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Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 1:12:59 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Learning how the other side feels.  IS it possible?  While a Dom/me might sub to “see how it feels” and enhance understanding, can they actually be experiencing how a totally SUBMISSIVE person would be feeling?

I can see that while you can know how a certain instrument feels on your body with this method, I contest that if you are of a dominant personality and mind,  you could not really know how a submissive’s mind and heart feels and experiences domination.

I strikes me that being a Dom/me in Submissive’s clothing would be almost futile other than to expeience the toys and their application.

And the Converse is asked also.  Even if a Submissive is taught to  use the toys on another, are they really dominating or empathizing with the other submissive?

OK- Discuss

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 7/26/2006 1:17:56 PM >

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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 1:17:37 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Well, personally, while I identify mostly as a submissive, I have definite Switch tendencies, and can understand how a Domme might feel in certain situations (spanking, orgasm denial), BUT- I caveat this by saying I have never, ever let my feelings "mix together", even during fantasies in my own head, so that I am feeling submisssive and Domme-like, in the same scene. So it may not help at all - I really don't know how to answer.

- Susan   

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/26/2006 1:25:56 PM >

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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 1:23:28 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I don't know if I could ever totally submit. I know there are a few female dominants that I have great respect for and could probably "play" around a bit without feeling threatened or unsafe. However I am really good at getting inside someones head and trying to understand things from their perspective. It's something I feel is vital to the type of relationship I would like to have. Granted, I know I could never "get it" all but I can put myself in that headspace and understand more thru comunication with a submissive.

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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 1:29:40 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
Learning how the other side feels.  IS it possible?  While a Dom/me might sub to “see how it feels” and enhance understanding, can they actually be experiencing how a totally SUBMISSIVE person would be feeling?

No.

In fact another submissive can't actually experience how another submissive would experience.  We're just too varied.

However, being in a scene or serving AS the one without authority can be eye-opening and lend a lot of perspective to the person on all sides of the situation.  Sometimes I think my former master encouraged me to top more and embrace my switch self partly as a torture device so I'd know EXACTLY the problems and headaches he had to endure holding authority and I'd no longer be allowed to be blissful in my ignorance.

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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 1:44:07 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		A dominant wired person may not get all the submissive wooshys and gooshys but they might get some of it, and that would be more then they would have now.

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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 2:02:14 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline 		I have to say that I don't think it's possible for anyone to know how another feels so it's highly unlikely that a person can switch roles and get a lot of magical insight. Even a switch will experience both sides uniquely.

As a matter of fact, the old "try it on yourself first" myth is actually one I think is unsound and unsafe.

I had a dominant friend try out a toy last weekend on himself, declare it bearable, and whap me with it. I burst into tears and had to be comforted. It hurt like hell. There is no way he could tell from his response what my response would be, since we have different pain tolerances, and emotional make-up.

When shopping for toys I suggest the top take the bottom along, and try the toys on the bottom. That's a true test. This goes for other forms of D/s. No one can know for sure how another will perceive something. It's all intuition and educated guess-work and communication, there's just n o easy way to know.

I think this "switch so that you know how the other feels" can be a dangerously misleading concept. I say, if you are going to switch, then do so to expand your own mind and understanding of basic concepts, or simply for the joy of it.

If you want to know how the other feels...ASK!

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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 2:28:49 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I don't think it serves any purpose for a Dom, for example, to see how it feels to be a sub. Being a Dom, the only thing you will learn is that you don't like it.

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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 2:39:54 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

I don't think it serves any purpose for a Dom, for example, to see how it feels to be a sub. Being a Dom, the only thing you will learn is that you don't like it.


I totally agree.

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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 2:50:46 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Personally, I have an enormous pain tolerance, so playing with one of my toys, then using it on a submissive would be a grossly unfair test.  What I feel (or not) vs. what someone else feels is not a fair test.  Compound that with the psychological/emotional feelings during a scene vs. a sterile environment and it's clearly a case of apples and oranges.

However, I recently did a scene with a submissive that is of a different nature that I would like to try for myself.  I had already had some experience with mummification, but I wanted to go a bit further with it.  I wrapped industrial-size saran wrap, neck-to-toe on this person, then completely covered the wrapping with duct tape.  I applied a blindfold, which was the only thing on her face.  The resulting 'resting place' was on a bed with a pillow.  Visually, the sight was awesome.  The 'scene' wasn't much of one, in that in this case I wanted the experience to be an experiment without any psychological trappings, which might have made it go less pleasant.  It turned out decently, but a sore back stopped the scene after a little over two hours.  What I thought was supposed to be very hot turned out not to be so.  (I turned on a ceiling fan, and she wanted it off.)

I would like this to be done to me sometime.  I would like to attempt it with even more sensory deprivation, safely of course.  I would like to see what my timeframe would be.  It's not a competition, but useful information for the future with a future partner.  (This particular woman has since moved.)  I think it is a valid test of 'experiencing the other side'.

Jeff

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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 3:21:55 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		I had a situation where I had to opportunity to experience a known Whipmaster in the community.  I was strung up and he laid out the instruments..the last one being a cane.  I don't like the cane much..but wanted to experience it and others had said that "this guy can really make you fly". I knew him and was confident of his skills.  So there I was waiting for take off.  We got started, but I was so focused on what and how he was doing what he did, that after 15 minutes he stopped.  I opened my eyes and through his sweat drenched face he said "I can't break through your top space!" and we ended the session.  Well, I WAS enjoying it but from a scholastic standpoint.  And this is my mind set on the other side of the whip.  I can't experience if from a submissive's view point.

And I think this is strange:  Slave and I talk about switching roles.  I figured that since we know each other so well, it would be pleasurable for both.  So we agree and before we even begin, the actual change of mindset turns us BOTH off. We can feel a "shift" and it feels so awkward.  Now he can do the same activity (whatever it is) to me in his Slave space and it's wonderful... but him as Top and me as Bottom just does not work. Go figure.  

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 7/26/2006 3:40:31 PM >

_____________________________

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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 3:51:42 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		This has always been a vexed topic for me because I'm an empath, and that has a way of making things complicated, although all in all it's obviously a huge advantage.  Until I understood what was going on, I often had a hard time distinguishing between what I was feeling and what I was feeling someone else was feeling.  I've had to learn how to separate outside-in feelings from inside-out feelings.

Maybe that's hard to follow, so let me put it this way.  Although I can never know what it is like to feel submissive, I've been able to detect strong submissive feelings from the outside in, and learn to understand, at least appromixately, what a submissive must feel.  I'm not submissive and have never had feelings like that of my own (that's why I objected on another thread when someone said that EVERYONE in the life must have switched at some point), so I think it would be wrong for me even to try to feel them from the inside out.  It could never be the same thing.  But I certainly think that being attuned to someone else's feelings of submission helps me know how to dominate her.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 7/26/2006 3:52:23 PM >

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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 3:56:46 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I once talked with a dominant that I met online in a chatroom, we were only friends and had professional discussions as he worked for an NGO and I was interested in his work. He is in his early 50s and he confided in me that he had served a domme about 5 years after he was in the lifestyle (this being about 25 years ago). He said that he served her for about a year and decided that he had experienced enough of what it was like to be a submissive and went back to being a dominant. Although he said that he was never truly submissive it gave him great insight into what being a submissive feels like, how to be sensitive to their needs, and how to be a better dominant.

From what I know of the Old Guard, I think that seeing the other side of the flogger has its benefits, although it isn't a necessity.

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Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 4:08:38 PM   
babygirl005


Posts: 146
Joined: 5/3/2005
Status: offline 		Why isn't anyone positing the position then, that a sub should be a Dom for awhile to really understand how a Dom feels, and make them a better sub. It would seem to be a logical conclusion if the opposite is true. For some, changing sides may be an interesting experience, but I just don't see it as particularly valuable.
Estring

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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 4:16:29 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		ItI do not know anyone that went submissive after being dominant .. and I specified I personally didn't think it was necessary..I think that would be of value too

I think that there are many Doms that are understanding of what it must be like to be a submissive (my Dominant for example).  We are all just human beings. I think empathy and compassion makes for a wonderful dominant.

I do think that  when someone has had an experience of living one way or the other it does give them insight that I lack. I built my whole academic career on that premise though...smiles. I love seeing the world through other people's eyes, but that is not entirely possible, even if you live as they do.. although you get a better idea if you do live as they do of what their life is about....Just some thoughts

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 7/26/2006 4:17:27 PM >

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 4:27:09 PM   
michaelGA2


Posts: 1533
Joined: 4/26/2006
Status: offline 		my question regarding this topic is...how does one get ANY expreince when there's nobody to train them?

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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 4:36:17 PM   
vield


Posts: 354
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Over the years I have learned never to say never, lol.
I have seen powerful well known women and men meet partners with whom their energy flow needed to be submissive.
I have also seen submissive men and women be very surprised to discover that their energy flow with a new partner was dominant.
This does not happen to everyone, and I think it rarely will happen to either a dom or a sub unless the person is self confident and open minded. But there seem to be more and more switches all the time.
vield

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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 4:38:31 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		I know that I cannot relate to submissive feelings.  As a Dominant, I can appreciate the fact that one is submissive to me, and I also have a great appreciation for how this benefits Me as the Dominant. 
I have often said, in answer to discussions regarding beginning as a submissive in order to become a better Dominant, that I disagree.  One can certainly bottom for educational purposes, but to actually submit is something else altogether.  I cannot do it.

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They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 4:42:50 PM   
MrrPete


Posts: 614
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		I bought into this idea when I came into the scene and as I would go to Home Depot and browse for
toys I would dutifully try something on myself.

Then one day I was trying a clamp on myself and it hit me. How in the world is this going to teach me
how ANYONE else is going to feel when I use it on them. I can only learn how it feels TO ME. Since I
have a high pain tolarance my level 5 could be off the chart for her.

Whether it's a new sub or a new toy I start slow and light and work up learning how to read HER reactions.

I now evaluate toys on myself by the sensation it produces. Does this toy produce a sensation that is
different from all the toys I hav?. If it is then  I ask is it worth the money. Then I might buy it.

I don't have a submissive bone in my body. But I might bottom someday because I'm curious how much
pain I can endure.

I've done self-flagelation with a flogger and I like it. Can you get your mind around a Dominant masochist? LOL




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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 4:43:18 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vield

Over the years I have learned never to say never, lol.
I have seen powerful well known women and men meet partners with whom their energy flow needed to be submissive.
I have also seen submissive men and women be very surprised to discover that their energy flow with a new partner was dominant.
This does not happen to everyone, and I think it rarely will happen to either a dom or a sub unless the person is self confident and open minded. But there seem to be more and more switches all the time.
vield


So, if you are not open to switching, then you are not self confident nor open minded? How does that work?

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RE: Experiencing the Other Side - 7/26/2006 4:43:29 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

my question regarding this topic is...how does one get ANY expreince when there's nobody to train them?


This where you start visiiting the munches and any activites that are open to the public and get your name and face known.  I don't kow if you have done that yet..

And a smilier picture of you might help :)

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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