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Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 4:54:27 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		While reading an answer to a post I came across an interesting  line. It stated that some people think that a Dom should start off as a submissive. How do you think a Dom should start?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 4:56:39 AM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline 		I think they should start out in utero like the rest of us.
Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny.
Okay no it doesnt but that's still fun to say.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 4:57:45 AM   
MsKatHouston


Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		However they feel.  I do not put any stock in having to start out submissive to be a good Dom.  I tried it when experimenting in the early years and it just is not me.  I was terrible at it.  I found it better to know myself and what I wanted to learn and pursue learning it.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 5:03:00 AM   
stillexploring


Posts: 72
Joined: 10/2/2006
Status: offline 		i sincerely doubt , why would a  dom  have to recieve  punishment/humilation ? if  they feel pain  and understand  pain of sub/slave they would simply never punish  slaves/subs ..its like   you have to be " criminal before  going to police" ?

(in reply to MsKatHouston)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 5:09:16 AM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline 		I think the concept behind this is that of a formal training situation inwhich a person who wanted to learn the how-to's of being a dom/me would go into training under an established dominant person and learn the ropes from the ground up. Much like the way a knight would train as a squire under another knight, perhaps.
Most of the people I know are not that formal about WIITWD but I can see how someone who aspires to work as a pro or have a highly visible presence as a dom in a given community (doing BDSM writing, teaching workshops, lots of public play, etc) could benefit highly from walking in the shoes of a sub before graduation to weilding the power.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 5:11:58 AM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stillexploring
..its like   you have to be " criminal before  going to police" ?


Okay, I would like to calmly and quietly invite you to consider choosing a different comparison to express your point. Im not sure this one is going to work.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to stillexploring)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 5:25:28 AM   
SirLordTrainer


Posts: 820
Joined: 5/6/2004
From: Indy
Status: offline 		Some believe thats a good way, but for Me personally I feel it from within, and what I dont feel is submissive. I believe one should follow what orientation they feel is a part of their being, but moreover IMO to become a good Dominant is through much study, via books, sites, workshops or all.

_____________________________

Accepting one's own imperfections eliminates a roadblock to progress.

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 5:30:21 AM   
diamonddreamlove


Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		I know a domme that was a sub first.  Having played with Her under the direction of my Dom i will say She is one of the absolute best floggers around.  She understands sub warm up and is wonderful at accomplishing what She wants to do as well as terrific at after care although is more likely to step back and have my Dom do that for me.  I have wondered if Her ability comes from having been a sub and understanding the needs.  On the other hand my Dom definitely would NOT tolerate being a sub.   He would have fought the concept tooth and nail and might have just said to hell with it all if that had been a requirement.  Cause that is not Him.  And while i praise the domme for Her fine work i would not replace Him for anything.   He definitely floats my boat!!!! 

_____________________________

"Many attempts to communicate are nullified by saying too much." Robert Greenleaf

(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 5:37:34 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		Well................

i think if more cops were criminals first we'd have less bad cops who are abusing their power because it suits them.  They'd have more understanding of the what ppl who are arrested go though and have abit more empathy.  We're not talkign axe murders, or any terrible crime here.  Shall i run a list of how the police abuse their powers.. or shall you all just go and watch the show Cops and see it for yourself?  And yeah, i've been arrested for really stupid shit and i got to sit there and watch them abuse their position.  So did my mother who worked as a Federal law enforcement officer and lemme tell you, it blew her away.  Local cops, could benefit alot and until they do, i'mma stay out their way as they are small town mentality with small ego's looking for anyway to make themselves bigger.

That being said.

I think a Dom neednt BE a sub in order to be a Dom, but i think that its not a bad thing for a Dom to start as a sub.  Same reasoning.  Show them what its like on the other side of the coin.  Gives them more empathy, compassion, understanding. Really, one can not know what something is like until you've walked in their shoes.  I'm not saying one can not know "anything" but i mean fully and completely.  I have a good idea what its like to be a Dom.. i watch them, i study them, i do my best to get inside the heads of them.. yet i dont fully and completely know.  Same for Dom's and subs.  

(in reply to SirLordTrainer)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 5:39:58 AM   
lilsky


Posts: 14
Joined: 10/7/2004
Status: offline 		I think it's up to the individual. A Dominant person starting out as a submissive can be very benifitial because it teaches them the mindset and the sensations. That being said i don't think it's for every Dominant. There are obviously those out there whom have naturally dominant personalities that would not be able to learn a thing this way because they can not put themselves into the submissive mindset. Lets face it, most Dom/mes are like a whole different species to us subbies/slaves. Just the way of thinking is totally mind boggling.

(in reply to SirLordTrainer)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 5:40:44 AM   
MasterRobert1


Posts: 225
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline 		In the military, you start off taking orders before beling allowed to give orders. Teachers have to be students before becoming teachers. Look around; before being given a position of authority, we require people to learn about authority before being allowed to exercise it. It's a very good system.

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 5:58:39 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		I am drawn more towards people who are open to the concept of learning from the bottom up so to speak. 

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


Visit My Website


(in reply to MasterRobert1)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 5:59:15 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		i don't think a Dominant has to go formally thru "being a submissive",    if they've had a normal life in the US, and most places in the world i can think of.. T/they've had to answer to someone.  Most of that was in formative years answering to MOM, with the exceptions of patriarchal cultures.  (Noting even the very patriarchal culture within Islam, the mother is the first authority young boys answer to.)

By far the best leaders are those that also know how to follow.. life is a circle.. W/we all have parents, bosses, and most have children or subordinates.  Only the outer sides of the bell curve don't know how to operate within authority dynamics from both ends of the spectrum. 

i think it's nice that we have within BDSM and leather circles, people who have chosen to "don" submissive roles as part of their learning curve, and then some who just morphed tastes as they grew in self-understanding and changed roles as an inner calling.  i don't find either case preferrable to another, just .. different.

(in reply to MasterRobert1)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 6:16:20 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		I dont trust folks who just are in the dom "that is the way i am , i dont have a sub bone in my body" camp.
 
Call it bigotry or wisdom of personal experiance. i have found that camp too serious for my taste, and those campers by and large are not happy, and not much fun.

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to Mavis)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 6:19:14 AM   
Iskander


Posts: 264
Joined: 9/26/2006
Status: offline 		Nah, I don't see that as a need, what if you start subbing under a D that has no clue?!

I think some basic understanding of human biology and psychology would be far more important...

Iskander...

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 6:28:23 AM   
charismagirrl


Posts: 297
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		First let me say that i think that idea works for some people and if it does it's great, although the first thing that came to mind  (and maybe it's lack of coffee lol this early) was students and general learning. All students learn things differently. Some have to go and pound the books and emerse themselves in things so they'll  learn. Some have to adopt a "monkey see monkey do" type thing and they watch and immitate what someone else has done and then hone the skill for themselves. Then there are others who just inherantly know things and are able to pick just about anything up with little or not real effort, it's just there.Then if it's something that they really have the interest and apptitude for they really shine This type would know what they want to learn and somehow step in and excel with ease.

Then there are those that try and try and never seem to learn.LOL

Secondly i wanted to comment on the criminal/cop correlation.( although someone's humor about drawing that comparrison was funny lol)...There is something to be said about this...they know the lay of the land so to speak and also the criminal mind (even better than the cops). There is a t.v. showemploying this concept, "It Takes a Thief" (although not a criminal/cop thing it is the same general idea) I'm sure there have been others but my brain isn't awake yet so i can't access what they might be lol.

Lastly, although i started as a sub and a bottom and always knew that my place was to be a slave, when i was at a loss for the right one to serve,  i was a pro-Domme (for a few years) and a life style Domme for a short while. i found my submissive mindset and the things i'd learned helped me greatly in connecting with the subs that came to me. i could totally relate and get into their heads alot easier than (i personally think) i would've been able to do otherwise.


_____________________________

For today i won't say but...
For today i wont say just...
For today i will simply obey....
For today i will trust that You are right...
For always i will be your imperfect slave

http://www.mycollarspace.com

(in reply to Mavis)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 8:11:03 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

While reading an answer to a post I came across an interesting  line. It stated that some people think that a Dom should start off as a submissive. How do you think a Dom should start?


I feel we should start as we are comfortable. The idea that a Dom should start as a sub is a remnant of when our community was very much based on a military format. It's not a bad thing, but simply may not fit all people. The community was smaller and encompassed a less broad cross section of society back then, so it worked well for them. It doesn't seem to always work now.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 8:21:50 AM   
MsKatHouston


Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		(fast reply)

I think there is a big difference between being submissive and learning from someone, something I think is very important.  I have learned many skills from dominants and submissives alike, both male and female.  I can be a student to someone without submitting to them.  As others have stated, it does work for some people and that's great.  Whether one identifies as submissive or dominant, it is important to learn and continue learning throughout the process.  This holds true in kink as well as every day 'nilla life. 

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 9:17:41 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

While reading an answer to a post I came across an interesting  line. It stated that some people think that a Dom should start off as a submissive. How do you think a Dom should start?


I think there is value in experiencing different aspects of what life has to offer. I have talked with doms that started out as submissives or switched for a period of time. I think that this gave them a valuable experience that they can bring to a relationship, and I would never denigrate that by saying it was not valuable

The question is... is it necessary to be a good dominant to start off as a submissive? Not in my opinion.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Sub to Dom - 10/3/2006 9:43:09 AM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		Some people change.  Some people grow.  Some people discover more about themselves as they age.  Everyone is different.   I think it is much easier to empathize with a person, if you were once in their position. 
Doctors who were once patients themselves generally have better bedside manner.  But there are exceptions to every rule.

_____________________________



(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 20
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