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Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 6/29/2015 11:23:37 AM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/13-1314_kjfl.pdf

Seems the people of my state have trumped the legislature to eliminate gerrymandering. Other states could do the same if they saw fit using the initiative method outlined in their state. Puts elections back on what I consider a better and more equitable footing.
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RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 6/29/2015 5:48:48 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/13-1314_kjfl.pdf
Seems the people of my state have trumped the legislature to eliminate gerrymandering. Other states could do the same if they saw fit using the initiative method outlined in their state. Puts elections back on what I consider a better and more equitable footing.


I'd be okay with the Legislature continuing to map the Districts, but I'd much rather see The Democrats appoint X representatives to the committee, and the Republicans appoint X representatives to the committee. New maps have to pass 75% from the committee (meaning at least half of the other side would have to agree to it).


_____________________________

What I support:

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(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 6/29/2015 6:24:51 PM   
cloudboy


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Great Post. I fully support such initiatives 100%.

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 6/29/2015 7:23:53 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
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Status: offline 		We can only hope and that this spreads throughout the country.

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 6/29/2015 9:15:50 PM   
MasterJaguar01


Posts: 2815
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline 		There is no way, the Republicans have a majority in the House without gerrymandering.

Not a chance.


(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 6/29/2015 9:20:02 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

There is no way, the Republicans have a majority in the House without gerrymandering.

Not a chance.



Only because that is what you want to believe.

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)
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RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 6/29/2015 9:25:14 PM   
MasterJaguar01


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

There is no way, the Republicans have a majority in the House without gerrymandering.

Not a chance.



Only because that is what you want to believe.



I want to believe it, because the numbers say it is true. Take 2012 for example. Actual share of popular vote VS actual share of seats occupied:

http://assets.motherjones.com/interactives/projects/2012/11/gerrymandering/stacked-gop.png

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 6/30/2015 1:24:30 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
There is no way, the Republicans have a majority in the House without gerrymandering.
Not a chance.

Only because that is what you want to believe.

I want to believe it, because the numbers say it is true. Take 2012 for example. Actual share of popular vote VS actual share of seats occupied:
http://assets.motherjones.com/interactives/projects/2012/11/gerrymandering/stacked-gop.png


Pretty graphics are but circumstantial evidence, not necessarily proof.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)
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RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 6/30/2015 11:44:44 AM   
joether


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Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/13-1314_kjfl.pdf

Seems the people of my state have trumped the legislature to eliminate gerrymandering. Other states could do the same if they saw fit using the initiative method outlined in their state. Puts elections back on what I consider a better and more equitable footing.


Like gay marriage, I'm sure conservatives will try some way of getting out of any ruling by the US Supreme Court. Florida voted to end gerrymandering in their state though a ballot. It passed with 63% (I think that was the number) voting in favor of it. Unfortunately with just one 'executive privilege' by the Republican government, sent the whole thing into an abyss.

I do not see Arizona getting rid of gerrymandering in that state. The Republicans and Tea Party have to much to lose by allowing the common people to vote more fairly.

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 6/30/2015 7:09:10 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Seems like Joe doesn't approve of the people's win.

(in reply to joether)
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RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 6/30/2015 7:53:11 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
Seems like Joe doesn't approve of the people's win.


I wonder which he sees as a greater danger, ISIS or the GOP/TP...


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 6/30/2015 8:35:21 PM   
MasterJaguar01


Posts: 2815
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
There is no way, the Republicans have a majority in the House without gerrymandering.
Not a chance.

Only because that is what you want to believe.

I want to believe it, because the numbers say it is true. Take 2012 for example. Actual share of popular vote VS actual share of seats occupied:
http://assets.motherjones.com/interactives/projects/2012/11/gerrymandering/stacked-gop.png


Pretty graphics are but circumstantial evidence, not necessarily proof.


If the percentage of Republican seats statewide greatly exceeds the percentage of Republican votes statewide... How can there be ANY other cause than the district lines drawn?

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 6/30/2015 8:53:08 PM   
cloudboy


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All the conservative justices --- effectively voted for Gerrymandering. What a bunch of assholes.

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 6/30/2015 9:19:39 PM   
MasterJaguar01


Posts: 2815
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
There is no way, the Republicans have a majority in the House without gerrymandering.
Not a chance.

Only because that is what you want to believe.

I want to believe it, because the numbers say it is true. Take 2012 for example. Actual share of popular vote VS actual share of seats occupied:
http://assets.motherjones.com/interactives/projects/2012/11/gerrymandering/stacked-gop.png


Pretty graphics are but circumstantial evidence, not necessarily proof.


If the percentage of Republican seats statewide greatly exceeds the percentage of Republican votes statewide... How can there be ANY other cause than the district lines drawn?



Then of course is the famous Republican State Leadership Committee Memo:

"Controlling the redistricting process in these states would have the greatest impact on determining how both state legislative and congressional district boundaries would be drawn. Drawing new district lines in states with the most redistricting activity presented the opportunity to solidify conservative policymaking at the state level and maintain a Republican stronghold in the U.S. House of Representatives for the next decade."

Republicans CLEARLY believed they achieved their majority via gerrymandering. They would know better than either of us :)

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)
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RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 6/30/2015 10:19:16 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
Seems like Joe doesn't approve of the people's win.


I'm all for outlawing gerrymandering. Would go so far as to create the 28th amendment as such!

I'm point out that Florida had an open ballot in which 63% of those voting approved to outlaw gerrymandering. The Republicans in control of Florida's government placed it within a 'legal abyss' with just one action. Where is all the outrage among those voters towards the Republicans in that state?

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 6/30/2015 10:29:49 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
Seems like Joe doesn't approve of the people's win.


I wonder which he sees as a greater danger, ISIS or the GOP/TP...


Let's see, which of these two groups almost shut down the entire US Government?

A ) ISIS
B ) GOP/TP

The answer is: the GOP/TP. Or have you forgotten Sen. Ted Cruz's infamous plan to whole the government over a barrel unless the Affordable Care Act was removed from the books a few years ago?

Who created that monster of a debt? The so called 'fiscal conservatives' whom elected George W. Bush not once, but TWICE! And whom resisted restoring the tax rate to the 1%, which would reduce the deficit that adds to that debt each year? The GOP/TP again! Who has spent the better part of the Obama administration accomplishing....NOTHING....of use to this nation beyond what they are required to do? The GOP/TP. The GOP/TP has control of Congress for the last 7 months, what have they done with it? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

ISIS 'involvement' in the USA is irrelevant. Like comparing an ant hill (ISIS) to a mountain (GOP/TP). The irony is this nation spends more time, energy, and awareness on ISIS rather than the organization that doesnt give a fuck if the 99% lives or dies (let alone exist). The GOP/TP successfully removes infrastructure on senior citizen's healthcare and within three to five years, 10,000 of them die (because of those actions). Verse ISIS exploding a bomb that kills 11 people. Which will the public notice more and demand the US Government take action?



< Message edited by joether -- 6/30/2015 10:30:05 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 7/1/2015 3:04:53 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
There is no way, the Republicans have a majority in the House without gerrymandering.
Not a chance.

Only because that is what you want to believe.

I want to believe it, because the numbers say it is true. Take 2012 for example. Actual share of popular vote VS actual share of seats occupied:
http://assets.motherjones.com/interactives/projects/2012/11/gerrymandering/stacked-gop.png

Pretty graphics are but circumstantial evidence, not necessarily proof.

If the percentage of Republican seats statewide greatly exceeds the percentage of Republican votes statewide... How can there be ANY other cause than the district lines drawn?


The idea that gerrymandering is the cause might have merit, but it isn't guaranteed to have merit. As a an extreme hypothetical, if zero Republicans in large city areas, and zero Democrats voted in rural areas, equal numbers of votes could be had, but it can also lead to a different result in the seat assignments.

I do admit I did not support the way Ohio redistricted. Taking a Section of Cleveland (Dennis Kucinich's District) and connecting it to a section of Toledo (Marcy Kaptur's District) by a sliver of land along the Southern shore of Lake Erie, was just ridiculous. Yes, Ohio lost 2 seats, but that's not proper representation by any stretch.

To sum up, that graphic isn't proof that gerrymandering is the cause. That's not to say it isn't correct, it's just not proof.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 7/1/2015 3:07:08 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
Seems like Joe doesn't approve of the people's win.

I wonder which he sees as a greater danger, ISIS or the GOP/TP...

Let's see, which of these two groups almost shut down the entire US Government?
A ) ISIS
B ) GOP/TP
The answer is: the GOP/TP. Or have you forgotten Sen. Ted Cruz's infamous plan to whole the government over a barrel unless the Affordable Care Act was removed from the books a few years ago?
Who created that monster of a debt? The so called 'fiscal conservatives' whom elected George W. Bush not once, but TWICE! And whom resisted restoring the tax rate to the 1%, which would reduce the deficit that adds to that debt each year? The GOP/TP again! Who has spent the better part of the Obama administration accomplishing....NOTHING....of use to this nation beyond what they are required to do? The GOP/TP. The GOP/TP has control of Congress for the last 7 months, what have they done with it? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
ISIS 'involvement' in the USA is irrelevant. Like comparing an ant hill (ISIS) to a mountain (GOP/TP). The irony is this nation spends more time, energy, and awareness on ISIS rather than the organization that doesnt give a fuck if the 99% lives or dies (let alone exist). The GOP/TP successfully removes infrastructure on senior citizen's healthcare and within three to five years, 10,000 of them die (because of those actions). Verse ISIS exploding a bomb that kills 11 people. Which will the public notice more and demand the US Government take action?


Thank you for proving my point. Note that I didn't specify which was a greater danger to the US, but left it wide open.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 7/1/2015 8:01:48 AM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Redistricting is usually done after the census for the decade. Now, what constitutes gerrymandering.

Should districts be cookie cutter based on geographical area? What happens if one county as 5000 residents and one has 1.2 million but each gets one seat in the legislature? It sure gets confusing when one side of the street is in one district and the other side is in another... "What do you mean I have to drive 30 miles to vote in District 3 when I'm half a block from the District 4 polling location?"

Should districts be done based on race? Well you can gerrymander to dilute one race's ability to get one of their own into the legislature. Or, you can gerrymander like crazy to get guaranteed seats for one of your own.

This is an issue that has been debated and challenged ever since there were elections.
I guess, in a perfect world, we would just use a computer program to balance things out where there are near equal number of voters in each district.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Gerrymandering could be on the way out - 7/1/2015 1:17:01 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Note that I didn't specify which was a greater danger to the US, but left it wide open.


An which is a greater danger in your viewpoint?

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 20
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