Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/6/2017 8:46:01 AM)

The Debate Over Whether Journalists Should Call Donald Trump’s False Statements ‘Lies’ Is a Red Herring

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/01/the-debate-over-trump-lies-is-a-distraction.html



Trump, ‘Lies’ and Honest Journalism

http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-lies-and-honest-journalism-1483557700




mnottertail -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/6/2017 8:56:55 AM)

Of course it matters whether it is false or lies. (not in an English language sense, the two being interchangeable) but in the sense that the lie that tax breaks to corporations are good for american citizens is a lie, or false, and so on, or that 'conservatives' are conservative, in any fashion. Or that 'conservatives' are fiscally responsible.

It is destroying this country.

We are far better to make policy based on reality and facts, for our country as a whole, ourselves, our children and our unborn generations than we are to make our policies based on feebleminded nutsucker asswipe. (which has already in fact been demonstrated to be ruinous, some of it repeatedly)




bounty44 -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/6/2017 9:02:25 AM)

a quick reckoning on the second page of the threads is that you are the last poster (so far) in ~19 out of 20 of them, and that on the first page, you've started ~9-10 new threads today alone.

I suggest you have a visible and embarrassing problem not the least of which is having too much time on your hands.




WickedsDesire -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/6/2017 9:04:12 AM)

maybe add in a snippet MM para or two

Poll would have been nice. I think the man is a liar - which differs from say a sophists/sophism - one on here uses a similar word what is it?
To reiterate the man is a liar. How he got into office is it not - not sure who is the worst him or the Russians. But the two have made a mockery of the American electoral system...yes yes some of the press too and unfortunately anyone who voted for him - sorry.






Musicmystery -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/6/2017 9:08:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

a quick reckoning on the second page of the threads is that you are the last poster (so far) in ~19 out of 20 of them, and that on the first page, you've started ~9-10 new threads today alone.

I suggest you have a visible and embarrassing problem not the least of which is having too much time on your hands.

Taking an hour to respond to threads is not embarrassing in the least.

That no one else was here shows just how boring the routine "feminists are being mean to me" and "liberals are poopy heads who want your guns" and "Oh my God! Clinton!" threads have become.

Time for some actual news discussion.




BoscoX -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/6/2017 9:09:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

a quick reckoning on the second page of the threads is that you are the last poster (so far) in ~19 out of 20 of them, and that on the first page, you've started ~9-10 new threads today alone.

I suggest you have a visible and embarrassing problem not the least of which is having too much time on your hands.


Trump Derangement Syndrome

Hilarious




BoscoX -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/6/2017 9:10:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

a quick reckoning on the second page of the threads is that you are the last poster (so far) in ~19 out of 20 of them, and that on the first page, you've started ~9-10 new threads today alone.

I suggest you have a visible and embarrassing problem not the least of which is having too much time on your hands.

Taking an hour to respond to threads is not embarrassing in the least.

That no one else was here shows just how boring the routine "feminists are being mean to me" and "liberals are poopy heads who want your guns" and "Oh my God! Clinton!" threads have become.

Time for some actual news discussion.


And if someone replies? The paranoid part of your derangement screams that they are "stalking" you




WickedsDesire -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/6/2017 9:15:40 AM)

I think anyone, and I mean anyone who starts threads -wonderful and a good thing for here I complain so few people do it. Many just sit around waiting to tar and feather someone - least they could put themselves up there too.

Anyhoos are we in agreement the man is a "lying pig" do they say that in America? Even England?




Lucylastic -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/6/2017 9:16:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

a quick reckoning on the second page of the threads is that you are the last poster (so far) in ~19 out of 20 of them, and that on the first page, you've started ~9-10 new threads today alone.

I suggest you have a visible and embarrassing problem not the least of which is having too much time on your hands.

At least they arent all covering one person and one source or one subject
What have his posting habits got to do to you???
Gonna whinge to a mod???, thats about your level isnt it????

Oh hey heres an idea, why not actually stick to the topic, because Im sure your response would be factual and fact filled.
It is a new year after all

Oh False and True have proven to be interchangeable to the post truthers...




WhoreMods -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/6/2017 9:40:08 AM)

The really interesting thing about the argument that the tiny-fingered ferret wearer isn't a liar, despite how blatantly and obviously he's fibbing, is that it seems to have become a sort of litmus test for the koolade drinkers. I suppose it's embarrassing to admit that the fuckwit you voted for is a lying piece of shit after he's spent his whole campaign calling other people liars and/or crooks at the drop of a hat, so those who deny that he was lying about Mexico paying for the wall or divesting his business holdings that might prove a conflict of interest when he's sworn in* (or whatever else the pedo elect has been lying about on twitter today) are clearly aligning themslves with the elect, whose faith is so strong that tiny little things like reality and history can be completely ignored if it conflicts with their spiritual leader's picture of things.
I'm starting to think the whole pathetic spectacle is pretty similar to what we'd have seen if L Ron Hubbard had stood for the presidency back around the turn of the '70s, but at least the $cientologists think they'll actually get something concrete out of denying all the lies, bullshit and nonsense that fuckwit was famous for. What do the Trumptooners gain for their support of a man± who views them with even more deeply contempt than the left does?

*(Almost all of them, if we're honest)
±(Using the term in its loosest possible sense, obvs)




bounty44 -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/6/2017 10:57:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

a quick reckoning on the second page of the threads is that you are the last poster (so far) in ~19 out of 20 of them, and that on the first page, you've started ~9-10 new threads today alone.

I suggest you have a visible and embarrassing problem not the least of which is having too much time on your hands.


Trump Derangement Syndrome

Hilarious


he's started ~30 threads in the last 10 days.

yes, i see it as that as opposed to a desire for "actual news discussion." (sorry comrade, am just not believing you there.)




bounty44 -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/6/2017 11:00:22 AM)

"Op-Ed Do you suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome?"

quote:

The country is in the throes of a major epidemic, with no known cure and some pretty scary symptoms. It's called Trump Derangement Syndrome, or TDS, and it’s rapidly spreading from the point of origin – the political class – to the population at large.

In the first stage of the disease, victims lose all sense of proportion [you mean like constantly swamping the forum with new threads?]. The president-elect’s every tweet provokes a firestorm, as if 140 characters were all it took to change the world.

Trump set up a single phone call with Taiwan’s president, and suddenly TDS patients were insisting that our “One China” policy was no more. But the reality is that telephonic communication isn’t the same thing as official diplomatic recognition. Besides, in their eagerness to highlight Trump’s alleged recklessness, the president-elect’s critics misunderstand our policy. “One China” means that we don’t recognize Taiwan as a sovereign country or China’s sovereignty over Taiwan. We’ve never considered Taiwan a mere province, and the Taiwan Relations Act obligates us to defend the island against attack.

“In the advanced stages of the disease, the afflicted lose touch with reality. Opinion is unmoored from fact.

The mid-level stages of TDS have a profound effect on the victim’s vocabulary: Sufferers speak a distinctive language consisting solely of hyperbole. Politico recently ran a piece that noted Trump’s supposedly unprecedented decision to continue using his private security force, which provoked former independent presidential candidate Evan McMullin to tweet: “A predictable move for a kleptocratic authoritarian who wants to operate outside the bounds of law and basic ethical standards. Even more troubling, he may use the force's lack of government oversight & presidential veneer to carry-out extralegal acts of force.”


It’s quite a stretch to suggest that a desire to keep trusted lieutenants is actually a sinister plot to create a version of the brownshirts, but such illogical leaps are the pathway to the next stage of TDS: a state of constant hysteria.

Especially when discussing Trump’s views on immigration, hysterical TDS victims assume there’s no difference between the president-elect’s rhetoric (get out!) and his proposed policy (deporting known criminals who are in this country illegally). As Reince Priebus, Trump’s chief of staff, put it: “He’s not calling for mass deportation. He said, ‘No, only people who have committed crimes.’ And then only until all of that is taken care of will we look at what we are going to do next.”

As TDS progresses, the afflicted lose the ability to distinguish fantasy from reality. Despite Trump’s expressed desire to “work something out” for the so-called Dreamers – those brought here as very young children – Trump’s critics continue to harp on this issue. Immigration advocate Frank Sharry, executive director of America’s Voice, who has a very bad case of TDS, inadvertently revealed this mind set when he said: “Before anyone falls into the trap of believing that Trump is ‘softening’ on immigration, they should remember that we’ve seen this movie before.”

A movie, eh?

In the advanced stages of the disease, the afflicted lose touch with reality. Opinion is unmoored from fact. Life resembles a dark fairy tale in which the villain – Trump – is an amalgam of all the worst tyrants in history, past and present, while the heroes –Trump’s critics – are akin to the resistance fighters of World War II.

TDS victims routinely compare Trump to Hitler: Time magazine ran an opinion piece that asked “Just how similar is Donald Trump to Hitler?” The answer: “The comparison between Hitler and Trump is so poignant” because “both men represent their personal character as the antidote to all social and political problems.”

Since Hitler has been dead for more than 70 years, though, victims may feel the need for a more potent bogeyman, a tyrant with more currency. And they’ve found one in Russian President Vladimir Putin, whom they insist ordered a hacking campaign to help Trump win the election.

The other day, Tucker Carlson of Fox News interviewed TDS-riddled Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Burbank). Carlson asked for evidence that Putin’s alleged machinations had any effect on the election. Unable to come up with a coherent answer, Schiff morphed into J. Edgar Hoover: “You're carrying water for the Kremlin,” he said, “you're going to have to move your show to ‘Russia Today.’”

If you ask a TDS victim what might help them feel better, they’ll use the word “normalize.” As in, we mustn’t “normalize” Trump. What they’re really saying is that normal means of dealing with him aren’t enough. Which raises the question: If he’s another Hitler, if he’s in league with Putin, then why is assassination out of the question? Poke a TDS victim and you’ll find they don’t think that “solution” is out of the question at all.

This is the final stage of the TDS epidemic: violence against a democratically elected leader. Unless a cure for TDS is found, this is where we are headed.



http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-raimondo-trump-derangement-syndrome-20161226-story.html




bounty44 -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/6/2017 11:03:15 AM)

or maybe this one's better? I do like Bernie goldberg:

"It's Worse Than Bush Derangement Syndrome"

quote:

You remember Bush Derangement Syndrome, right? It was when the mere mention of President George W. Bush's name sent liberals into a fevered state of instability. Someone would carelessly say "Bush" and their eyes would involuntarily begin to roll, and then came the shortness of breath, followed by foam forming on the poor victim's mouth -- though this mainly happened among Bush-hating liberals who lived on the Upper West Side of Manhattan or in Hollywood.

It was horrible, for sure, but not as horrible as Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Before the election, the victims of TDS routinely compared Donald Trump to Hitler. Guess what. They're still doing it. Articles in respectable publications written by professors at elite universities are warning us to be on guard, that a Trump presidency could imperil democracy-as-we know it and may very well spell doom for American civilization.

On election night, as it became obvious that their worst nightmare was about to come true, some libs fainted. Some vomited. Many more threatened to leave the country, but I'm pretty sure none actually did. As Donald Trump might say in a tweet: so sad!

On college campuses the snowflakes melted. At Cornell, students with TDS held a "cry-in" to mourn the results with staff handing out tissues and hot chocolate to ease the pain of Trump's victory. At the University of Kansas the cupcakes were offered therapy dogs. A dorm at the University of Pennsylvania set up a "breathing space" the night after the election where coloring books, snacks and puppies were available for students who needed to "decompress in a low-key and low-stress environment." At Vanderbilt, the children who were traumatized by Trump's election were encouraged by the grown-ups on campus "to take advantage of the outstanding mental health support the university offers." At Yale, and many other schools where TDS was running rampant, tests were canceled because students were in "shock."

Trump Derangement Syndrome: It's more terrifying than cancer.

Actually, I didn't make that up. Here's part of a letter to the editor published in the Miami Herald from a woman whose 90-year old mother, Ruth, a Holocaust survivor, is battling cancer:

"Today, in her beloved America, Ruth sees the same warning signs she saw in Nazi Germany: anti-Semitism, criticism of the free press, curtailed freedom of expression, religious slurs, overt racism and talk of punishing people for who they are and what they believe." The daughter goes on to say that, "The thought of a president who foments and legitimizes these dangerous trends is more terrifying to her than the cancer she is battling."

Got that? Cancer is bad. Trump is worse!

So in an effort to undo the election results and save the republic, Dr. Jill Stein, who ran for president on the Green Party ticket, demanded a recount in three states that traditionally vote Democratic but narrowly went for Trump this time around.

When that turned up nothing, the TDS crowd tried to shame electors into voting for Hillary Clinton instead of Donald. There were even death threats aimed at electors who said they would vote for Trump, as they had pledged to do.

Imagine if Clinton had won and Trump supporters demanded a recount, tried to shame electors into rejecting Clinton and went so far as to threaten to murder electors who voted for her.

Imagine how liberals would have reacted. Imagine how the liberal journalists who don't even try to hide their hatred of Trump would have reacted.

Turns out that the same people who were outraged when Trump said he might not support the election results ... were now the ones not supporting the election results.

And the ones who said he was trying to de-legitimize the expected Clinton victory ... were the ones now trying to de-legitimize Trump's actual victory.

The ones who said he was a threat to democracy ... were now the ones proudly proclaiming that Donald Trump "Is not my president" -- not grasping that comments like that were a threat to democracy.

I was and still am not a fan of Donald Trump. I find him to be both a narcissist and a braggart, not qualities I admire in a man who will soon be president. But I find it more than a little ironic that the people who have brought me closer to the president-elect are liberals with TDS, who I find more annoying than Donald Trump -- and much more deranged.

Oh, yeah. Happy New Year.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/01/03/its_worse_than_bush_derangement_syndrome__132696.html




BoscoX -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/6/2017 11:05:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

a quick reckoning on the second page of the threads is that you are the last poster (so far) in ~19 out of 20 of them, and that on the first page, you've started ~9-10 new threads today alone.

I suggest you have a visible and embarrassing problem not the least of which is having too much time on your hands.


Trump Derangement Syndrome

Hilarious


he's started ~30 threads in the last 10 days.

yes, i see it as that as opposed to a desire for "actual news discussion." (sorry comrade, am just not believing you there.)



He is doing it to stop discussion. That, or or he is just insane or whatever.

The alt left (as insane as they are) are learning that when the people themselves communicate thoughts and ideas, they lose




Musicmystery -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/6/2017 11:05:30 AM)

...and yet being the last three posters, as you do fairly frequently, isn't obsessive. [8|]

Hint: in a discussion, wait for a second voice to talk to. Otherwise, it's a monologue...and a little bit crazy.




WhoreMods -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/6/2017 12:38:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
"It's Worse Than Bush Derangement Syndrome"

How does it compare to Obama derangement syndrome?
If anybody has been claiming that the orange cockwomble lacks a birth certificate and so his becoming the President is unconstitutional*, I missed that.

*(and letting the terrorists win by putting a moslem in the white house, obvs)




DesideriScuri -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/9/2017 9:30:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
The Debate Over Whether Journalists Should Call Donald Trump’s False Statements ‘Lies’ Is a Red Herring
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/01/the-debate-over-trump-lies-is-a-distraction.html
Trump, ‘Lies’ and Honest Journalism
http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-lies-and-honest-journalism-1483557700


Absolutely, it matters. There's a big difference between being wrong and lying. Making false claims because you think it's true (but you're wrong), is much different than knowing you're wrong, but making the false claim anyway.

Fill in the blank with whomever you want:
    Call _____'s lies, lies.
    Call _____'s false statements, false statements.


It doesn't matter whose name you put in the blanks. Everyone should be treated the same.







WhoreMods -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/9/2017 10:56:23 AM)

A fine point. Possibly the cockwomble's "folksy retard" stance while campaigning is (like George II's was before him) an affectation that he's hoping will help him to claim ignorance rather than deceit when he's caught talking utter fucking nonsense in office?




MrRodgers -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/10/2017 11:27:26 AM)

The bar at least for the right, has been lowered so far...how would we ever know ? Suffice it so say that with Trump we don't because he talks (tweets) so much...before he thinks.




BoscoX -> RE: Does it matter whether Trump's claims are "false" or "lies"? (1/10/2017 11:37:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

The bar at least for the right, has been lowered so far...how would we ever know ? Suffice it so say that with Trump we don't because he talks (tweets) so much...before he thinks.


If Trump were another affirmative action Democrat president alt left drones' hearts would be aflutter as they hailed his use of social media as "historic" and proof that he was technologically savvy, trumpet him as an awesome communicator comparable to Reagan blah blah blah




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