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Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 6:02:59 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Another thread on the board caught my attention and I was wondering what everyone's thoughts are pertaining to functions where there is a mix of D/s and swinging. My own personal opinion is that I have never enjoyed these types of parties as most of the time swingers don't seem to have much understanding of protocols and tend to view everyone there as possible partners....sometimes causing some friction when approaching the D/s folks. Any thoughts?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"
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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 6:10:59 AM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Another thread on the board caught my attention and I was wondering what everyone's thoughts are pertaining to functions where there is a mix of D/s and swinging. My own personal opinion is that I have never enjoyed these types of parties as most of the time swingers don't seem to have much understanding of protocols and tend to view everyone there as possible partners....sometimes causing some friction when approaching the D/s folks. Any thoughts?
I do know of one such "club" in Dayton, where it is more a swingers club, but they do cater to those who are into BDSM activities. I don't know that it's a particular mix of the two, I think they simply do it for financial reasons...two different brands of customers, two sources of cash flow. We have never went there, even though we have been invited to attend...we are thinking the same thing you are, it's two different worlds with very little, if any, crossover.

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Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
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(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 6:11:46 AM   
mrperegrino


Posts: 14
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline 		I think you were referring to my post about the party, and being a mix of swingers and D/s friends. 

I have the same concerns... I hadnt planned on setting any "rules", just letting things evolve as they may, but this may be an issue I have to address beforehand.

Looking forward to any responses..

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 6:24:40 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, it was your thread that got me thinking. I didn't want to hijack your thread though and have it turn into a debate and have you end up not getting the party ideas that you were seeking from it.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to mrperegrino)
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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 6:33:25 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I am just not a swinger type person. I tend to run more along the lines of monogamy.  To me, swinger conotates sex. BDSM while having a strong current of sexuality, does not require sex to be satisfying to all participating. I can envision being at a BDSM gathering and playing comfortably but I cannot envision participating in a a swingers/sex orgy type gathering. That is just....icky... to me. Nothing against those that do, just not my thing at all. For me to become intimate with someone I have to have strong feelings for them.

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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 6:36:36 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		We do both. When we first began, it was difficult for me to keep the two straight, and he's had a time or two where he's not liked the actions of someone with regard to me. But basically, it's a case of "when in Rome..."

What *I* personally do is take my cue from him. If he's out flirting the evening away, then so am I because that's what he's interested in at that time. It's understood that during that time, someone may come up and flirt with me, even touch me and I may even touch them...but I'm going no where, doing nothing that he doesn't approve of - at any time.

When we do become involved with another couple, it's with his go-ahead. His decision; his choice. I may find someone interesting, but it's all about what he wants to see that evening. There are tactful ways of handling this.

When there are events that are attended by swingers, but not necessarily swinging events, I even go to them alone. One such "event" is that many of the swingers we are friends with have boats and live near me. I go out regularly to the same locale they frequent. I am always a part of the group, enjoying the water, the friendships, the sunshine, but when it comes to coupling up, the men know he's not there and don't approach me with anything other than friendship. We keep the sexual adventures to a time when he can participate. It winds up being a nice mix.

D/s isn't necessarily a public function. It's how we live our lives.

The swingers clubs that have SM equipment (not D/s - don't confuse the two, it's easier that way) do so because it's a novelty among the swinger crowd. They stand at a cross and spank each other (no dominant, no submissive, not even actually top and bottom designations) because it feels good and it's kind of titillating. When we do use the equipment, we keep our play light because it's not the right environment for such things. These are folks, for whom sex is light and fun and a full blown scene will not bode well for finding other people at later dates to swing with.

What I found more difficult to deal with were the times I'd be engaging in the activities of swinging (the touching, fondling, etc) and he'd all of a sudden be hit by HIS difficulties in the differences between D/s and swinging. When that would happen, I would just smile, thank the gentleman and move back over to where I belong. He would voice his displeasure at something (and fortunately, in our case, it had to do with what the other person did) and I'd make sure he knew that if he didn't want me with that man, then I wouldn't be with him. It was pretty easy. And then, I'd spend the necessary time with him - be it the rest of the evening, or a few moments - making sure he was all right - even though he always was.

Swinging can be a lot of fun. You have to be flexible within your relationship and sure of how you're managing your D/s. Like I said, it wasn't easy for me at first. I had a lot of stumbling blocks to get around, and it wasn't just the sex part. I really had difficulties making the switch in behavior from D/s to swing, until I realized that I could still maintain the foundation of our relationship and engage in the activities of swinging.

Mostly, you have to care for that person in your life, be they dominant or submissive, and go from there. We didn't really find the rules we use in this to be that different from anywhere else. No means no, no matter where you are, and safety first is the name of the game.

Take condoms, USE them. Require that everyone else use them. Make sure that if you (the submissive) is engaged in something that he's around and aware of what you're doing and what the other person is doing (you know, no different than if your Master allowed someone else to flog you).

juliet

(in reply to ScooterTrash)
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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 6:57:22 AM   
mistoferin


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Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra
(you know, no different than if your Master allowed someone else to flog you).


I think that this line may point to the source of conflict that I have witnessed at mixed events. Many swingers see it exactly this way....and yet I believe that most D/ser's view it very differently.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to julietsierra)
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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 6:57:51 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mrperegrino

I hadnt planned on setting any "rules", just letting things evolve as they may, but this may be an issue I have to address beforehand.

Looking forward to any responses..


Please. Do yourselves a favor. Set rules. Believe it or not, all the swingers have done so between each other as a couple before they even get there. There are basic ones - full swing or soft swing (meaning that you and someone else can go somewhere alone or that your partner has to be in attendance at all times). Sometimes, full and soft can refer to what's involved. Full intercourse or petting and oral. Either way, make clear what you are expecting from each other. And then, there are more specific rules - often made that evening on the way there.

Do you want to participate in the dances (if that's where you're going) but not the swinging afterwards? Are you there for the evening. There are lots of things to consider.

Are you a voyeur? Could you allow and WANT her to do things so that you can watch. Do you want her just participating with women, or just men, or both. Be sure what you want.

How do you feel about someone else spanking her? It's kind of weird being told in the middle of things "Don't let him do that to you again." If you don't want anyone to spank her, remember, do not spank anyone else, because the men will take their cue from you. You spank his wife, your girl will end up being spanked as well. Just as they are taking their cue from you, you should take your cue from them as to what is allowable in their relationship. Being all "domly" (meant in the most negative, arrogant sense I can say) is NOT acceptable there and will get you asked to leave.

Communicate communicate communicate.

If you've never done this before, understand that the both of you may or may not be confused with how to mix D/s and swinging. You may be at odds with what's considered acceptable behavior there and what you are used to in bdsm contexts.

Agree, if you can, that no matter how you feel, that the both of you will take a day or two afterwards to seriously sort out how you feel BEFORE discussing the event with each other (saves on the accusations that may or may not happen because you suddenly found yourself threatened by what went on.) Remember that in those situations, sex is sex and love is love and the two are not necessarily connected - except between the husbands and wives, etc. If your girl is showing signs that she's in over her head, be willing to walk away from the event or situation. There are other times, other places and forcing her might turn her off entirely, whereas introducing her slowly may be more conducive to what your goals are. (Of course, if your goal is to force her through this, a swinger's event isn't the place to do that. No one likes a crazed, frightened woman. The presumption is that whatever is happening is consensual, and the men at these events are operating on that presumption. It's not fair to them to make them the potential defendant at a rape trial that they knew nothing about)

Speaking of husbands and wives, if you've always considered yourself Master and slave, that's not the place to call it that. There, people are husbands and wives or boyfriend and girlfriend. Some will admit to delving into domination and submission, but it's not table-top conversation. They'll ask you how long you've been together. They are leery about the couples that have been together only a short time, since those are the people that have the most difficulties with what's going to happen that evening. They are MOST leery of couples who are hunting for mates and just coupled together for the evening.

Single males are, in general, frowned upon. They are viewed as poachers and people steer clear of them.

As far as behavior in the dances, think of them as beginning kind of in the way of wedding receptions...8 people around a large table in a ballroom, with a DJ and some munchies and soda. Some have cash bars. Some you bring your own alcohol, they put your membership number on it and you go to the bar to get your drink from your own liquor. Yes, there is alcohol at these events. LOTS of alcohol. By the end of the night, there are always some who can't hold their liquor. We steer clear of those because of fears I have of people who drink too much and being unable to gauge their behavior.

At any rate, I've gone on long enough. Please though. Set rules for yourselves. You'll have a much better time if each of you understand what the other is expecting.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 9/2/2006 7:10:57 AM >

(in reply to mrperegrino)
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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 7:06:54 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra
(you know, no different than if your Master allowed someone else to flog you).


I think that this line may point to the source of conflict that I have witnessed at mixed events. Many swingers see it exactly this way....and yet I believe that most D/ser's view it very differently.


Well, I was speaking of only the behavior between members of a D/s couple. You can't control what other people choose to do other than to say "don't do that again" which is why if you are being someone's desert of the evening, make sure he's there. I've had situations where that's happened, and we've agreed prior to arriving that that evening, I was NOT getting fucked...people could do whatever else they wanted, but I was not getting fucked. Then, in the middle of an oral situation they tried to climb on top. I may or may not have been able to stop them, but he was there and told the man, "no, not tonight." The man nodded, said "all right brother." and we went on with what we were doing.

The thing to remember at swingers events is that none of what they do means anything. If someone actually has a flogger there, they may pick it up and swing it at someone's ass, but a) they don't generally know what they're doing and b) they don't think of flogging in terms of belonging to someone, so saying they don't know the boundaries is both right and wrong. You're right, they don't... but on the other hand, they don't know the boundaries because no one's there saying "that's a boundary" and it's kind of silly getting angry at something the other person doesn't necessarily know.

To them, things sexual are fun and games, and that's what they're there for - not some deeper meaning, larger context, she's mine kind of thing.

A simple "Please don't do that." along with the ability to handle some lighthearted joking around helps immensely.

juliet

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 7:07:02 AM   
mrperegrino


Posts: 14
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline 		We've talked about attending mix parties with me as her sub, but your right, it's not about sex... it's a different mindset totally, even if sex is involved.

I'm impressed how fluidly Juliet is able to change with the situation.  Very rare, very impressive!  I wanna be like you when I grow up!

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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 7:17:24 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I really do not mind these types of events provided the swingers are well aware of the rules regarding the D/s folks and are capable of recognizing them.
 
Like the munch group we attend, some are pansexual some are strictly D/s and everybody respects the boundaries. There are those who touch and tease each other and there are those nobody touches (like me or JL's girl) because their owners are well known and folks know this would be a BAD idea. But in a large gathering where who was who was unknown i know i would be uncomfortable, lol, so would the swingers as most of the  D/s folk  i know tend to be extremely possessive about what is theirs.

< Message edited by twicehappy -- 9/2/2006 7:18:27 AM >

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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 7:18:12 AM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I am just not a swinger type person. I tend to run more along the lines of monogamy.  To me, swinger conotates sex. BDSM while having a strong current of sexuality, does not require sex to be satisfying to all participating. I can envision being at a BDSM gathering and playing comfortably but I cannot envision participating in a a swingers/sex orgy type gathering. That is just....icky... to me. Nothing against those that do, just not my thing at all. For me to become intimate with someone I have to have strong feelings for them. 




What the Tigress said...verbatim! 
 
bearlee

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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 7:27:02 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mrperegrino

We've talked about attending mix parties with me as her sub, but your right, it's not about sex... it's a different mindset totally, even if sex is involved.

I'm impressed how fluidly Juliet is able to change with the situation.  Very rare, very impressive!  I wanna be like you when I grow up!


You can go to these parties with you as the submissive, but again, make sure she can handle what's happening. Can she handle watching other women have sex with you? Can she handle being on the side watching what you are doing?

It's all a crap shoot but in our case, we walked in with an open mind, dealt with the insecurities (and there can be MANY), and picked ourselves up from the stumbling blocks we came across. We did this by talking without ever accusing. We practiced all that "I" speak stuff that counselors tell people to use.

Not, "You did this with her and you made me feel horrible" but "I had problems with last night. I was uncomfortable. I found that I got really jealous. I need some sort of assurances during times like this. I need to be able to find a way to communicate this with you. What can we do?"

And then, we'd talk out what we could do. One of our BIG things was that no matter what each of us is doing, the other is always within touching distance. We've managed this even when involved in full blown intercourse with others. He was always just an arm's reach away from me. And when he couldn't reach me, he made sure I saw him watching me. I could hold that connection and it got me through my jealous times.

There were other concessions...Had one time where one woman was REALLY enamored with him for that evening. She never did a thing, but through it all, she was dismissive of me, trying to make sure he paid attention to only her. We talked about it after that evening. (that evening was not the time or place for the conversation). He didn't agree with my perception of the situation. But we did come to an agreement that made me feel better about the entire situation. The next time we saw her, she tried the same thing and this time, he saw it. He made sure he danced the slower dances with me...and during that time, made sure I was all right.

There are always ways of accommodating the other person's insecurities while still enjoying the evening.

juliet

(in reply to mrperegrino)
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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 7:34:41 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		My former dom was into swinging about a decade ago when he first divorced. He was not opposed to doing this activity again. He said that if we ever went to those clubs/[arties together that many swingers do not understand D/s and some of them are actually resentful of it. I do not know if this is true... this was one area that he and I were incompatible about, because I will not be shared.. hard limit

_____________________________

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 7:35:00 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I am just not a swinger type person. I tend to run more along the lines of monogamy.  To me, swinger conotates sex. BDSM while having a strong current of sexuality, does not require sex to be satisfying to all participating. I can envision being at a BDSM gathering and playing comfortably but I cannot envision participating in a a swingers/sex orgy type gathering. That is just....icky... to me. Nothing against those that do, just not my thing at all. For me to become intimate with someone I have to have strong feelings for them. 




What the Tigress said...verbatim! 
 
bearlee


I completely understand your points of view. You can't be who you aren't, and shouldn't have to . That's why I said that it's very important to never walk in expecting things to just "evolve." If one person view sex this way and the other person doesn't, and it isn't discussed, there are some very hard times ahead. And the thing is, those hard times don't need to have been created.

Swingers dances are kind of nice because people can  be exactly who they are without the sexual component. I like them because I love to dance, and hate bars with all the people there who make me feel like I should be someone's grandma. At the swingers' dances here, most of the people are our age. If the after party stuff wasn't something we enjoyed, we could go and dance without ever engaging in anything else. If someone touches someone else during a dance, it only takes a simple "please don't do that. I'm only dancing tonight." to stop what they're doing.

Generally, swingers dances held off premisis are in ballrooms of hotels who have liquor licenses and prohibit any other activity than dancing. It happens in the corners by the tables, but in general, you CAN just go there to dance.

Sex is not a given.

juliet

(in reply to Bearlee)
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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 7:39:29 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

He said that if we ever went to those clubs/[arties together that many swingers do not understand D/s and some of them are actually resentful of it. I do not know if this is true...



They don't understand D/s. And they view it as a practice wherein there are couples with one overbearing mate and another doormat. To them, sex is just sex...not any big deal. They respect everyone's right to say no, but find D/s with all it's rules and requirements to be stifling. Most of them are married and just enjoying a night out. They don't want rules and regulations and protocols and rituals. They don't even want love. They want sex.

It's pretty simple.

juliet

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 7:44:56 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Yes Juliet, he said they all have their "agenda" which is usually  fantasy fulfulliment, and often this can seem rather selfish. My former dom told me that some swingers were actually hostile to him and a former submissive, so when they would go out in that environment she would not wear a collar or call him "Sir".

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 7:55:13 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
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quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra
They don't understand D/s. And they view it as a practice wherein there are couples with one overbearing mate and another doormat. To them, sex is just sex...not any big deal. They respect everyone's right to say no, but find D/s with all it's rules and requirements to be stifling. Most of them are married and just enjoying a night out. They don't want rules and regulations and protocols and rituals. They don't even want love. They want sex.


If this is true, and I believe that it is to a degree....combined with the fact that many D/ser's also have a distaste for the apparent lack of "depth" in swinging, it is no wonder that I've not seen much success at these events. It appears that while the practices of the opposite group may be tolerated, there isn't a real understanding or respect for each other. I don't intentionally go to events if I know that it is going to be "mixed" in this way, but at some of the events that I have been to I have had gentleman that are on the "pushy" side about hooking up physically and I have heard negative comments from more than a few about my lifestyle. "Why would I want anyone to treat me like that?" "You should have freedom to satisfy your sexual desires with anyone you wish". That sort of thing. It felt like they were trying to convince me to throw out what I believe in....mostly just so they could get a piece. I found that I came away from the experience feeling like everything that I feel so strongly about was disregarded and disrespected or viewed as some sort of game.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to julietsierra)
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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 7:55:46 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Yes Juliet, he said they all have their "agenda" which is usually  fantasy fulfulliment, and often this can seem rather selfish. My former dom told me that some swingers were actually hostile to him and a former submissive, so when they would go out in that environment she would not wear a collar or call him "Sir".


Right. I don't call him Sir there either. Nor do I wear a collar. But then again, I don't wear a collar when I go to work either, or when I'm around my folks, or any other time where the people might not understand the style of relationship I have. It's like I said at the beginning of all this. "When in Rome..."

As we've gotten to know couples who swing, they've come to know our relationship and because they know us, they seem more amenable to accepting our relationship status. When I'm out on the water, they tease me a lot..." oh wait...you can't have a chip, you need to ask first... " (lots of laughter - me included). My answer to them is always (lots of laughter) fuck you.(lots of laughter)...or "ooh, guess he'll have to spank me then....wanna watch?" as I chomp down on the chip. Or...they'll say,  "Why doesn't he come out with you? He afraid of the water? You just need to tell him "no sex" until he comes out here." (even more laughter since they all know that I would NEVER do that.) And when I laugh along and say he's fishing, someone will offer up a boob saying "tell him I've got a fish for him right here!" My response is "oooh, I WILL!!! Except you wouldn't be the fish...you'd be the BAIT cause he's been eyeing you for a long time now!" We all laugh. I haven't been disrespectful of him or of our relationship and I've not taken anything they had to say as disrespectful either.

When I've gotten home and told him what was said, he's had a great laugh too, along with "tell her I'm spanking HER next"

It can all be a lot of fun and nothing is so serious that it takes being angry over a lack of understanding.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 9/2/2006 7:56:54 AM >

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RE: Mixed functions....D/s and swinging? - 9/2/2006 8:00:44 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Another thread on the board caught my attention and I was wondering what everyone's thoughts are pertaining to functions where there is a mix of D/s and swinging. My own personal opinion is that I have never enjoyed these types of parties as most of the time swingers don't seem to have much understanding of protocols and tend to view everyone there as possible partners....sometimes causing some friction when approaching the D/s folks. Any thoughts?

Swingers completely understand swinger protocol.  They would say that YOU did not understand their protocol.

Swinger protocol is very different from bdsm protocol.

The good thing about swinger protocol however is that "No thank you" is pretty much as strong as a safeword. 

I find as long as everyone is open and comfy with relaxing int he different cultures, people can have fun.  However, if it's in a swinging environment, it will be pretty much kink-lite play for the purpose of enjoying sex more.  Any Ds would be between you and your partner and shouldn't be expected to be understood any more than a vanilla would.

I can enjoy swinging parties for what they are, but I don't go regularly.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_236085/mpage_1/key_swinging/tm.htm#236570
1 femdom to another:  swing clubs?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_32045/mpage_1/key_swinging/tm.htm#32045
Swinging and the scene

http://www.collarchat.com/m_294186/mpage_1/key_swinging/tm.htm#294186
Swinging parties and you


< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 9/2/2006 8:01:00 AM >

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to mistoferin)
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