Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute

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Lucylastic -> Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/27/2015 4:34:18 PM)
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/may/18/fossil-fuel-companies-getting-10m-a-minute-in-subsidies-says-imf ‘Shocking’ revelation finds $5.3tn subsidy estimate for 2015 is greater than the total health spending of all the world’s governments ossil fuel companies are benefitting from global subsidies of $5.3tn (£3.4tn) a year, equivalent to $10m a minute every day, according to a startling new estimate by the International Monetary Fund. The IMF calls the revelation “shocking” and says the figure is an “extremely robust” estimate of the true cost of fossil fuels. The $5.3tn subsidy estimated for 2015 is greater than the total health spending of all the world’s governments. The vast sum is largely due to polluters not paying the costs imposed on governments by the burning of coal, oil and gas. These include the harm caused to local populations by air pollution as well as to people across the globe affected by the floods, droughts and storms being driven by climate change. Nicholas Stern, an eminent climate economist at the London School of Economics, said: “This very important analysis shatters the myth that fossil fuels are cheap by showing just how huge their real costs are. There is no justification for these enormous subsidies for fossil fuels, which distort markets and damages economies, particularly in poorer countries.” Lord Stern said that even the IMF’s vast subsidy figure was a significant underestimate: “A more complete estimate of the costs due to climate change would show the implicit subsidies for fossil fuels are much bigger even than this report suggests.” The IMF, one of the world’s most respected financial institutions, said that ending subsidies for fossil fuels would cut global carbon emissions by 20%. That would be a giant step towards taming global warming, an issue on which the world has made little progress to date. Ending the subsidies would also slash the number of premature deaths from outdoor air pollution by 50% – about 1.6 million lives a year. More links here http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/05/19/imf-report-on-5-3-trillion-in-energy-subsidies-careful-its-not-quite-what-you-think/ http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy/2015/0519/IMF-report-A-5-trillion-case-for-ending-fossil-fuel-subsidies-video http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7c6512a6-fd27-11e4-b072-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3bNucRFMp Im wondering why this hasnt hit here,

epiphiny43 -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/27/2015 5:13:24 PM)
The political problem is that in many countries removing the subsidies would put most of the lower economic classes on foot or bicycle. Even motorscooters are a big cash drain for those struggling to pay for food now, particularly in mostly barter economic levels. Buses and other improvised mass transit in many countries would become less affordable as well. With food security becoming a life and death issue many places, the social disruption of bringing fossil fuels up to market prices can approach if not cause rebellion. Lagos this week is a small demonstration? The problem for fixed energy use is being addressed as solar is now competitive with central power generation where ever an expensive distribution network is required. By the end of the decade, even close to large power plants it will be competitive. How to transfer this renewable energy economy to the transportation network is waiting on battery technology. Which is a couple of steps behind solar cells, but advancing rapidly. This mass change to fully renewable energy needs to happen fast as the food security issue in many places is being aggravated by ill-considered schemes to use food sources for 'renewable' energy. The true accounting of plant fuel alcohol usually shows more fossil oil used per consumed watt of energy than if oil is refined and burned directly. Which makes food even more expensive than those now in poverty can afford. Much ag land in Africa and S. America is being taken out of local food production and converted by First World investors into plantations growing high value exports to feed the tastes of the EU and America. Locals lose land, jobs and affordable food, the local elite are paid off or become partners in the transformations. China is planning or building major new railroads in Africa and S. America to massively accelerate this globalization to satisfy China's hunger for resources and food by their population and business sector, a few get rich, the bottom of the economy are dispossessed. Much of the accounting by the IMF linked above is on now off-budget expenses and damage. The major supporters for corporate subsidies here won't even admit climate change and it's massive costs and economic penalties is even happening. There is little hope the direct subsidies for fossil fuels won't be redirected to the same corporations as they shift to other energy business models.

Lucylastic -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/27/2015 5:47:09 PM)
This is why I come here, thank you :) The original reason I looked into it was thru a couple of figures popped up...out of nowhere, and it was a left leaning site, so i dug into it a bit deeper. and it led me to the links, it is now a new research project...and not for political reasons altho you cant keep the politics out of it, im more interested in finding out just how bad we are screwed. IM a sick sick puppy to invite myself into it.[:'(]

Sanity -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/27/2015 6:10:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/may/18/fossil-fuel-companies-getting-10m-a-minute-in-subsidies-says-imf ‘Shocking’ revelation finds $5.3tn subsidy estimate for 2015 is greater than the total health spending of all the world’s governments ossil fuel companies are benefitting from global subsidies of $5.3tn (£3.4tn) a year, equivalent to $10m a minute every day, according to a startling new estimate by the International Monetary Fund. The IMF calls the revelation “shocking” and says the figure is an “extremely robust” estimate of the true cost of fossil fuels. The $5.3tn subsidy estimated for 2015 is greater than the total health spending of all the world’s governments. The vast sum is largely due to polluters not paying the costs imposed on governments by the burning of coal, oil and gas. These include the harm caused to local populations by air pollution as well as to people across the globe affected by the floods, droughts and storms being driven by climate change. Nicholas Stern, an eminent climate economist at the London School of Economics, said: “This very important analysis shatters the myth that fossil fuels are cheap by showing just how huge their real costs are. There is no justification for these enormous subsidies for fossil fuels, which distort markets and damages economies, particularly in poorer countries.” Lord Stern said that even the IMF’s vast subsidy figure was a significant underestimate: “A more complete estimate of the costs due to climate change would show the implicit subsidies for fossil fuels are much bigger even than this report suggests.” The IMF, one of the world’s most respected financial institutions, said that ending subsidies for fossil fuels would cut global carbon emissions by 20%. That would be a giant step towards taming global warming, an issue on which the world has made little progress to date. Ending the subsidies would also slash the number of premature deaths from outdoor air pollution by 50% – about 1.6 million lives a year. More links here http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/05/19/imf-report-on-5-3-trillion-in-energy-subsidies-careful-its-not-quite-what-you-think/ http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy/2015/0519/IMF-report-A-5-trillion-case-for-ending-fossil-fuel-subsidies-video http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7c6512a6-fd27-11e4-b072-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3bNucRFMp Im wondering why this hasnt hit here, That bit of leftist drivel assumes that only those who provide fossil fuels benefit from the use of fossil fuels, which is absurd. The premise is stupid beyond words. The worlds poor would suffer immeasurable were affordable energy to be ripped out from underneath them And as always with such leftist schemes, women, children and minorities are always the hardest hit

JVoV -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/27/2015 6:24:34 PM)
Hemp seed oil is a biodiesel, it was the first fuel used by Henry Ford. Sustainable renewable energy, without depleting food sources, using much less land for the same fuel output than corn.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/27/2015 6:52:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Hemp seed oil is a biodiesel, it was the first fuel used by Henry Ford. Sustainable renewable energy, without depleting food sources, using much less land for the same fuel output than corn. Hemp Is EBIL and of the DEBIL!!! [:D] I think industrial hemp has already started making it's comeback. There was a guest on the local afternoon drive time talk radio show who pointed out the irony of there being two potential amendments to the Ohio Constitution legalizing marijuana, but industrial hemp still being illegal. For the record, one marijuana group wants the Amendment to codify that marijuana use (medical or recreational) is legal and that there would be 6 "pot farms" in the State (locations were specified). I would vote against that. The other amendment, I would vote in favor of, would legalize use (medical and recreational) and growing of marijuana.

JVoV -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/27/2015 7:00:28 PM)
All I know is that more people in Florida voted for medical marijuana than either of the jacktards that ran for governor.

Lucylastic -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/27/2015 7:03:44 PM)
I wish Canada would get with it regarding hemp( and a whole lot of other things) but with the crazy bastards we have in power now...not likely....ugh

Sanity -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/27/2015 7:41:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Hemp seed oil is a biodiesel, it was the first fuel used by Henry Ford. Sustainable renewable energy, without depleting food sources, using much less land for the same fuel output than corn. How would hemp not compete with other crops.

JVoV -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/27/2015 7:49:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Hemp seed oil is a biodiesel, it was the first fuel used by Henry Ford. Sustainable renewable energy, without depleting food sources, using much less land for the same fuel output than corn. How would hemp not compete with other crops. Hemp is just mellow like that, bro. It just lets the other crops do their own thing. Oh. You want like facts & stuff? http://www.hempcar.org/hempfacts.shtml Corn is the enemy!!!

MrRodgers -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/27/2015 8:43:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Hemp seed oil is a biodiesel, it was the first fuel used by Henry Ford. Sustainable renewable energy, without depleting food sources, using much less land for the same fuel output than corn. How would hemp not compete with other crops. Hemp is just mellow like that, bro. It just lets the other crops do their own thing. Oh. You want like facts & stuff? http://www.hempcar.org/hempfacts.shtml Corn is the enemy!!! Well then with all of that, it's obvious why it's illegal. Hemp is way too much competition for all of that other stuff. You want industry to actually take all of those further financial and R & D risks on hemp ? (the investor class NOT the so-called progressive, would regulate the shit out of it despite the history) No, I am western capitalist and am entitled to the profits I make now thanks to all of the risks taken on and research done by all of those that came before me on all of that other stuff. Plus, with all of the million$ of free speech [sic] I have in the bank, I am entitled to 'speak' all I want to my reps to get the necessary laws passed to protect my corn and other various subsidies to make all of that other stuff...that hemp would replace.

Sanity -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/27/2015 9:04:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Hemp seed oil is a biodiesel, it was the first fuel used by Henry Ford. Sustainable renewable energy, without depleting food sources, using much less land for the same fuel output than corn. How would hemp not compete with other crops. Hemp is just mellow like that, bro. It just lets the other crops do their own thing. Oh. You want like facts & stuff? http://www.hempcar.org/hempfacts.shtml Corn is the enemy!!! Your hemp link seems really biased, a lot of fantastic claims but there arent any reasonable references linked Ive always known that corn based ethanol was bad karma, you can find threads on here going WAY back where Ive railed against using food for fuel

JVoV -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/27/2015 9:26:10 PM)
Unfortunately, I think any link I could provide with facts & data would be equally as biased. Or pure hippie propoganda.

JVoV -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/27/2015 9:38:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic I wish Canada would get with it regarding hemp( and a whole lot of other things) but with the crazy bastards we have in power now...not likely....ugh Lucy, http://www.hempoilcan.com/why-hemp/general-hemp-faq/ Is that not legal in Canada? Seems to claim to be.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/28/2015 6:55:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV All I know is that more people in Florida voted for medical marijuana than either of the jacktards that ran for governor. That just means that marijuana is more important than politics! I wouldn't be surprised if that happened in damn near every state, unless a politician ran on giving out free weed... [:D]

Tkman117 -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/28/2015 7:13:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic I wish Canada would get with it regarding hemp( and a whole lot of other things) but with the crazy bastards we have in power now...not likely....ugh Lucy, http://www.hempoilcan.com/why-hemp/general-hemp-faq/ Is that not legal in Canada? Seems to claim to be. Medically it's legal, but recreationally it isn't. That being said, it's not like people are thrown in prison for it they way they are in the US. The worst Ive heard happen is people are given a fine, not to mention we seem to have a social mentality where cops seem to not really care all that much about pot, and instead focus more on the hardcore drugs. But this is coming from a guy who's only done it a couple times and has had almost no encounters with the police on these issues, just second hand hearsay.

tweakabelle -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/28/2015 7:48:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV All I know is that more people in Florida voted for medical marijuana than either of the jacktards that ran for governor. That just means that marijuana is more important than politics! I wouldn't be surprised if that happened in damn near every state, unless a politician ran on giving out free weed... [:D] Why don't you put that to the test DS? I'll vote for you if that's your platform! [:D]

HunterCA -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/28/2015 8:54:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/may/18/fossil-fuel-companies-getting-10m-a-minute-in-subsidies-says-imf ‘Shocking’ revelation finds $5.3tn subsidy estimate for 2015 is greater than the total health spending of all the world’s governments ossil fuel companies are benefitting from global subsidies of $5.3tn (£3.4tn) a year, equivalent to $10m a minute every day, according to a startling new estimate by the International Monetary Fund. The IMF calls the revelation “shocking” and says the figure is an “extremely robust” estimate of the true cost of fossil fuels. The $5.3tn subsidy estimated for 2015 is greater than the total health spending of all the world’s governments. The vast sum is largely due to polluters not paying the costs imposed on governments by the burning of coal, oil and gas. These include the harm caused to local populations by air pollution as well as to people across the globe affected by the floods, droughts and storms being driven by climate change. Nicholas Stern, an eminent climate economist at the London School of Economics, said: “This very important analysis shatters the myth that fossil fuels are cheap by showing just how huge their real costs are. There is no justification for these enormous subsidies for fossil fuels, which distort markets and damages economies, particularly in poorer countries.” Lord Stern said that even the IMF’s vast subsidy figure was a significant underestimate: “A more complete estimate of the costs due to climate change would show the implicit subsidies for fossil fuels are much bigger even than this report suggests.” The IMF, one of the world’s most respected financial institutions, said that ending subsidies for fossil fuels would cut global carbon emissions by 20%. That would be a giant step towards taming global warming, an issue on which the world has made little progress to date. Ending the subsidies would also slash the number of premature deaths from outdoor air pollution by 50% – about 1.6 million lives a year. More links here http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/05/19/imf-report-on-5-3-trillion-in-energy-subsidies-careful-its-not-quite-what-you-think/ http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy/2015/0519/IMF-report-A-5-trillion-case-for-ending-fossil-fuel-subsidies-video http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7c6512a6-fd27-11e4-b072-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3bNucRFMp Im wondering why this hasnt hit here, That bit of leftist drivel assumes that only those who provide fossil fuels benefit from the use of fossil fuels, which is absurd. The premise is stupid beyond words. The worlds poor would suffer immeasurable were affordable energy to be ripped out from underneath them And as always with such leftist schemes, women, children and minorities are always the hardest hit So, we make up storms caused by global warming. As we did with hurricanes which has been proven complete idiocy. Then when storms cause damage we atribute that to the made up storms, further atribute that to fossil fuel use, and apply the costs for repair of the damage as a government subsidy. I wonder who teaches that math? Well really I dont. It's leftist idiocy.

Sanity -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/28/2015 9:05:31 AM)
Whats funny (insane maniacal laughter funny) about Lucys whining is how her article claims that the fossil fuels industry is "subsidized" because it isnt yet subjected to massive new crippling taxes... Welcome to Newspeak And they pretend that the corporations will pay those new taxes, rather than pass them down to the consumer Its Orwellian They claim they want to tax "evil corporations" No they dont. They want to tax YOU They want to Gruber you, again. Because they really think you are that stupid.

Lucylastic -> RE: Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute (5/28/2015 9:09:00 AM)
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