Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians"

Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (Full Version)

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Owner59 -> Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/28/2015 2:38:28 PM)
"Pope Francis Says People Who Manufacture Or Invest In Weapons Can't Call Themselves Christians" [:D]

bounty44 -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/28/2015 3:10:42 PM)
first---why do you care? you haven't prompted the thread with any thoughts or reaction to the article and my limited experience is that you are irrationally hostile to Christianity. more importantly, there is nothing in the text of the article in terms of direct quotes by the pope that fully support the article's or the thread's title. being catholic, the pope is well acquainted with Augustine's and Aquinas' conditions for a "just war", which implies Christians being morally/ethically correct in going to, and logistically supporting war, so the odds are pretty good he did not in fact say what you and the huffington post are saying he said. unlike the quakers, amish and a few others, the catholic faith is not pacifist faith and the official position of the catholic church as concerns war is laid out in their catechism, part III, section III safeguarding peace and sub section 2307-2317, the latter of which, 2309-2317 deal with the very topic at hand in a way completely contrary to the supposition of the huffington post. if you are genuinely interested and would like direct quotes of the sections, I trust you can find them online.

JVoV -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/28/2015 3:12:37 PM)
same article: quote: "The great powers had the pictures of the railway lines that brought the trains to the concentration camps like Auschwitz to kill Jews, Christians, homosexuals, everybody. Why didn't they bomb (the railway lines)?" Sounds like the Pope is calling for bombing Iraqi dams, to defeat ISIS to me.

PeonForHer -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/28/2015 3:12:56 PM)
What? What??? This pope's a communist, a terrorist and probably a satanist too. There can be no other explanation for this heresy. Doesn't the Pope know that the 2nd Amendment was carved in stone by lightning from Our Lord's Finger Itself (OLFI) two thousand years before the Bible was written?

eulero83 -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/28/2015 4:04:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 first---why do you care? you haven't prompted the thread with any thoughts or reaction to the article and my limited experience is that you are irrationally hostile to Christianity. more importantly, there is nothing in the text of the article in terms of direct quotes by the pope that fully support the article's or the thread's title. being catholic, the pope is well acquainted with Augustine's and Aquinas' conditions for a "just war", which implies Christians being morally/ethically correct in going to, and logistically supporting war, so the odds are pretty good he did not in fact say what you and the huffington post are saying he said. unlike the quakers, amish and a few others, the catholic faith is not pacifist faith and the official position of the catholic church as concerns war is laid out in their catechism, part III, section III safeguarding peace and sub section 2307-2317, the latter of which, 2309-2317 deal with the very topic at hand in a way completely contrary to the supposition of the huffington post. if you are genuinely interested and would like direct quotes of the sections, I trust you can find them online. at this link you can find the original text of his speech and here is the quote you asked: quote: Se tu ti fidi soltanto degli uomini, hai perso. [risate e applausi]. A me fa pensare una sola cosa: gente, dirigenti, imprenditori che si dicono cristiani e fabbricano armi [applausi]. E quello dà un poco di sfiducia. Ma si dicono cristiani! No no padre, io non fabbrico! Soltanto ho i miei investimenti nelle fabbriche di armi. Eh! E perché? Perché gli interessi sono un poco più alti. E anche la doppia faccia è moneta corrente oggi. Dire una cosa e farne un’altra [applausi]. L’ipocrisia. Ma vediamo cosa è successo il secolo scorso. I guess I need to translate if you trust only the men, you lost. [laughter and applauses]. There is just one thing that makes me think: people, managers, business owners, that call themself christians and produce weapons [applauses]. That's what brings distrust. But they call themself christians! "No no father, I don't produce! I just have my investments in weapon's companies." What?! Why is that? "because the interests are a little higher" also a double face is currency today. Say something and do another one [applauses]. The hypocrisy. So let's see what happened the last century.

MrRodgers -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/28/2015 5:15:07 PM)
Religion is inadequate and corrupted as a basis for seeking, preserving or maintaining peace. From this century and the 20th century going back, few military actions were taken for those purposes. On the contrary, religion has all too often been used as a means to rally people to military action resulting all too often in anything but...preserving the peace.

BamaD -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/28/2015 5:32:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Religion is inadequate and corrupted as a basis for seeking, preserving or maintaining peace. From this century and the 20th century going back, few military actions were taken for those purposes. On the contrary, religion has all too often been used as a means to rally people to military action resulting all too often in anything but...preserving the peace. So since we should ignore religion you see no reason to pay attention to this.

MrRodgers -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/28/2015 5:48:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Religion is inadequate and corrupted as a basis for seeking, preserving or maintaining peace. From this century and the 20th century going back, few military actions were taken for those purposes. On the contrary, religion has all too often been used as a means to rally people to military action resulting all too often in anything but...preserving the peace. So since we should ignore religion you see no reason to pay attention to this. We should ignore those who would start or engage in war on the basis of any religion or in or by the use of religious fervor. As for what the Pope had to say, he's only a few hundred years late. He makes Christianity i.e., Christians and any resulting hypocrisy, sound like a new thing. Hardly. No need for any real concern among the faithful, he's not changing anybody's thinking at this late date. The faith in war and profits is much stronger than any religious faith.

Owner59 -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/28/2015 6:34:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 first---why do you care? you haven't prompted the thread with any thoughts or reaction to the article and my limited experience is that you are irrationally hostile to Christianity. more importantly, there is nothing in the text of the article in terms of direct quotes by the pope that fully support the article's or the thread's title. being catholic, the pope is well acquainted with Augustine's and Aquinas' conditions for a "just war", which implies Christians being morally/ethically correct in going to, and logistically supporting war, so the odds are pretty good he did not in fact say what you and the huffington post are saying he said. unlike the quakers, amish and a few others, the catholic faith is not pacifist faith and the official position of the catholic church as concerns war is laid out in their catechism, part III, section III safeguarding peace and sub section 2307-2317, the latter of which, 2309-2317 deal with the very topic at hand in a way completely contrary to the supposition of the huffington post. if you are genuinely interested and would like direct quotes of the sections, I trust you can find them online. I`m am a Christian and a believer in liberation theology. Who the fuck are you again? I`m not a Catholic but I`m ok with anyone who is a good faith player of any denomination. I`m even ok with Atheists of good will or anyone who isn`t a malfeasant prick, regardless. I also have little respect or time for uber-religious dolts who think they know someone else`s faith better . That kind of Christian is a real jack ass.

kdsub -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/28/2015 6:40:59 PM)
If I could provide you with a direct quote... what would you say then? Butch

MasterJaguar01 -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/28/2015 6:45:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 first---why do you care? you haven't prompted the thread with any thoughts or reaction to the article and my limited experience is that you are irrationally hostile to Christianity. more importantly, there is nothing in the text of the article in terms of direct quotes by the pope that fully support the article's or the thread's title. being catholic, the pope is well acquainted with Augustine's and Aquinas' conditions for a "just war", which implies Christians being morally/ethically correct in going to, and logistically supporting war, so the odds are pretty good he did not in fact say what you and the huffington post are saying he said. unlike the quakers, amish and a few others, the catholic faith is not pacifist faith and the official position of the catholic church as concerns war is laid out in their catechism, part III, section III safeguarding peace and sub section 2307-2317, the latter of which, 2309-2317 deal with the very topic at hand in a way completely contrary to the supposition of the huffington post. if you are genuinely interested and would like direct quotes of the sections, I trust you can find them online. at this link you can find the original text of his speech and here is the quote you asked: quote: Se tu ti fidi soltanto degli uomini, hai perso. [risate e applausi]. A me fa pensare una sola cosa: gente, dirigenti, imprenditori che si dicono cristiani e fabbricano armi [applausi]. E quello dà un poco di sfiducia. Ma si dicono cristiani! No no padre, io non fabbrico! Soltanto ho i miei investimenti nelle fabbriche di armi. Eh! E perché? Perché gli interessi sono un poco più alti. E anche la doppia faccia è moneta corrente oggi. Dire una cosa e farne un’altra [applausi]. L’ipocrisia. Ma vediamo cosa è successo il secolo scorso. I guess I need to translate if you trust only the men, you lost. [laughter and applauses]. There is just one thing that makes me think: people, managers, business owners, that call themself christians and produce weapons [applauses]. That's what brings distrust. But they call themself christians! "No no father, I don't produce! I just have my investments in weapon's companies." What?! Why is that? "because the interests are a little higher" also a double face is currency today. Say something and do another one [applauses]. The hypocrisy. So let's see what happened the last century. Rick Santorum is going to shit

Owner59 -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/28/2015 7:00:34 PM)
Most of the extreme rightists like Sen. frothy and fox news have turned on the Pope, because the Pope is following the bible. There is a huge difference between "fans" of Jesus and followers of Jesus. Fans say they love Jesus and then act like sarah palin. Followers feed the poor and heal the sick, house the homeless and cloth the naked, like liberals do.

Lucylastic -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/28/2015 7:03:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01 Rick Santorum is going to shit that just made me choke, LOL

CreativeDominant -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/28/2015 8:16:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Most of the extreme rightists like Sen. frothy and fox news have turned on the Pope, because the Pope is following the bible. There is a huge difference between "fans" of Jesus and followers of Jesus. Fans say they love Jesus and then act like sarah palin. Followers feed the poor and heal the sick, house the homeless and cloth the naked, like liberals do. They also believe in God...unlike many of those liberals.

epiphiny43 -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/28/2015 9:20:14 PM)
Doing Jesus bidding is believing in his message a lot more than paying lip service to Jesus and behaving like one of Satan's minions. Guess who gets a Pass on Judgement Day? (Not that I actually believe in a God who condemns some imperfect humans and embraces other imperfect ones.) You can't actually believe in God, the Father of Jesus Christ, if you don't believe what are His directions for how to live. Jesus Was quite clear. Only 'similar minds' agree that you believe in God if you manage to twist your Savior's commandment's into whatever you want to do anyway. The present Pope is a true disciple of Christ, it's an astounding surprise. (Not even close to perfect, but a blessing to the planet) One faux Christians may never recover from. Or grasp. And this is an observation from a poor student of the Dalai Lama.

Real0ne -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/28/2015 9:32:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Most of the extreme rightists like Sen. frothy and fox news have turned on the Pope, because the Pope is following the bible. There is a huge difference between "fans" of Jesus and followers of Jesus. Fans say they love Jesus and then act like sarah palin. Followers feed the poor and heal the sick, house the homeless and cloth the naked, like liberals do. tough subject keeping in mind that Jesus Christ rebelled against the Jews [8D] How does that come into play here...........or not?

MasterJaguar01 -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/28/2015 9:37:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Most of the extreme rightists like Sen. frothy and fox news have turned on the Pope, because the Pope is following the bible. There is a huge difference between "fans" of Jesus and followers of Jesus. Fans say they love Jesus and then act like sarah palin. Followers feed the poor and heal the sick, house the homeless and cloth the naked, like liberals do. tough subject keeping in mind that Jesus Christ rebelled against the Jews [8D] How does that come into play here...........or not? Not a biblical scholar here... But... 1) Jesus WAS a Jew 2) He rebelled against the Jewish Elite, and their evil capitalism (Yes Jesus was a hardcore Socialist) and their turning the Temple into a Marketplace. 3) To simply state that he "rebelled against the Jews" is misleading Unless you know something I don't?

Real0ne -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/28/2015 10:06:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01 quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Most of the extreme rightists like Sen. frothy and fox news have turned on the Pope, because the Pope is following the bible. There is a huge difference between "fans" of Jesus and followers of Jesus. Fans say they love Jesus and then act like sarah palin. Followers feed the poor and heal the sick, house the homeless and cloth the naked, like liberals do. tough subject keeping in mind that Jesus Christ rebelled against the Jews [8D] How does that come into play here...........or not? Not a biblical scholar here... But... 1) Jesus WAS a Jew 2) He rebelled against the Jewish Elite, and their evil capitalism (Yes Jesus was a hardcore Socialist) and their turning the Temple into a Marketplace. 3) To simply state that he "rebelled against the Jews" is misleading Unless you know something I don't? well I have read the bible cover to cover old and new testaments, a good deal of the talmud and torah and compared them. I dont know if I know something you dont or not since we have never discussed this. However I think the quick draw shotgun approach would be to simply look at the differences we can see right in front of us between the teachings of Christianity and the Judaism.

bounty44 -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/29/2015 3:20:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 first---why do you care? you haven't prompted the thread with any thoughts or reaction to the article and my limited experience is that you are irrationally hostile to Christianity. more importantly, there is nothing in the text of the article in terms of direct quotes by the pope that fully support the article's or the thread's title. being catholic, the pope is well acquainted with Augustine's and Aquinas' conditions for a "just war", which implies Christians being morally/ethically correct in going to, and logistically supporting war, so the odds are pretty good he did not in fact say what you and the huffington post are saying he said. unlike the quakers, amish and a few others, the catholic faith is not pacifist faith and the official position of the catholic church as concerns war is laid out in their catechism, part III, section III safeguarding peace and sub section 2307-2317, the latter of which, 2309-2317 deal with the very topic at hand in a way completely contrary to the supposition of the huffington post. if you are genuinely interested and would like direct quotes of the sections, I trust you can find them online. I`m am a Christian and a believer in liberation theology. Who the fuck are you again? I`m not a Catholic but I`m ok with anyone who is a good faith player of any denomination. I`m even ok with Atheists of good will or anyone who isn`t a malfeasant prick, regardless. I also have little respect or time for uber-religious dolts who think they know someone else`s faith better . That kind of Christian is a real jack ass. so i'll rephrase "why do you care? you haven't prompted the thread with any thoughts or reaction to the article and my limited experience is that you are irrationally hostile to some christians." that said---you didn't address the points of the catholic catechism or the very misleading article and thread title. am curious too---what does your "liberation theology" teach you/tell you about how to treat other people? do Matthew 7:12 and Luke 6:31 apply, or Mark 12:31 or do you get to conveniently ignore them when you are talking with or about people with whom you disagree?

bounty44 -> RE: Pope.."Weapons makers/investors can`t call themselves Christians" (6/29/2015 3:24:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub If I could provide you with a direct quote... what would you say then? Butch there were quotes in the article but none of them are consistent with being able to say, or even imply "people who manufacture or invest in the weapons industry cannot call themselves Christian." if there is another quote out there that actually says that, or a series of phrases where that is the obvious and only conclusion, of course you are welcome to share it, but if the pope actually did say that, he is speaking in contravention of many hundreds of years of catholic teaching.

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