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PeonForHer -> RE: University of Minnesota’s proposed free speech protections would be “the most comprehensive to date” (5/13/2016 10:58:02 AM)
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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
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Ah yes...higher interest because you were able to take him where you wanted to go instead of answering a straightforward question about what the original topic. Nice deflection...and trolling.
No, just not interested in being trolled - either by the OP, or by you, in support of him. I have mixed views about the issue of free speech in universities, as indicated in post 23 - as indeed anyone with any brains would, I think. Nick didn't present anything worth considering and nor did you. I'm sorry I didn't get more angry with either you or Nick, CD - but there we are. Better luck next time.
My only issue with free speech on university campuses is that it indeed needs to be the same as it would anywhere else where you've paid to attend something.
If Noam Chomsky is invited to speak on campus and all those interested in hearing him go, they ought to be able to listen without disruption, either from outside the hall or within it.
I believe the same should hold true for speakers from the right, whether it be David Horowitz or Anne Coulter.
That's why I applaud the U. of M.
Myself, I'm wary of the U of M's new policy. On the one hand, freedom of speech is vital in order for any group of people to have any kind of sensible debate that allows all useful views. On the other hand, so is a certain level of protection. When I was at uni as an undergrad, it was during the heyday of Thatcher. Left and Right had polarised and there was a lot of animosity. This was compounded by my uni being based in the City of London and a lot of the students living a mile or so away in the East End, as did I. The upshot was that there were very lefty students mixing with very righty Thatcherites (studying business, economics and the like). We lived in an area that was infamous for both its fascist movement (the BUF, and the later NF and BNP) and its communist movements.
Unless people were careful with what they said, outright fights would start at union meetings, at student parties and in the pubs near the halls of residence. I mean - these weren't just punch-ups - they could be way more vicious. Doubly so, if they involved locals rather than students. There were a lot of complaints and many of these came from the parents.
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My only issue with free speech on university campuses is that it indeed needs to be the same as it would anywhere else where you've paid to attend something.
Beyond paying to attend something ... I wouldn't say 'the same as anywhere else'. Paradoxically, I'd like it be both freer *and* more of a protected environment (than I had myself, certainly). Freer, because we're talking of an institution of learning; people are there to be educated and one needs to consider opposing views. But more protected because students tend to be young and still grappling with big, heavy ideas - while at the same time still growing at a fast rate, emotionally-speaking. There will be some - perhaps many - who need more than the usual minimum level of 'safe atmosphere' in order to open up at all. This isn't just about what's called 'negative freedoms' (freedom *from* - control, authority) but 'positive freedoms' (positive encouragement of people, for instance, who've kept themselves in shells for so long that they're habituated into silence).
I can't speak much about undergrad life as it is now: it's been too long since I was immersed in it. Still less can I talk about undergrad life in the USA (or any other country) at present. All I can really go on is my own experience - and that very much did teach me why certain of those original safeguards were first built in.
ETA, and the icing on the cake re my uni days: there were a lot of Jews studying there (generally the business subjects) and the East End has a large Jewish population. Naturally they had their opponents, too. Any and every issue regarding the Middle East generated the most hostile vibe of all. Very heavy-looking people who didn't look like students and whom nobody recognised would turn up at student union meetings. All good fun. [;)]
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