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More Racist Slurs Exposed - 6/29/2014 10:24:13 AM   
Kirata


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An armchair psychoanalyst explains...

In the United States today, the names Apache, Comanche, Chinook, Lakota, Cheyenne and Kiowa apply not only to Indian tribes but also to military helicopters. Add in the Black Hawk, named for a leader of the Sauk tribe. Then there is the Tomahawk, a low-altitude missile, and a drone named for an Indian chief, Gray Eagle. Operation Geronimo was the end of Osama bin Laden. Why do we name our battles and weapons after people we have vanquished? For the same reason the Washington team is the Redskins and my hometown Red Sox go to Cleveland to play the Indians and to Atlanta to play the Braves: because the myth of the worthy native adversary is more palatable than the reality ~Washington Post

The "myth" of the worthy adversary? How demeaning is that?

File category: Foot In Mouth Awards.

K.
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 6/29/2014 2:30:35 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		I'd suggest that Washington Post clueless wonder have a look at some of the writing done by Andrew Jackson. The concept of the worthy adversary is one of those concepts that is almost hard wired into the human psyche.. at least until attempts to make all PC start redefining words to suit their agenda.

Jackson had nothing against the native american tribes but the fact that his country, his people, needed the resources. He considered Tecumseh a "worthy adversary" but it was my tribe vs your tribe over who controls the resources.

It all comes down to force used in deciding who gets the prize. It was true for Xerxes and Alexander. And it is true for Putin and Obama.

For sports teams, and the ritualized competition they symbolize, you pick big fierce names as motivators. "Go Wolverines", "Bash em Braves".... Yeah, you pick the big tough mascot. How is using the name of a foe that lives in memory as so hard to defeat an insult when their name continues to be used to symbolize tough, hard, competition?

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 6/29/2014 2:36:40 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


An armchair psychoanalyst explains...

In the United States today, the names Apache, Comanche, Chinook, Lakota, Cheyenne and Kiowa apply not only to Indian tribes but also to military helicopters. Add in the Black Hawk, named for a leader of the Sauk tribe. Then there is the Tomahawk, a low-altitude missile, and a drone named for an Indian chief, Gray Eagle. Operation Geronimo was the end of Osama bin Laden. Why do we name our battles and weapons after people we have vanquished? For the same reason the Washington team is the Redskins and my hometown Red Sox go to Cleveland to play the Indians and to Atlanta to play the Braves: because the myth of the worthy native adversary is more palatable than the reality ~Washington Post

The "myth" of the worthy adversary? How demeaning is that?

File category: Foot In Mouth Awards.

K.


Still. Braves is one thing. It's hard not to see Redskins as less than praise.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 6/30/2014 3:04:04 AM   
SadistDave


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quote:

the myth of the worthy native adversary
???

MYTH?

Apparently the author has never heard of Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce. That particular myth's tactics were being taught at West Point at least until the mid 1970's. They might still be...

-SD-

_____________________________

To whom it may concern: Just because someone is in a position of authority they do not get to make up their own facts. In spite of what some people here (who shall remain nameless) want to claim, someone over the age of 18 is NOT a fucking minor!

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 6/30/2014 6:09:32 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline 		The worthy native adversary is a romanticized myth developed by the victors to look back at the native genocide in the Americas through rose colored glasses. In all of our 20th C wars and currently we denigrate the enemy through comedy, slurs and propaganda. It is really pretty much the nature of boys fighting in a war and the advantage for Media to sell to advertisers.

(in reply to SadistDave)
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 6/30/2014 8:43:23 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Right, Native Americans never warred, they were perfectly peaceful with one another since time began. They were strict vegetarians too, and even practiced womens rights along with every other liberal ideal... They even practiced the ideal form of socialism

Thats right, didnt even trade things

And Europeans, why, THEY never knew invasion or conquest or oppression

Always the bad guy, those nasty evil white devils...

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 6/30/2014 8:48:42 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Why do you believe that stupid shit you always spew?

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 6/30/2014 9:15:10 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Right, Native Americans never warred, they were perfectly peaceful with one another since time began. They were strict vegetarians too, and even practiced womens rights along with every other liberal ideal... They even practiced the ideal form of socialism

Thats right, didnt even trade things

And Europeans, why, THEY never knew invasion or conquest or oppression

Always the bad guy, those nasty evil white devils...

What are you talking about? What does this have to do with anything anyone is discussing?

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 6/30/2014 9:58:18 AM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Right, Native Americans never warred, they were perfectly peaceful with one another since time began. They were strict vegetarians too, and even practiced womens rights along with every other liberal ideal... They even practiced the ideal form of socialism

Thats right, didnt even trade things

And Europeans, why, THEY never knew invasion or conquest or oppression

Always the bad guy, those nasty evil white devils...

What a dumb ass rant! The issue is how we view the native Americans we conquered and by extension how we view our adversaries today. Go back and read the OP. Out loud if it will help.

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 6/30/2014 10:08:58 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

The worthy native adversary is a romanticized myth developed by the victors ...



I'm wondering what you think is mythical about the first Americans being worthy opponents?

Unless I'm reading you wrong, the direct converse would be that native Americans were push-overs; easy to beat and white people just embellished to make themselves seem more fierce and brave?







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 6/30/2014 10:47:15 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		We were beating them while engaged in a civil war, as a sideline. We had gatling guns and all sorts of stuff. They were horridly outclassed.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DaddySatyr)
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 6/30/2014 3:04:34 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Just noting; the Indian Wars were going well before the War of Northern Aggression (Civil War to you Yankees.... evil grin)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creek_War
(The Red Stick Clan of the Creek allied with the British during the War of 1812)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creek_War_of_1836

This led to the policy of moving the Native American tribes out of settlement areas and off to the Oklahoma Territories which had been brought under U.S. control by the Louisiana Purchase.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Dancing_Rabbit_Creek

Later, there were the Apache Wars which started in the 1840s with the Mexican-American War. The Apache were allied with Mexico. The Apache Wars actually kept going off and on until the 1920s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Wars

Trivia: The Thompson Sub-machine Gun was originally marketed as a ranch defense weapon during the Apache Wars.

The wars between the Native American nations and the U.S.A. have always seemed a similar conflict, to me, of the Gallic Wars between the Celtic Tribes and Rome. A clash of warrior nations with organized armies. You can respect and admire a warrior; but disciplined troops tend to win in the end.
Whether you see it right or wrong; a thorough look at the times shows a conflict of nations.





< Message edited by MercTech -- 6/30/2014 3:08:45 PM >

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 6/30/2014 4:33:11 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


An armchair psychoanalyst explains...

In the United States today, the names Apache, Comanche, Chinook, Lakota, Cheyenne and Kiowa apply not only to Indian tribes but also to military helicopters. Add in the Black Hawk, named for a leader of the Sauk tribe. Then there is the Tomahawk, a low-altitude missile, and a drone named for an Indian chief, Gray Eagle. Operation Geronimo was the end of Osama bin Laden. Why do we name our battles and weapons after people we have vanquished? For the same reason the Washington team is the Redskins and my hometown Red Sox go to Cleveland to play the Indians and to Atlanta to play the Braves: because the myth of the worthy native adversary is more palatable than the reality ~Washington Post

The "myth" of the worthy adversary? How demeaning is that?

File category: Foot In Mouth Awards.

K.



I don't know if this is really comparable, since they're using actual names of tribes and people, which are not and have never been considered slurs.

I would question using the term "Operation Geronimo" to get Bin Laden. Does that mean that the US government thinks Osama Bin Laden was like Geronimo?

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 6/30/2014 5:59:15 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


An armchair psychoanalyst explains...

In the United States today, the names Apache, Comanche, Chinook, Lakota, Cheyenne and Kiowa apply not only to Indian tribes but also to military helicopters. Add in the Black Hawk, named for a leader of the Sauk tribe. Then there is the Tomahawk, a low-altitude missile, and a drone named for an Indian chief, Gray Eagle. Operation Geronimo was the end of Osama bin Laden. Why do we name our battles and weapons after people we have vanquished? For the same reason the Washington team is the Redskins and my hometown Red Sox go to Cleveland to play the Indians and to Atlanta to play the Braves: because the myth of the worthy native adversary is more palatable than the reality ~Washington Post

The "myth" of the worthy adversary? How demeaning is that?

File category: Foot In Mouth Awards.

K.



I don't know if this is really comparable, since they're using actual names of tribes and people, which are not and have never been considered slurs.

I would question using the term "Operation Geronimo" to get Bin Laden. Does that mean that the US government thinks Osama Bin Laden was like Geronimo?


More like it was the kind of operation it would take someone like Geronimo to carry out.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Zonie63)
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 7/1/2014 8:49:05 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

The worthy native adversary is a romanticized myth developed by the victors ...



I'm wondering what you think is mythical about the first Americans being worthy opponents?

Unless I'm reading you wrong, the direct converse would be that native Americans were push-overs; easy to beat and white people just embellished to make themselves seem more fierce and brave?







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

The myth of the worthy native adversary directly contradicts the myth of white superiority which has been a motivating force in the history of Western civilization.

Discounting our Civil War and our late entry into WW1 there has not been since 1847 any war that I can think of in which the United States was not at war with or invaded a nation of color.

A second point: every American soldier is trained (propagandized) to believe his adversary is inferior and worthy of killing.

Third point: home front propaganda always dwells on the evil and savagery of the enemy, or else reduces his competence through satire and humor. I give you Charlie Chaplin's The Great Dictator as just one example of many.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 7/1/2014 8:50:25 AM >

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 7/1/2014 12:11:40 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: SadistDave

Apparently the author has never heard of Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce. That particular myth's tactics were being taught at West Point at least until the mid 1970's. They might still be...

Since joseph was not a war chief just what tactics was wp teaching? Have you a clue what you are talking about?


(in reply to SadistDave)
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 7/1/2014 12:16:10 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

We were beating them while engaged in a civil war, as a sideline. We had gatling guns and all sorts of stuff. They were horridly outclassed.


While they may have been outclassed in the technology sector(telegraph,automatic weapons) they consistantly beat the u.s. army in combat. The u.s. army excelled and was usually successful when they attacked women and children not so much when they dealt with armed grown men.

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 7/1/2014 12:18:09 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Right, Native Americans never warred, they were perfectly peaceful with one another since time began. They were strict vegetarians too, and even practiced womens rights along with every other liberal ideal... They even practiced the ideal form of socialism

Thats right, didnt even trade things

And Europeans, why, THEY never knew invasion or conquest or oppression

Always the bad guy, those nasty evil white devils...


What the fuck has this got to do with anything?
Oh wait it is yet one more opportunity for you to open your mouth and change feet.

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 7/1/2014 1:18:50 PM   
epiphiny43


Posts: 688
Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: SadistDave

Apparently the author has never heard of Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce. That particular myth's tactics were being taught at West Point at least until the mid 1970's. They might still be...

Since joseph was not a war chief just what tactics was wp teaching? Have you a clue what you are talking about?



If you have no grasp of the Nez Perce history, Wikipedia is, as usual, educational. It's a lot less embarrassing to read an entry or two there than berate people discussing what you are ignorant about. A whole community of all ages out-maneuvered, out fought and out thought a militarily superior and far more mobile force of the US Army for far longer than any one ever imagined possible. As the major surviving leader, Chief Joseph is the convenient personification of the actions of the group. What is taught isn't dependent on the names, the actions were brilliant and still taught as superb tactical and strategic maneuver.

The OP makes more sense if one doesn't read 'Myth' as a falsehood or lie, but takes the more useful and relevant Joseph Campbell use of the word as a culturally significant story or concept that guides thinking and world perception. From the earliest conflicts of the 1500s, Aboriginal Americans were considered formidable adversaries.
To take a word that identifies the group as emblematic of your team's competitive nature and accomplishments is about the least possible insulting use of a group label imaginable.

(in reply to thompsonx)
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RE: More Racist Slurs Exposed - 7/1/2014 7:31:33 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: epiphiny43
If you have no grasp of the Nez Perce history, Wikipedia is, as usual, educational.


Wiki is unreliable at best, only a moron would use it as a primary source. If you are interested in the chase of joseph by
olie otis the one armed hammer into the anvil of nelson miles "chief joseph" ISBN-10: 0061136085;is a pretty good read. It details how joseph was the logistics chief and not the war chief. It also details how joseph held miles in place with chatter while the war chief and all of the warriors left and crossed the border into canada.


It's a lot less embarrassing to read an entry or two there than berate people discussing what you are ignorant about.

Since you have no clue as to what you are talking about you are hardly in a position to comment on my knowledge.



A whole community of all ages out-maneuvered, out fought and out thought a militarily superior and far more mobile force of the US Army for far longer than any one ever imagined possible.

Please tell me of the engagements between the u.s. army and the band of nez perce in the 1800 mile chase?


As the major surviving leader, Chief Joseph is the convenient personifoliication of the actions of the group. What is taught isn't dependent on the names, the actions were brilliant and still taught as superb tactical and strategic maneuver.

Probably want to get a dictionary and figure out what tactical and stategic mean. Because your post show that you currently do not.





(in reply to epiphiny43)
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