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Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/18/2006 9:16:01 AM   
machinegunBANG


Posts: 20
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: 707
Status: offline 		This has been a process.

i have been interested in BDSM, specifically D/s, since my adolescent years and have pursued this interest through communication with O/others that share the same interests as well as reading many online resources and being actively involved in online communities. Unfortunately i have yet to be involved in a true D/s relationship although this is not only a desire, but a deep internal need to serve that i feel within myself. My husband and i have "played" with some BDSM dynamics off and on during our marriage, but only within the last two years during which i have been discovering how serious my yearning to be submissive is has it become an every-day topic for discussion between us. Previously we had been practicing switch roles, with him always prefering to be the submissive. i was never satisfied in this situation and found myself more actively trying to please him by being dominants rather than gaining any satisfaction out of the dominate position itself. Eventually this switching ceased as i had to be very clear that it was not something that i felt comfortable, happy, or satisfied in doing.

In the past two months my husband has been studying D/s dynamics much more seriously because of my own interest in the subject and claims that he has discovered an internal 'Domliness' that he wasn't aware of before. After weeks of serious discussions concerning not only our own relationship , but also D/s relationship dynamics and how we'd both enjoy implementing these into our relationship we had decided that it would be beneficial for us to enter a contract together with him as my Master.

After stipulation of the contract as well as the signing i have tried to take my role as his submissive very seriously but find him offering a lack of direction. This was one concern that i had presented to him before entering the contract and felt was an issue that had been discussed and dealt with, but obviously had not. i have concerns that his position as a novice, combined with my own, will cause a failure in proper training and may have negative impacts on our relationship together.

Am i a poor submissive for feeling a need for direction from my Master or asking for that direction?

As a submissive, is there anything that i can do in order to elicit a more 'Domly' approach and response from my Master so that he may gain greater joy in having me serve him?
my own frustrations are growing and any advice would be appreciated. Thank Y/you for your patience and for taking the time to read this.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/18/2006 9:24:43 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Reposted:
One thing, other than the obvious talk about this with him, is to focus more on "what can I do with this energy to make his life easier?"  It's easy to get into the pattern to sit around like an eager puppy just ready to leap for the next scene or order to be given- but try getting into a pattern of being busy and actively seeking ways to do things together.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_485338/mpage_1/key_eager%252Cpuppy/tm.htm#485816
A vaguely confusing question

I'd suggest these threads:
http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=411305&mpage=1&key=eager%2Cpuppy&#411339
Not much of a dom

http://www.collarchat.com/m_321594/mpage_1/key_eager%252Cpuppy/tm.htm#321737
Master doesn't want to play

http://www.collarchat.com/m_269547/mpage_1/key_eager%252Cpuppy/tm.htm#269558
He's a switch, I'm a sub, help!

_____________________________

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(in reply to machinegunBANG)
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RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/18/2006 9:29:43 AM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline 		One thing that i have found worked for those i know in your situation was if you feel submissive, during those moments, demonstrate this to your husband.  For example, iIf you feel to kneel, then just do it.  If you feel to serve, then serve.  Go as the spirit moves you.  Don;t expect too much in the beginning as this is a critical time of growth, discovery and developement for the both of you.  Take mental notes of his reactions or responses, but say nothing at the time, be patient.  Perhaps journaling as to the effect his response (or lack thereof) had upon you after each act of submission, then giving it to him to read in a quiet moment.  A newly emerging dominant needs time to get comfortable in his own skin.  If you rush this process, it may make the situaiton worse or backfire on the both of you.'
 
He needs time to discover just what about your submission helps to trigger his domly thoughts.  You need to become the best sub for yourself and express it freely, until he gains the confidence and understanding to take full control after a period of observation.  Different folks will respond to different approaches.  He needs to find his own and what will work for him. If it is in you, just let it flow.  Just a quick thought.

(in reply to machinegunBANG)
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RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/18/2006 9:48:07 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Reposted:
One thing, other than the obvious talk about this with him, is to focus more on "what can I do with this energy to make his life easier?"  It's easy to get into the pattern to sit around like an eager puppy just ready to leap for the next scene or order to be given- but try getting into a pattern of being busy and actively seeking ways to do things together.



Perhaps another way to say what LA has said is: Try being proactive, not reactive.

Look and see what needs to be done...there's always domestic chores to be done, right? Take it on yourself to get these things done. Don't just wait for the next order, then react. For me, constantly giving orders is a draining process and, after having to order things to be done over a long period of time, I get the impression that they really don't WANT to serve and this makes me simply stop asking.

Master Fire


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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/18/2006 9:48:13 AM   
PONYSEEKER


Posts: 364
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		I remember my first session.

"On your knees please!" ...... LOL
and I wont forget
"Thank you"
It was automatic and she had a weird look on her face after I said it ....LOL

Looking back on it... it was sweet.  It took me a while to proccess the fact that from one woman I could actually get whatever I wanted and be compleatly pleased and satisified wether it be animalistic urges to passionate lovemakeing.... If I want lets say Roast Beef for dinner I need to pick up the phone and say... Roast Beef for dinner... It actually created at first a strong sense of insecurity of the what if I am abusive or okay what if she refuses.  It just takes a while because speaking from experience you get all sorts of msgs. from everywhere on what you are suppose to do.  Very rarely does someone ask... well what do you want to do or what do you like or how do you feel odly enough. Find mutual friends that might be able to help.  Blogging can be incredible just be smart about it and do it on your home pc not public because then you create competition.  I can see where he might be really stressed and under a lot of presure especially if you talk about it every day and point out his failures.  It takes a while to develope a prospective on all of it ... he probably just needs time thats all.

(in reply to raiken)
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RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/18/2006 9:53:09 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

As a submissive, is there anything that i can do in order to elicit a more 'Domly' approach and response from my Master so that he may gain greater joy in having me serve him?
my own frustrations are growing and any advice would be appreciated. Thank Y/you for your patience and for taking the time to read this.

machinegun,
First, I trust you have shared these thought with him.

Don't think your "frustration" is unique. How does he feel? He's to be applauded in the attempt and congradulated if he has discovered a "Domly" part of his persona. However, remember people learn in a variety of ways. I don't believe it's possible to become an expert or even good at anything from book study. Would you get on a plane and consider yourself safe with someone whose expertise comes from 10 years of playing "Flight Simulator" on his computer? Maybe you should make contact with a local community, or visit a club. Perhaps you'll find someone or a couple willing to sit down and talk with you both.

One of the hardest parts of being an inexperienced Dom/Master is feeling that as the dominant partner you should know everything. It's a function of inexperience that a person doesn't have the confidence to disclose openly what they don't know and solicit assistance. His expectations of himself may be unrealistic with his current experience. When you look to him to "master" you, as much as his intentions and desires may be to do so, he may not have the skill set or confidence in the skills he has to meet your expectations. He may not be even meeting his.

If you can't get out and witness others interaction or aren't comfortable bringing others into the equation, keep communicating with each other. Give each other frequent feedback. If he isn't following up on the rules contained in your contract, maybe he doesn't remember them, maybe he's interpreting them different, or maybe he separates his protecting "husband" persona from his "Master" persona and can't reconcile the two conflicting emotions. All these feelings and conflicts need to be exposed and out in the open.

Don't be afraid to be "naked" emotionally.

Good luck!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/18/2006 10:04:25 AM   
Iskander


Posts: 264
Joined: 9/26/2006
Status: offline 		A good point brought up here is being pro-active...
There is lots of threads about 'what puts you in sub mode', but from what I've found so far very few 'what puts you in Dom(me) mode'...
Sometimes a D, (well me anyway) is quite content to just let things roll along, it isn't about constantly giving direction like in a game of 'Sims'...But something like a simple kneeling before me and asking if there is anything that could be done for me would make me realise some D/s attention is required and would put me into 'Dom-space' (waits for the flak) right away... Now this doesn't mean I'll drop what I'm doing right away, it's still my call what and when and if anything is to be done, but at least there is communication of needs...

Iskander...


(in reply to machinegunBANG)
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RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/18/2006 10:32:19 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

Eventually this switching ceased as i had to be very clear that it was not something that i felt comfortable, happy, or satisfied in doing.

 
Perhaps he feels the same way about playing 'Master' to your 'submissive'?   Also, and this may sound harsh, but it's not meant too, apologies in advance if it does, consider your own responsibility in setting the scene for the fairytale and how much of what you might want, desire, crave, need right now is unobtainable.  The pressure's on him to be a 'Master' ??  and he might be thinking when did the kinky sex stop being fun??   

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


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RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/18/2006 12:35:14 PM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

As a submissive, is there anything that i can do in order to elicit a more 'Domly' approach and response from my Master so that he may gain greater joy in having me serve him?

This sounds manipulative to me. You make it sound like the extra domliness is for his pleasure when it is clearly just for you. If he could increase his joy from domming you more then he would just do it; therefore making him do more would decrease his joy, not add to it.

I don't think you are being a bad submissive for wanting more direction or communicating that want; however, I do think you are being a bad submissive for concocting bogus reasons like those quoted above or claiming it "will cause a failure in proper training" in order to push him into giving you what you want. As a matter of fact, it looks to me like your claim of not enjoying the switching was false because it appears like you want to dom him here, but call it topping from the bottom if you prefer.

It is fine for you to communicate that you would like more direction, but after that is is up to him to decide whether doing so makes him happy or not and then you should accept his decision; that should be what makes you happy too.


_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to machinegunBANG)
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RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/19/2006 5:18:44 AM   
Dartantris


Posts: 18
Joined: 1/31/2006
Status: offline 		Being a Dom is a inherent quality of a man's personality and beliefs. These things may change during the course of one's life as they are exposed to new ideas and adopt them as part of thier own values. It's very difficult for someone to make this transformation on demand. You can "play act" being a Dom but it is difficult to sustain if it isn't in the persons nature. Perhaps a period of experimentation would cultivate this aspect of his personality - assuming it's there to be cultivated. However, it could be that you haven't found the key to unlocking his Dom tendencies. For me, it was very natural and was done with little thought or research. The two of you can define what a Dom/Sub relationship can be about. You don't need to follow any rules or guidelines. You only need to tune into each other and follow your instincts.

(in reply to happypervert)
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RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/19/2006 5:35:04 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Since he's new at this, a lot of positive feedback would help. So when you're unpacking groceries together, turning to him casually and saying "I really loved it when you did x yesterday. It just made me so hot" and then go back to the groceries and ask if he prefers potatoes or noodles for dinner.

By doing it casually, it takes the pressure off him to think of an appropriate response and gives him time to process the feedback.

However, since he seemed to prefer being a bedroom sub himself, are you sure he's happy in the top role or is he just playing at it to please you? I don't mean to flame you but the question is there.

(in reply to Dartantris)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/19/2006 7:29:58 AM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken

if you feel submissive, ...  demonstrate this...  if you feel to kneel, then just do it


I like this.  When I first began to learn what it was to be submissive to my Master, who is very experienced in this lifestyle, I sometimes didn't want to "wait" to see what He may ask me to do.  I wanted to be spontaneous and just act on my new feelings of submission.  So, there were times when I just dropped to my knees and smiled at Him.  He loved (and still loves) it.  It made me feel warm and fuzzy and let Him know that He was cherished by me. 

Don't be afraid to be "actively submissive" when the spirit moves you.  It's nice for your Master to know that he is being thought of and adored by you.

_____________________________

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Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

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(in reply to raiken)
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RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/19/2006 9:48:30 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

This sounds manipulative to me. You make it sound like the extra domliness is for his pleasure when it is clearly just for you. If he could increase his joy from domming you more then he would just do it; therefore making him do more would decrease his joy, not add to it.

I don't think you are being a bad submissive for wanting more direction or communicating that want; however, I do think you are being a bad submissive for concocting bogus reasons like those quoted above or claiming it "will cause a failure in proper training" in order to push him into giving you what you want. As a matter of fact, it looks to me like your claim of not enjoying the switching was false because it appears like you want to dom him here, but call it topping from the bottom if you prefer.

It is fine for you to communicate that you would like more direction, but after that is is up to him to decide whether doing so makes him happy or not and then you should accept his decision; that should be what makes you happy too.


Happyperv, i cannot pick out a particular portion i am responding too, just the overall flavor..  if i'm reading You right, it's kind of like..  "you're trying to force him to be dom, which is actually being the dom yourself.."  is that close?

i would really like to say, i think it's rare for a submissive to "accidentally" hook up with a sub male,  in a lot of cases, we've picked up on domliness underneath that maybe we didn't even know we were looking for.. so a lot of times when subs go looking, they don't notice the Dom on the couch. 

And in my talking to other subs who are married to supposed nillas,  a lot of times,  we had to admit WE conditioned the domliness right out of them early on.  If there is a pattern of non-compliance, but a lot of love, a man will stop trying to lead.  Not because he's a wimp, but because society has also conditioned them to not force power and control issues with women.  So against their own nature, they rest back and do what must be the right thing to do.

(it's nice to not have to really BE a psychologist, just play one on CM, eh?  lol. )

If it is the case where a sub finds herself with a Dom in sheeps clothing,  yes, we do have to actively get off the throne so he can assume it, and that involves a lot of overturning the conditioning both society has dealt him, AND what we ourselves did, not realising it. 

Hubby near to fell over the first time He saw me with Master, and He said "Enough on that, stop now."    Hubby said to Him... "What the hell?  YOU can just tell her to shut up, AND SHE DID IT!  I didn't even know she could! Do it again!"  LOL.    It took months for Him to realise that i would be obedient to Him.   He had to realise the power was even there before He would use it. 

The idea that "If He really liked it, He would just do it" doesn't always fly.   A good man /experienced Dom won't just take control when it's not clear He has been given it,  why should we assume a green dom would?

i hope that makes sense. 

(in reply to happypervert)
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RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/19/2006 10:20:00 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Who's needs are primary here?  If you are prancing around bitching that he isn't doing enough to meet your needs as a submissive, who exactly is serving who here?

What you are going through is very very typical of a new submissive but the point above, while harsh is one you should take to heart.  Many never progress past that point and the scene is full of couples who's primary dynamics flow from the needs and choices of the submissive.  If that works for you great.

If you want more, search some of my older posts (on couples and new doms) as I have done quite a few on this topic and despite my crappy name, there are a few here who think I might actually know my shit.

(in reply to Mavis)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/19/2006 10:32:28 AM   
SlaveAkasha


Posts: 726
Joined: 9/30/2006
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Just as the whole thing has been a process for you, I am sure it has been for your Dom/husband/Master also.  It takes time to form these types of relationships, even if a strong one was there to begin with.  The whole dynamic has changed and with that, he is probably a little unsure of his role in it.  The last thing you want to do is "force" him in any way.  This could end up backfiring and him getting discouraged and tired of the whole thing, thinking he isn't living up to what you think he should be.  That is sort of the thing about being with someone that hasn't really done much in this, there are no defined rules and just as you have to find your way as his slave, he must also find his way as your Master. 
 
This will take time, maybe months, even years.  The good thing about it is, that you both can grow together and support each other.  It will take a lot of patience, on both of your parts, but there isn't any reason it couldn't work.  The first thing you probably ought to do, is get rid of your idea of the "perfect" dom, he doesn't exist.  Each one has their own ideas, and their flaws, yours is no exception.  You just keep being a slave, and do your best to serve him, and with that, his natural feelings will come out and you will find him more and more taking control of things. 
 
I know you want everything, and you want it now.  That is a very natural feeling, so don't feel bad about it.  You just have to realize that in this instant world, not everything can be.  If it's worth having, it's worth waiting and working for.
 
I wish you the best.
 
Masters Akasha

_____________________________

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(in reply to machinegunBANG)
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RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/19/2006 10:46:47 AM   
ExtremeOwnerIL


Posts: 197
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline 		To the OP -

Personally speaking, I don't think you're in danger of "a failure of being trained properly".

A slave's position is to be trained and owned by his/her Owner as they see fit. You are in service to him. Service, IMO, is  more than being a sexual toy, or being a target for his whips, or being a maid.

It's a state of mind. It's a mindset.

If I were him, I would look to you to serve me by being patient. I would look to you to serve me by sharing in a journey of discovery and growth. This growth will take time.

Let me assure you that there is no quicker way to stunting someone's growth (either Dom or sub) by rushing them into things they are not mentally/emotionally/spiritually ready for. I think you will do a far greater service if you find it within yourself to serve him by giving him the room to grow.

There's nothing wrong with telling him how you feel but recognize that you and he are a Yin/yang and he will be affected by your service - I hope you give him your best and your love and patience. Given that, I believe if he is Dominant in nature, he will grow and learn - and you both will be happy.

I, unfortunately, speak from experience on this - having been with a slave who was not willing to be patient or serve me with her love - only her expectations of me fulfilling her idea of what a Dom should be. That was very hurtful and hard to overcome, but I did.

Regards,
EO

(in reply to machinegunBANG)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/19/2006 11:32:51 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

Happyperv, i cannot pick out a particular portion i am responding too, just the overall flavor..  if i'm reading You right, it's kind of like..  "you're trying to force him to be dom, which is actually being the dom yourself.."  is that close?

Well, Mavis, it wouldn't surprise me if that is going on, but I skirted that issue (be a dom when you're not) and took her at her (or his) word when she said "he has discovered an internal 'Domliness' that he wasn't aware of before".

So assuming that statement is accurate, it looks to me like he has a "light" style of dominating her, or is possibly taking it slow as he figures it out, and she's trying to push him into doing it her way. Maybe I'm off and your take is right because what you said made sense too -- I absolutely agree with everything you said about how a gal and cultural norms can condition the assertiveness out of a guy.

My hot button got hit because her arguments didn't make sense; I poked holes in one above, and claiming "will cause a failure in proper training" sounds like bs too. After all, he is the one who is supposed to determine whether training is a failure or not, and since he's new at it he's probably still figuring out how he wants her trained and experimenting with her reactions. I do think her training can fail here, but only because it was doomed from the start by her persistent manipulations.

Anyway, cynic that I am, I'm guessing she just grasped that hollow phrase about training and tossed it into her list of arguments to coerce him into doing what she wants without actually thinking about the implications, so that's why I called bullshit on it. After smelling some manipulative bs, I started smelling it elsewhere too, so I think something stinks here and it's not so innocent as simply trying to let his underlying assertiveness out.

So, perhaps I'm agreeing with you after all by pointing out just how she is topping him. It can be his fault for allowing it or maybe he is just used to this crap from her, but I think it just demonstrates why it could be her own behavior that is behind him not being as domly as she wants. Where others have focused on things she can do to encourage him, I'm pointing out how she need to stop trying to control IF she really is as submissive as she claims and not just saying that because she likes the label . . . but the story is so awkward I wouldn't be surprised if they're both just trying to conform to definitions that don't really fit.

< Message edited by happypervert -- 10/19/2006 11:43:48 AM >

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(in reply to Mavis)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/19/2006 11:41:57 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Sometimes we talk things through and what we think we worked out wasn't worked out because we didn't start with the same expectations or the same definitions.

Are you certain your idea of what being a dominant and master is matches his idea? Are you certain that your idea of being a submissive is matches his?

I recommend that before discussing it further you each take time to write down, in as much detail as you can, what you believe these words mean, what the roles mean, and the relationship/obligations between them. Don't discuss what you are writing, give each other a few days to do it, and then compare.

My guess is that you will discover you have quite different expectations when you aren't talking to each other.

When you know what the differences are you can work on compromises.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to machinegunBANG)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/19/2006 1:14:40 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		Happyperv, i think You're so right though..  my post got so long, i did't delve into how we can continue the process of conditioning going to other way too..  first sending signals to not be assertive, then sending signals to "be assertive THIS way"  and in either case, we're defining the process.   Hard to leave that throne that's been so comfy all those years.. 

The hardest thing for me to accept (btu i finally did)  was that S&M would not ever be a part of Hubbys Domliness.  It's His hard limit, and i really tried to force that issue.. stupid move.  i'm still learning to sit back and actually accept His controls His way.

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Eliciting a more 'Domly' response from my Master? - 10/19/2006 1:17:15 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		Tammyjo, really good advice!  i know it wasn't directed at me, but i might like to try it myself.  if the Him agrees.. it could be a really good lesson for me.  like You can't tell i am pretty full of what i think things mean. <grins>

(in reply to Mavis)
Profile   Post #: 20
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