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subs in control - 9/21/2006 12:25:02 AM

dungengod

Posts: 4
Joined: 7/7/2006
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Are not sub really the control freaks ????? Is not the power all theirs to give or to take away ???do not us doms just play at control ?? For without their consent we have no one to dominate and if a sub want to be punish they just play up till we give them what they want (much to our enjoyment lol) tell me what you think x

Post #: 1

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 3:11:32 AM

DivaDuchess

Posts: 402
Joined: 8/17/2006
Status: offline

Hmmm ... I had a slave play those games with Me. She just 'decided' that she didn't want to have sex pushing to see what her collar was worth. I threw her out the door, told her to come back when she could behave. I closed the door and went to bed. She slept in the garage cause of course I couldn't hear her banging on the door. In the morning she was ... much better. After conversations with her when we first met, I knew she had abandonment issues, so I was careful how long I left her out there. What she learned is that I don't NEED her service, I want her service. She also learned that her collar was worth a whole lot, my response was immediate.

The second and last time, the slave pulled much the same thing, refusing service. She told me that it was her choice of when, where, why and how cause she had the 'pawa'. Meanwhile, she doesn't have anything We don't provide. She keeps house, watches the children and ... plays well in bed. ... so I told her to get out and with an added twist, sent her back to her abusive husband. That lasted, like not even a couple of hours, before she ran to a phone booth called me and told me she wanted to come 'home'. Suddenly it didn't look so bad, the choice she made when she came to our home. She did it willingly, submitted to learn what it was to be totally under another person's control. To serve.

The difference between back in the 1800's and now is ... desire. If you choose this lifestyle, don't play games, it's not a game. We take very good care of our slaves. They are all loved very much ... but taught a lesson on occasion?... yes.

Now ... subs? Don't want them. I had one once, it was ugly. She actually had the kids calling her mom inside about 2 weeks. She lasted 2 weeks and 3 minutes. I'm a control freak ... *lol* ... It's consentual ... it's fine. Subs? Nope, unless they had slave tendancies.

Done rambling *lol*

_____________________________

Duchess

Courage is not the absence of Fear,
But rather the judgement that,
Something else is more important than Fear.

The Brave may not live forever,
But the Cautious do not live at all.

(in reply to dungengod)

Post #: 2

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 3:17:48 AM

skittle

Posts: 4
Joined: 9/17/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dungengod

Are not sub really the control freaks ????? Is not the power all theirs to give or to take away ???do not us doms just play at control ?? For without their consent we have no one to dominate and if a sub want to be punish they just play up till we give them what they want (much to our enjoyment lol) tell me what you think x

The word there is GIVE. Once given the DOM has the control, unless she takes it back. If she takes it back and is allowed to remain there..well then there is a vanilla relationship!! LOL

If that Dom cannot keep that control, well whose fault would that be? If that submissive acts up to get something and gets it, again whose fault would that be?

skittle

_____________________________

taste the sensation

(in reply to dungengod)

Post #: 3

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 3:24:20 AM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

I don't mind a control freak for a sub/slave, as long as he is controlling things to my liking/approval. If he tries to control me or what happens in our relationship, he will be calling me a byotch from afar... But you do what works for you and yours, because that is all that matters in the end. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to dungengod)

Post #: 4

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 3:48:24 AM

twicehappy

Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dungengod

Are not sub really the control freaks ????? Is not the power all theirs to give or to take away ???

The power once given belongs to the dom/domme, what they choose to do with it is up to them. If the dominant involved does not take and keep control, allows themselves to be manipulated by the sub/slave or lets the sub/slave top from the bottom because they are afraid the sub/slave will leave then said dominant needs to go back to Dom school.

quote:

if a sub want to be punish they just play up till we give them what they want

Some doms enjoy SAMs, personally as a slave i cannot stand to be in the same household with them as i find them disruptive and the cause of excessive drama. I like a peaceful home.

If you are giving them the whipping they acted up to receive in the first place then you are perpetuating that cycle of behavior. Find another less enjoyable way of punishing them, one they do not enjoy, break the cycle.

I think one of the earmarks of a slave if not a sub is that they beat themselves up for a mistake worse than their owner could ever do. To me this says they truly are concerned with pleasing those they serve, not simply interested in getting what they want.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to dungengod)

Post #: 5

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 3:49:24 AM

DivaDuchess

Posts: 402
Joined: 8/17/2006
Status: offline

I obviously, mind a slave with control issues. However, if W/we have discussed the possibility of building them up with their servitude ... then that words for me, I can help them be a more dominant person. However, if they just suddenly grit up and say ... yo, I'm the thing ... they will be 'thingy' from the sidewalk.

*Ramble Alert*

*lol*

_____________________________

Duchess

Courage is not the absence of Fear,
But rather the judgement that,
Something else is more important than Fear.

The Brave may not live forever,
But the Cautious do not live at all.

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

Post #: 6

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 4:18:34 AM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

Ah, the chicken or the egg question. I’m going to answer this in a succinct way with one aspect of D/s. In my experiences, subs love to be beaten and will go to great measures to find someone to beat them… among other things. The power to beat or not is in my hands. I have the power. I could apply this to every aspect of D/s that interests me. It is always in my hands to give it or not.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to DivaDuchess)

Post #: 7

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 4:23:13 AM

twicehappy

Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Ah, the chicken or the egg question. I’m going to answer this in a succinct way with one aspect of D/s. In my experiences, subs love to be beaten and will go to great measures to find someone to beat them… among other things.

Lmao....so very true! Yet i never act up in order to be whipped, it would not help me if i did. If there is an issue with something i have done my owners talk to me about it. If i want to be whipped i ask, they still decide whether or not to grant this but this system does save a lot of the B.S. and drama. Why would they give me something i want for doing something they did not want me to do?

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Post #: 8

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 4:34:22 AM

mstrjx

Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

'What we do' is not universal. You can read all of the books you want, be part of the local scene, and the lot, but how you choose to implement your learning is strictly up to you. As a couple, or group, within your relationship.

Some here are stricter than others, some probably apply some 'wink and a nod' theory to how their relationship is structured (probably more akin to role-playing), but if it works for them, then it can't be viewed as wrong.

When new people enter into the Lifestyle, their early experiences probably set the tone for how they perceive 'what we do'. If their relationships are not enduring, they stay in the Lifestyle or go back to vanilla, but either way their next encounter probably won't be like the last.

We all need to be prepared to encounter those with different 'ideas' of how this all works. That doesn't mean that experienced players need to choose partners with similar experience, but there needs to be an understanding that some patience will be required for each to know where the other has been. To blindly give it the 'my way or the highway' attitude at first blush is probably not fair to all concerned.

Just how I see it.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to dungengod)

Post #: 9

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 4:36:54 AM

utterlybutterfli

Posts: 49
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dungengod

...if a sub want to be punish they just play up till we give them what they want (much to our enjoyment lol)

Not in my experience! If my Sir felt I was "playing up" to get a reaction from him, then yes, I probably would get punished. It wouldn't be a particularly enjoyable punishment for either of us - I would probably lose the benefit of His attention (very painful) and if that didn't work, be encouraged to shape up or ship out (too painful to imagine).
The idea of being in a power exchange relationship, for me as a submissive anyway, is that I give over my power and control to him. If I could "top" Him, in this way, then for me the relationship would have failed.

As for it being a Dom's pleasure to lets say, discipline ( I think theres a big difference between punishment and discipline but its already been done to death on these boards), he can discipline me whenever he likes - take his pleasure whenever he wants it. He doesn't have to have a reason, its his perogative. Now, should I decide I want a spanking, "discipline" whatever, then I guess I could mention it, but to me thats just the same thing as wanting an orgasm - within our relationship he is mindful of my needs but whether I get it is down to Him to decide. If He doesn't want me to have it, I don't get it.
I'm not a brat, I'm a grown woman, and I don't need to misbehave to have my Sir's attention. And I like it that way!

(in reply to dungengod)

Post #: 10

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 4:38:30 AM

twicehappy

Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: utterlybutterfli

I'm a grown woman, and I don't need to misbehave to have my Sir's attention. And I like it that way!

Applause, Applause!!!!!!

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to utterlybutterfli)

Post #: 11

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 4:48:40 AM

justheather

Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dungengod

For without their consent we have no one to dominate and if a sub want to be punish they just play up till we give them what they want (much to our enjoyment lol) tell me what you think x

What I think is...

Your view of BDSM is far different than mine.
I gave consent when I entered the relationship. I do not have the right to withdraw that consent when I see fit. So, basically, he has all the power.

Play up? Are you kidding? Come to my Daddy's house for a week. "Playing up" is a sure-fire way to get more of what I don't want. And anyway, that sort of behavior isnt even acceptable from children.

The difference, I think, between the type of situation you are talking about and the situation we enjoy is that in our situation, the submissive (me) is not rewarded for focusing the attention on herself. She is rewarded for focusing her attention on the dynamic.

Did I just speak of myself in third person? God, it's early.

It seems like you enjoy the sort of game that some people play, the "who's got the power game"...and that's ok. Lots of vanilla people play that game every day.
In our house, that game is not played. One person has the power and we like it that way, thank you very much.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to dungengod)

Post #: 12

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 5:48:25 AM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Are not sub really the control freaks ?????

Yes, a submissive wants the dominant to freakin' know how to manage the control that has been given to him/her.

quote:

Is not the power all theirs to give or to take away ???

The dominant also has the power to give back the control and wave 'buh-bye'.

quote:

do not us doms just play at control ??

Once discussion and agreement have taken place, both the dominant and the submissive have obligations to fulfill regarding their place within the dynamics of the relationship. It would be impossible for me to submit to someone who 'plays at' dominance.

quote:

if a sub want to be punish they just play up till we give them what they want

When the rules are clearly defined and I know what behaviors are expected of me, then it is my responsibillity to act in accordance to the agreement. To 'punish' someone by giving them what they want is counter-productive at best and it muddies the water. It is much more honest to simply ask for a pain session and accept the dominant's decision.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to dungengod)

Post #: 13

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 6:02:24 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dungengod

Are not sub really the control freaks ????? Is not the power all theirs to give or to take away ???do not us doms just play at control ?? For without their consent we have no one to dominate and if a sub want to be punish they just play up till we give them what they want (much to our enjoyment lol) tell me what you think x

Well, I suppose you're right......I can choose not to belong, absolutely.....but it would me that would be the *loser* if I did. It was ME that asked for it.....it's ME that benefits from it, in all honesty, not my Master.

I don't have the perception you may have of *punishment* ....horrific as it may seem, being punished is wholly unpleasant and not something my Master gets *enjoyment* from. ( although I think you're most likely NOT referring to *punishment* quite this way).

If I was deluded enough to think that I have any vestige of the type of *control* you mention, I'd be swiftly enlightened.

agirl

(in reply to dungengod)

Post #: 14

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 6:20:29 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dungengod
Are not sub really the control freaks ?????

A large number of subs are indeed control freak perfectionists.

quote:

Is not the power all theirs to give or to take away ???

All general authority is there's to use or transfer. We all only have the power within us that we have to use or not to use- it can't be "given."

quote:

For without their consent we have no one to dominate and if a sub want to be punish they just play up till we give them what they want (much to our enjoyment lol) tell me what you think x

But without your consent they have no one to play with either. EVERYONE has consent as part of the relationship, it does not make one person more powerful or in control of the relationship itself.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to dungengod)

Post #: 15

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 6:48:35 AM

collareddreams

Posts: 25
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline

I am a sub who plays on the control factors big time!

(in reply to DivaDuchess)

Post #: 16

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 6:56:26 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dungengod

Are not sub really the control freaks ?????

Some are

quote:

Is not the power all theirs to give or to take away ???

It is called power exchange, not power stripping, so yes the sub decides when and whom to give her power to.

quote:

do not us doms just play at control ??

Some do

quote:

For without their consent we have no one to dominate and if a sub want to be punish they just play up till we give them what they want (much to our enjoyment lol) tell me what you think x

If I choose to give control to another by consent, I am giving it to him and it is not a game for me. It does not lessen the power exchange that I consent, it deepens it in my mind.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to dungengod)

Post #: 17

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 8:34:55 AM

Jasmyn

Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline

quote:

What she learned is that I don't NEED her service, I want her service.

Nicely stated ...

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

Visit My Website

(in reply to DivaDuchess)

Post #: 18

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 8:43:01 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

I cannot say I have control issues but I certainly do not like "up in the air" things in all walks of life. I like to know that something is being taken care of or there is crystal clear communication between parties. I know this is one of the big reasons I love a more severe power exchange relationship.

As far as who has power really that is again a question for people to have debate in the air. The fact is all power exchange relationships need to be negotiated between the two parties and both need to take them very seriously for the relationship to work. I do not care about classifications bottom/sub/slave if you agree to something both need to do it on both sides. If a submissive agrees to something and then does not hold up their end it could be many reasons like not cut out for the life, discipline neglected, bad communication or some other reason. The dominant has the same responsibility as well. A submissive gives their power but the dominant has to take the power and actually use it.

These are relationships and both parties are in need of getting what they want/need. The control the OP talks about really has nothing to do with this life but it is the age old question in ALL relationships, who can walk away from the relationship easier and does that give them control and do they act on it? People in healthy and good relationships this type of thinking does not come into play.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 19

RE: subs in control - 9/21/2006 8:56:32 AM

KindredTotem

Posts: 156
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline

Awesome topic!

I am not going with either or side. I do think that to a certain extent subs do have the control. Though they are also giving over and trusting themselves within the Dominants care. A lot has to do with communication and where the relationship goes.

_____________________________

KT says:

Life changes a person, in their views, in their thoughts and in their action. The one thing that never changes is the persons main values.

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 20

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