RE: Heirarchy (Hope I spelled that correctly)

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RE: Heirarchy (Hope I spelled that correctly) - 8/29/2006 1:18:44 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
I see the owned slave as submissive to her Master, in her relationhip with him; then 'switching' her role, "switching" her mindset , and "switching" her attitude into one of dominance/control/authority in her other interpersonal relationship with the other slave.

I think you and I are veering off into a discussion of semantics and definitions, rather than a discussion of the dynamic I was referring to. Hopefully Ive managed to clear up any confusion.

And I will repeat as I said in my original response- being dominant is not the same as being A dominant. Her being dominant and dealing with the responsibilities given to her does not mean she is switching any more than a slave being told to handle the finaances of the house is switching or in ultimate authority over the finances.

There's nothing definitive in the descriptions you have given to suggest that anyone in the relationship is or is not switching.

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RE: Heirarchy (Hope I spelled that correctly) - 8/29/2006 3:16:59 PM

marieToo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
I see the owned slave as submissive to her Master, in her relationhip with him; then 'switching' her role, "switching" her mindset , and "switching" her attitude into one of dominance/control/authority in her other interpersonal relationship with the other slave.

I think you and I are veering off into a discussion of semantics and definitions, rather than a discussion of the dynamic I was referring to. Hopefully Ive managed to clear up any confusion.

And I will repeat as I said in my original response- being dominant is not the same as being A dominant. Her being dominant and dealing with the responsibilities given to her does not mean she is switching any more than a slave being told to handle the finaances of the house is switching or in ultimate authority over the finances.

There's nothing definitive in the descriptions you have given to suggest that anyone in the relationship is or is not switching.

Actually there is tons of definitive descriptions in my post that indicate that slaves are moving in and out of both roles of submission AND dominance (with human beings, not check books). Which is the basic dynamic that I wanted to discuss---the hierarchy dynamic--- and the dynamic of slaves behaving as slaves to their Master, then moving into the mindset of dominanting other slaves. I really have no desire to go into the hair-splitting, brain-wracking, non-productive, never-ending discussion of how we each define what a dominant or slave or submissive is. Im grateful to the other 99% who responded here and knew exactly what I meant.

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RE: Heirarchy (Hope I spelled that correctly) - 8/29/2006 3:20:55 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
Actually there is tons of definitive descriptions in my post that indicate that slaves are moving in and out of both roles of submission AND dominance (with human beings, not check books). Which is the basic dynamic that I wanted to discuss---the hierarchy dynamic--- and the dynamic of slaves behaving as slaves to their Master, then moving into the mindset of dominanting other slaves. I really have no desire to go into the hair-splitting, brain-wracking, non-productive, never-ending discussion of how we each define what a dominant or slave or submissive is. Im grateful to the other 99% who responded here and knew exactly what I meant.

Dominating does not equal being "a dominant"

Most subs and slaves dominate over something in their lives- whether it's kids, work, family, finances, even their local bdsm group board of directors, or whatever else the master says. Very few slaves and subs are not put into positions of dominance at some point.

That doesn't mean they are being "a dom" or even switching.

You keep using the word "role." Being in "a dominant role" does not make a person "a dom" or mean that they are switching.

They may be "switching perspectives" but that doesn't make them a switch or mean that they are "switching" in terms of Ds or bdsm.

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RE: Heirarchy (Hope I spelled that correctly) - 8/29/2006 6:04:52 PM

IronBear

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It is common enough in a Gorean Home where there are several slaves for one girl to be designated as "First Girl". usually she has the responsibility of carying out the basic slave training leaving the master to train a girl to his personal tastes. The first girl is addressed by other slaves as "Mistress" when no Gorean free are present. She has the basic disciplinary rights too and can beat ann errent slave. However the FG only holds her possition for as long as it pleases her Master. this is not switching in any way shape or form, but rather a delegation of authority for practical purposes. the same can be said for a larger Vistorian house hhold where the head female sub/slave become the Housekeeper and is addressed by other servants as Mrs...... and the head male sub/slave becomes the Butler and is address by other servants as Mr.... Such hierachial structures give form and format as well as a defined level of responsibilities and authorities regarding the smooth running of the home and usually reduced the stress for the Master and Mistress....

IB

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RE: Heirarchy (Hope I spelled that correctly) - 8/29/2006 8:07:47 PM

marieToo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

She has the basic disciplinary rights too and can beat ann errent slave.

I would find this almost impossible. I think for the "FG" to be able to so this, she would have to have "dominant" in her somewhere or she simply would not have the qualifications for the job. I mean, hell, I couldnt punish another person if my life depended on it. Id rather take the punishment from the Master for not be able to administer it to the lower slave.

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RE: Heirarchy (Hope I spelled that correctly) - 8/29/2006 10:56:36 PM

MasterNdorei

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In Master's house i instruct His beta on how things are done, and make suggestions of extra things she can do to please Him that she may not have noticed herself, as i am responsible for part of her training. It is never my position to punish, nor would i want it to be. Should Master want something a certain way, and it has slipped my mind to instruct her, any punishment would fall on me.

This works in Master's house, even with visiting girls, but to each their own....

Humbly,
Master's dorei

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RE: Heirarchy (Hope I spelled that correctly) - 8/30/2006 10:29:07 AM

marieToo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

You keep using the word "role." Being in "a dominant role" does not make a person "a dom" or mean that they are switching.

Yeah...I get that point. You dont think that behaving in a dominant or authoratative way makes someone a dom. Or that someone is a switch if they behave submissively to one, then dominant to another.

quote:

They may be "switching perspectives" but that doesn't make them a switch or mean that they are "switching" in terms of Ds or bdsm.

Ok they're "switching perspectives" AND behaviors depending on whether they're with Master or with the lower slave. (In everyday outside life this wouldnt be remarkable to me, as in Erins thread. we just flow in and out of it naturally) but in a Ds poly household where people are in intimate (not neccesarily sexual..but intimate) personal relationships..... Tell me your thoughts on that.....On being a slave/submissive to a Master and then having to switch "perspectives" or your 'mindset' when dealing with a lower slave. Do you think there would be a problem in this 'switching of perspectives" (and the subsequent switching of behavior) from being a slave to one, then transforming to an authority figure over someone else who lives down the hall?

edited for a typo

< Message edited by marieToo -- 8/30/2006 10:30:45 AM >

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RE: Heirarchy (Hope I spelled that correctly) - 8/30/2006 10:38:03 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
Ok they're "switching perspectives" AND behaviors depending on whether they're with Master or with the lower slave.

Again, actions/behaviors don't signify anything in terms of orientation. It's about the motivation, not the act.

quote:

Do you think there would be a problem in this 'switching of perspectives" (and the subsequent switching of behavior) from being a slave to one, then transforming to an authority figure over someone else who lives down the hall?

I could bring up loads of threads we've had about subs asking how they can "get into the right mindset" most especially after coming home from work, or being separated from their dom for a long time and things like that. It can be a difficult transition for some people.

But it certainly isn't a problem for everyone, and one would hope that if they consented to this relationship, they would understand the expectations and be confident about it. There are a great many alpha slaves, and a few platinum beta slaves who really are suited perfectly for this situation.

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RE: Heirarchy (Hope I spelled that correctly) - 8/30/2006 12:47:24 PM

petcerina

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i can understand this as Master and i are looking for something similar. i know that i am not a Domme or a Switch. i have tried that route and "failed" because of my desire to please. i discovered that what i actually wish to do is teach and help. For me, this can be accomplished by Master and i involving a third in O/our relationship so that i can have someone to teach and yet, still be submissive to Master. W/we have already tested this and although a collar was never given, W/we worked extremely well as a team. i am not a Switch, because the reason i failed, was because i was giving the girl exactly what she wanted all the time and not what i wanted. It is too much in my nature to do this, so i know that i cannot do it on my own. i hope this helps.

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RE: Heirarchy (Hope I spelled that correctly) - 8/30/2006 7:24:27 PM

Mavis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

She has the basic disciplinary rights too and can beat ann errent slave.

I would find this almost impossible. I think for the "FG" to be able to so this, she would have to have "dominant" in her somewhere or she simply would not have the qualifications for the job. I mean, hell, I couldnt punish another person if my life depended on it. Id rather take the punishment from the Master for not be able to administer it to the lower slave.

i see it as no more difficult than for FG to discipline children in the home. subs or slaves still have authority over others in their households alla time, without requiring some major mental shift to "switching" mentality or to adopt a "dominance behavior".. and if child messes up daddy's CD player, can bet i'll have no problem disciplining him for it if it happened on my watch.

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RE: Heirarchy (Hope I spelled that correctly) - 8/30/2006 8:12:40 PM

Skier

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marieToo...

You were hoping that you hadn't misspelled it and I quickly scrolled through the responses but didn't find a correction, sooooo.......

Hierarchy.

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RE: Heirarchy (Hope I spelled that correctly) - 8/30/2006 10:31:11 PM

marieToo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: petcerina

i can understand this as Master and i are looking for something similar. i know that i am not a Domme or a Switch. i have tried that route and "failed" because of my desire to please. i discovered that what i actually wish to do is teach and help. For me, this can be accomplished by Master and i involving a third in O/our relationship so that i can have someone to teach and yet, still be submissive to Master. W/we have already tested this and although a collar was never given, W/we worked extremely well as a team. i am not a Switch, because the reason i failed, was because i was giving the girl exactly what she wanted all the time and not what i wanted. It is too much in my nature to do this, so i know that i cannot do it on my own. i hope this helps.

Thanks yes it does help. I just find this an interesting topic and it sort of crossed my path quite accidentally one day, and I teetered around with alot of discussion with this 'family' and I just couldnt quite wrap my brain around it. Though Im sure, it does work well for some. Im like you, its just not in my nature....although....I think maybe...just maybe....if I had a Master who could get my head to the place where I was serving his desire to dominant another....well...maybe then I could do it. I'd surely try and maybe suck at it, but I think thats the only possible way that I could do it. As far as being on the bottom end of it....that'd be tough for me too, but again, if my head was in a place where I was operating this way because it was my masters wish, maybe I could swing it. It sure would be challenging and take quite a bit of conditioning to get me there. Though for some, I bet it not only comes naturally, but it probably runs smoother that way than any other way. Thanks again for your input. :)

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RE: Heirarchy (Hope I spelled that correctly) - 8/30/2006 10:39:01 PM

marieToo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

She has the basic disciplinary rights too and can beat ann errent slave.

I would find this almost impossible. I think for the "FG" to be able to so this, she would have to have "dominant" in her somewhere or she simply would not have the qualifications for the job. I mean, hell, I couldnt punish another person if my life depended on it. Id rather take the punishment from the Master for not be able to administer it to the lower slave.

i see it as no more difficult than for FG to discipline children in the home. subs or slaves still have authority over others in their households alla time, without requiring some major mental shift to "switching" mentality or to adopt a "dominance behavior".. and if child messes up daddy's CD player, can bet i'll have no problem disciplining him for it if it happened on my watch.

Ya know...this is an excellent point, but Im afraid Im screwed there too. I am not a disciplinarian with my child. I think Im lucky that she stays on a pretty straight and narrow path, because I am extremely soft with rules and structure. Once in a while I will discipline, in a very mild way at that, like maybe have her write something 25 times or something, or deny her a sleep-over one night because she didnt clean her room. And as rare as it is, I feel guilty as hell for it. I have to seek validation sometimes from a friend or my mother ...Im like...."do you think I was too harsh, or this is wrong". And theyre like..."are you nuts"???? lol. Im just a huge softy across the board. I could never be anyone's boss in the business world either Its just not the way Im wired. Pretty pathetic, huh?

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RE: Heirarchy (Hope I spelled that correctly) - 8/30/2006 10:43:03 PM

marieToo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skier

marieToo...

You were hoping that you hadn't misspelled it and I quickly scrolled through the responses but didn't find a correction, sooooo.......

Hierarchy.

LMaoooooooo............Thank you! Do you know I actually went and looked it up yesterday? I know the i before e rule thingie, but when Im not sure how to spell a word, I usually try to see a root word in it and I thought the word "Heir" as in next of kin or family members that you will things to, would be the root for such a succession of people in order under one another as in hierarchy. Hey at least my logic was pretty good. lol.

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