10:46 PM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

I'm a bit down this evening ... no sign of my towel yet :(

This means I'm going to be (hopefully!) watching a playoff game with my backup towel.

If the Steelers don't make it, will it be my towel's fault?

If they do, dare I then introduce the official towel for the first time at the Superbowl, even though it wasn't there for the Championship game?

I guess my question is, are American Football fans as superstitious as British soccer/football fans? :)

Do you have any specific superstitions? Things you have to do, or not do, before, or during a game?

I'd be interested to know :)

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 5701

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 6:39:22 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Well, what I meant by "win" is "win a Super Bowl." Yes, obviously they can win with Flacco because they won 12 games this season. So that's not what I meant.

And your last point is what I was getting at. It's really, really hard to win a Super Bowl without a Hall-of-Fame quarterback. (Pop quiz: Anyone know how many Hall-of-Fame QB's never won a championship? Surprisingly few.) It has happened, and it can happen, but it's very hard, and it has usually been on teams that were spectacular in every other area.

Look at the QB's to win Super Bowls over the last two decades:

Drew Brees (surefire HOF-er)
Ben Roethlisberger (surefire HOF-er)
Eli Manning (the exception, I still can't believe that team won the SB)
Peyton Manning (surefire HOF-er)
Tom Brady (surefire HOF-er)
Brad Johnson (team was spectacular)
Trent Dilfer (team was spectacular)
Kurt Warner (surefire HOF-er)
John Elway (surefire HOF-er)
Brett Favre (surefire HOF-er)
Troy Aikman (surefire HOF-er)
Steve Young (surefore HOF-er)
Mark Rypien (team was spectacular)

I think you get the point. I don't know that the rest of the Ravens are ever going to be better than they are right now, and I don't see Flacco becoming the next Steve Young. Obviously the Jets are facing the same problem. The QB position alone gives the Steelers and Packers huge advantages.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

I'm starting to wonder whether the Ravens can win with Flacco.

The answer to that question is unequivocally YES. The team has made the final eight in all three of his seasons.

This year he was the #7 rated QB (.93), #11 in yards (3600), in the top 10 in least INTs (10), and #10 in TDs (25) and completion pct (62.6). Keep in mind he's not quarterbacking a team set up to pass the ball like the Charges, Saints, Colts, and Eagles. Also, it was BAL's running game which had let down in 2010, not the passing game. (The passing game stayed at a comparable level to 2009.)

After the six (6) "elite" QBs: Rivers, Manning, Roethelsberger, Rogers, Brady, and Brees -- Flacco compares rather favorably to anyone else you could name.

I would comfortably rate Vick ahead of Flacco, but I would not give a strong nod to anyone else.

The better question is, will Flacco ever lead BAL to a Super Bowl Championship? All the recent SBs have gone to great QBs: Brady (3), Manning (1), Brees (1), Roethelsberger (2). Eli Manning is the lone exception, and his trophy was more powered by the NYG defense. Flacco is definitely more in the mold of Eli Manning than the others.

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 5702

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 7:31:41 PM

flcouple2009

Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline

There you have it, LAM himself has just removed the Jets chances of winning a Super Bowl.

I don't think anyone would argue Sanchez as a Hall of Fame Quarterback.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 5703

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 7:45:40 PM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
(Pop quiz: Anyone know how many Hall-of-Fame QB's never won a championship? Surprisingly few.)

Marino? That's the only one I can name without google help.

But I'm not good on NFL history, so please feel free to enlighten me.

ETA: What are the HoF entrance criteria? More than one SB appearance on a winning side? I confess I don't know, sorry.

< Message edited by RapierFugue -- 1/22/2011 7:48:10 PM >

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 5704

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 8:58:08 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

I am not superstitious. I tend to be more influenced by weighted advantages, namely the favorites will win unless the upstarts get lucky. I also think the home team has advantages coming from both the crowd and the officials.

(in reply to RapierFugue)

Post #: 5705

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 9:02:31 PM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I am not superstitious.

Interesting ... in the UK, and indeed Europe, you'll go a long way before you find more superstitious people than footie fans or players.

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 5706

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 9:11:27 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Drew Brees (surefire HOF-er)
Ben Roethlisberger (surefire HOF-er)
Eli Manning (the exception, I still can't believe that team won the SB)
Peyton Manning (surefire HOF-er)
Tom Brady (surefire HOF-er)
Brad Johnson (team was spectacular)
Trent Dilfer (team was spectacular)
Kurt Warner (surefire HOF-er)
John Elway (surefire HOF-er)
Brett Favre (surefire HOF-er)
Troy Aikman (surefire HOF-er)
Steve Young (surefore HOF-er)
Mark Rypien (team was spectacular)

Even a HOF QB needs a team, as no one on that list played for the little sisters of the poor. Roethlisberger didn't exactly lead the Steelers to a SB victory his first time in action. Elway needed a running game.

Still, the point is valid -- the QB is the X-factor of excellence. Look at what Kurt Warner did for the Cardinals? He put them in a position to win a SB.

The NYG, BAL, and TB -- those were teams that could neutralize an opponent's offense and QB. The same could be said for the 85 Bears.

BAL had the most lopsided SB victory of the decade.

-----

It would not surprise me if BAL never got over the hump with Flacco, but when you are in the mix year-after-year, anything can happen. As a fan, I am very happy for "in-the-mix," for the flip side of the equation is the ORIOLES. (UGH!)

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 5707

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 9:23:37 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

I SAID that the Jets are facing the same problem. I also said it can be done--it's just very hard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

There you have it, LAM himself has just removed the Jets chances of winning a Super Bowl.

I don't think anyone would argue Sanchez as a Hall of Fame Quarterback.

(in reply to flcouple2009)

Post #: 5708

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 9:51:38 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Excellent. Yes, Marino is the obvious one. (And he was always overrated.) The others:

Dan Fouts
Sonny Jurgensen
Jim Kelly (famously played in four straight Super Bowls, but lost'em all)
Ace Parker (God only knows why this guy is in the HOF)
Fran Tarkenton (played in three Super Bowls and lost'em all)
Y.A. Tittle (played in three straight championship games with the Giants, but lost'em all to Lombardi's Packers)

There are 30 quarterbacks in the Hall of Fame, and, as you can see, all but 7 of them won championships. Only Fouts and Jurgensen never came close.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
(Pop quiz: Anyone know how many Hall-of-Fame QB's never won a championship? Surprisingly few.)

Marino? That's the only one I can name without google help.

But I'm not good on NFL history, so please feel free to enlighten me.

ETA: What are the HoF entrance criteria? More than one SB appearance on a winning side? I confess I don't know, sorry.

(in reply to RapierFugue)

Post #: 5709

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 9:51:44 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
(Pop quiz: Anyone know how many Hall-of-Fame QB's never won a championship? Surprisingly few.)

Marino? That's the only one I can name without google help.

But I'm not good on NFL history, so please feel free to enlighten me.

ETA: What are the HoF entrance criteria? More than one SB appearance on a winning side? I confess I don't know, sorry.

Entirely arbitrary. Players are nominated by fans and voted in by a committee composed mainly of sportswriters from NFL cities, and there is no defined set of criteria for selection. Only 4 or 5 players are selected each year (I think the maximum is 7, but there usually aren't that many selected), so the competition is stiff. Given how many hundreds of noteworthy ex-players there are from which to choose, a candidate has to have a very impressive body of work indeed to elevate himself above the others, and any quarterback who doesn't have at least one championship on his resume had better have a lot of other truly remarkable accomplishments to set him apart. For quarterbacks - unlike any other position - the gold standard for excellence is a demonstrated ability to lead your team to a championship.

However, having said that, I can think of at least 4 quarterbacks who were elected in the last 15 or 20 years who never won a ring - Marino, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, and Dan Fouts. So it does happen. It's just a lot harder for a quarterback than it is for any other position.

< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 1/22/2011 9:52:40 PM >

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to RapierFugue)

Post #: 5710

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 9:55:54 PM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Excellent. Yes, Marino is the obvious one. (And he was always overrated.)

Well yes. And no.

While not a Dolphins fan at all, I'd have to say that, in the period Dan played for them, the average quality of the rest of the team wasn't up to his standard. They had a few stand-outs over his years, but people miss that your average has to be at least "7/10" if you’re going to win consistently, and I don't think theirs was.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 5711

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 10:03:25 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Moon won five straight Grey Cups. That's a championship in my book.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

However, having said that, I can think of at least 4 quarterbacks who were elected in the last 15 or 20 years who never won a ring - Marino, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, and Dan Fouts. So it does happen. It's just a lot harder for a quarterback than it is for any other position.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 5712

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 10:04:41 PM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Entirely arbitrary. Players are nominated by fans and voted in by a committee composed mainly of sportswriters from NFL cities, and there is no defined set of criteria for selection. Only 4 or 5 players are selected each year (I think the maximum is 7, but there usually aren't that many selected), so the competition is stiff. Given how many hundreds of noteworthy ex-players there are from which to choose, a candidate has to have a very impressive body of work indeed to elevate himself above the others, and any quarterback who doesn't have at least one championship on his resume had better have a lot of other truly remarkable accomplishments to set him apart. For quarterbacks - unlike any other position - the gold standard for excellence is a demonstrated ability to lead your team to a championship.

Smashing summary, as always.

Cheers Panda.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
However, having said that, I can think of at least 4 quarterbacks who were elected in the last 15 or 20 years who never won a ring - Marino, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, and Dan Fouts. So it does happen. It's just a lot harder for a quarterback than it is for any other position.

Someone's missed something, coz Moon's not on LAM's list.

2 men say they're Jesus, one of em must be wrong :)

Interestingly (for fairly modest values of "interesting"), I really liked watching both Moon and Kelly play. Kelly especially, if it's who I'm thinking of; Bills QB, play called himself often, lived like a hunted animal behind a line that couldn’t stop a blitz, or indeed a pig in a passageway? He was quality.

Or I’m thinking of the wrong bloke :)

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 5713

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 10:06:03 PM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Moon won five straight Grey Cups. That's a championship in my book.

Sorry, could you explain that phrasing please?

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 5714

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 10:09:13 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Warren Moon had a whole career in the Canadian Football League before he joined the NFL. There he won five straight CFL championships, which are called Grey Cups.

(in reply to RapierFugue)

Post #: 5715

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 10:13:50 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Moon won five straight Grey Cups. That's a championship in my book.

Sorry, could you explain that phrasing please?

The Grey Cup is the championship trophy in the Canadian Football League, in which Moon played and dominated for many years before the NFL finally broke down and admitted that it had a place after all for this - gasp! - black quarterback!!!!

But he never won an NFL championship, which was what you asked in your original question about Super Bowl victories. That was the context in which I replied to your post.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to RapierFugue)

Post #: 5716

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 10:16:20 PM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Warren Moon had a whole career in the Canadian Football League before he joined the NFL. There he won five straight CFL championships, which are called Grey Cups.

Canada? You're equating winning in Canada with winning the Superbowl?

Fuck. I'm only a Brit and I know that's crazy.

I don't want to live in a world where it isn't crazy.

PS: Cheers for the Grey Cup thing, I never knew that*

*although, as it’s Football we’re talking about, and it’s Canada you’re talking about, I think I can be excused, eh? ;)

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 5717

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 10:19:54 PM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

But he never won an NFL championship, which was what you asked in your original question about Super Bowl victories. That was the context in which I replied to your post.

Yes, cheers again ... but surely "Championship" means Superbowl? I mean it's American Football, it's the NFL or nothing.

Most Brits rightly laugh at things like that mickey-mouse European league the NFL tried to set up over here, because, to us, and I would think to every right-thinking football fan, it's NFL or it's bogus, surely?

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 5718

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 10:22:50 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Guys, come on. Even the Pro Football Hall of Fame considers Moon's CFL experience part of his legacy, as it's the very first thing they mention in their blurb about him (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.aspx?PlayerId=256). But anyway take away Moon if you want; it amounts to a difference between 7 out of 30 and 8 out of 30. The point remains that the vast majority of championship teams have Hall-of-Fame quarterbacks, and the vast majority of Hall-of-Fame quarterbacks win championships.

(in reply to RapierFugue)

Post #: 5719

RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 1/22/2011 10:29:25 PM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
But anyway take away Moon if you want

I want :)

It's like me being a pro boxer and having 30 fights and 30 KOs ... if they're all against midgets*, how much respect do I get? Fuck all, that's how much.

It's the NFL or it's buttons. It's what puts the Super in Superbowl.

*substitute “small persons” or “persons of restricted verticality” here if it offends you, by all means

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 5720

Page: << < prev 284 285 [286] 287 288 next > >>

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread

Page: << < prev 284 285 [286] 287 288 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.141