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Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 8:34:32 AM

darkinshadows

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There have been a couple of posts recently, with alot of people seeing need as a negative emotion. I didn't want to hijack the other threads, as I really want to discuss 'need' specifically and not get tied up (even though that is highly enjoyable) with other wordings.

We all need something. Food, and water to survive. Air to breathe. Sex to pro-create. Of course there is that comfort need. Chocolate is a comfort need. Good wine and fine food. Religion can be seen as either a survival need, or a comfort one - depending on where you stand on such issues.

In a recent thread - those that 'need' within BDSM - was decribed as 'settling' ...a 'flaw'... that it is indeed a negative desire.

I can function within everyday life as a person and as me. I can cook and clean - get the car fixed, change a lightbulb, I can dress - I can survive (cue song). But I do 'need' Him - else my BDSM relationship cannot exist. I could just go out and meet anyone and have a relationship. But to fulfil my potential - to reach and cross my limits - I need Him. I am not embarressed to admit that need. I am weak so I need. I am not a weak person, however, because I need. I am not flawed because I need Him, I am flawed anyway... perfection is what drives that need.

To have a BDSM relationship I do 'need' a dominant. Then you meet someone and that need is fulfilled - it becomes a desire. A desire to serve, a desire to submit, a desire to grow through him. I then have no wants, for my wants are fulfilled by the desire. Its not a negative weakness to need - it is honestly admitting that a BDSM relationship cannot function with a single person. It is a shared experience.

Why do people feel need is negative?

Why do people fear need and deny it?

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

Post #: 1

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 8:42:26 AM

Caretakr

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I have had the past misfortune of dealing with emotional vampires. These women were black holes of negativity and insecurity that could never be fed.

As much as one tried to help them to heal, they would never make the effort to overcome the denial of thier illness..All they wanted to do was feed, until you were drained dry.

And finally, in self defense of my very survival, I had to let them go. And I became yet another demon to add thier thier pantheon of martyed victimhood.

Needless to say, I run screaming from these when I see them now.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 2

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 8:48:32 AM

MsIncognito

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Need in and of itself is not negative. As you said, we all need something. Need becomes negative when we place the repsonsibility for meeting those needs on the shoulders of others, IMO. I need lots of things but I am solely responsible for seeing that those needs are met, even in a relationship. If I 'settle' (I know, negative connotation) for a poor relationship because I've decided it's better to have some of my needs met than none then that is a choice I need to take responsibility for. It's not right to then foist the responsibility for meeting my needs on the other person and blame them because they aren't meeting all of my needs. It's my responsibility to either accept the situation I chose for myself or leave that situation in search of a better one.

I think Caretakr's point is also a good one. I dated an emotional vampire once and it was one of the most emotionally and psychologically exhausting experiences in my life and one that I've vowed not to repeat.

< Message edited by MsIncognito -- 7/10/2006 8:51:49 AM >

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 3

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 8:49:20 AM

darkinshadows

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Maybe they did feed from you, but you perpetuated their hunger - which as you have expressed - you now run from. But in feeding their hunger, that makes you no less blameless than them.

But that has nothing to do with the 'need' to be with a partner within a BDSM setting. You need a partner, because without one, you cannot function in a BDSM setting. You cannot torture nothingness. You cannot gain pleasure from the invisable. You may want a BDSM partner... you may desire one. But ultimately you need a submissive or slave or some kind of s-type to make a BDSM relationship.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Caretakr)

Post #: 4

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 8:53:12 AM

Caretakr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

Maybe they did feed from you, but you perpetuated their hunger - which as you have expressed - you now run from. But in feeding their hunger, that makes you no less blameless than them.

But that has nothing to do with the 'need' to be with a partner within a BDSM setting. You need a partner, because without one, you cannot function in a BDSM setting. You cannot torture nothingness. You cannot gain pleasure from the invisable. You may want a BDSM partner... you may desire one. But ultimately you need a submissive or slave or some kind of s-type to make a BDSM relationship.

Peace and Rapture

Incorrect, I refused to feed them. And they became ever more demanding and dramatic as I did so.

When pure need degenerates to the point that it cares only for itself-it is negative. I require replensihment, as my due for giving of myself. If that responsibility is refused, I refuse a relationship.

< Message edited by Caretakr -- 7/10/2006 8:56:00 AM >

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 5

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 9:10:54 AM

sleazybutterfly

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I know for me there is a difference in need and needy. Before I had faced what I have, I was needy in the bad way. Meaning, I felt I needed a Sir for validation of sorts of whom I was. I existed of course, but not as the slave/sub I wanted to be. The bad thing about this need was that it made me settle for less than what I know now I deserved in order to get the need fulfilled.

Now, I need to submit..but I am not needy. I do need my emotional needs met, and that might be too much for some Sirs to deal with. What I mean is, I need to know that I am cared for and loved. This is not them coming to me three million times a day and telling me. It is a kind word, maybe cuddling, a look in his eye..things along those lines.

I do know that I don't need someone any more to make me what I am. A sub/slave is still one whether they have a Master or not. Just as I am no less bisexual because I don't have a woman lover. A Master does help in me being able to fulfill my need to serve and to please...just like a good woman gives me a chance to enjoy the benefits of being bisexual.

I think that needing is a wonderul thing, it helps us search out and find what emotionally and physically will bring us the most pleasure. I think it becomes a problem when it becomes such a cloudy thing for the person that they allow themselves to be sucked in by the promise of all of those things, instead of using all of their judgement skills in the situation.

A needy sub/slave will serve anyone that comes along for validation... a sub/slave that needs will search out the one that fits everything they know it will take to make them the most complete in their lives, both as a woman/man and a sub/slave. I think it would be the same for a Dom.. if he is needy..he would take any sub that came along in order to feel like a Dom...but.. if he needs one..he will search the hundreds until the one that fills all the he requires is found, the one that makes him complete.

Respectfully, Andrea

_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 6

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 9:15:16 AM

Caretakr

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sleazybutterfly wrote:

quote:

I think it would be the same for a Dom.. if he is needy..he would take any sub that came along in order to feel like a Dom...but.. if he needs one..he will search the hundreds until the one that fills all the he requires is found, the one that makes him complete.

Bingo!

Which is why I take a long term view of this, and have a clear vision of what is required to fullfill my need- rather than needines. I realize that it will take time, and very clear communication of my inner self to find that met-like cleaves unto like.

(in reply to sleazybutterfly)

Post #: 7

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 9:17:37 AM

darkinshadows

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Geez Andrea - you are fantastic, you know that huh?

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to sleazybutterfly)

Post #: 8

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 9:40:11 AM

LaTigresse

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Okay, forgive me if I get too wordy. I have the day off and alot of uninterupted time to think about some really good thought provoking threads.
I was struck in another thread about the negative feelings I have for the word need in a relationship and how quick I am to distance myself from it. This new thread caused me to really think about it.
I dislike clingy needy emotional vampires also. People, that no matter how many times you try and help them help themself, they constantly draw drama into their lives. It is always negative and of course always someone else's fault and responsibility. My mother is like that and that is the reason we no longer have any sort of relationship.
However I began to realize that this point of view discolours my interpretation of the word "need".
As stated before there are things we all need in varying degrees to live. So then I started thinking, why is it that some of us have such a negative, almost scared idea of the word in regards to relationships and others view it as a vital part?
For me I realize it is weakness. Weakness and a history of destruction of trust in relationships. I remember a time when I wanted a relationship that I would feel I did really need that other person. Then, people being what people are, mistakes are made, promises made and broken.......etc etc etc.......feelings got hurt deeply and the armour starts to build. The self defense of "I don't NEED anyone!" I began to feel that to need someone would be a weakness on my part and that is one thing I can not afford to be. Or, in some of our cases, an emotionally unstable person latches on with a deathgrip and emotionally sucks you dry. That also causes the self defense mechanism to turn on. Either way, to survive, we close parts of ourselves off to ignore the initial healthy human desire to need and be needed. I know I sure don't want to expose my soft underbelly, spill my emotional guts just to have someone treat them like yesterdays garbage.
There is no easy answer to the problem of how to have a healthy relationship, have that "need" without opening ourselves up to alot of potential pain. Some of us tend to bounce back from being hurt more easily than others. Some of us just become alot more wary and you will have to work alot harder to find the cracks in the armour. Some of us become so badly damaged we substitute other things to feed that need. Things that are less scary. Some never do and self destruct.
Of all that rambling I have come to the conclusion that I shouldn't think needing someone is a bad thing, it's in the WHY you need them that I have become so cautious.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Caretakr)

Post #: 9

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 9:52:46 AM

darkinshadows

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From: UK
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I have always seen emotional vampires as wanting - never needing. Yes, they perceive their desire is a need. That they need to feed to survive - but what they dont actually need to feed to live. They want it. Need is something you cannot do without to gain the end result. Living, breathing, a BDSM relationship, a marriage... all these things need something else to make them what it is. Being an emotional vampire isnt a need - its a want. They want support, they want pain, they want people to support and feel sorry for them. But reality is - no one can help them or save them - they have to do that themselves.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 10

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 9:53:51 AM

IronBear

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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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As I see it, Humans have a variety of needs. Food, Sex, Protection from Attack/Defence from Attack, Protection from the elements/Warmth, Housing and clothes, Belief of something greater (Religion either organised or personal ~ Jung: Archetypes), Happiness, Comfort and Comforts, Companionship (Human and/or non human), Health/Treatment of illness and injury.

When a Need is lacking and the means of attaining it are lacking, the resultant excessive focus on that need may to some be seen as negative (By the actions of the needs) or it may be seen as positive by others (again by the actions of the needy in their positive attempts to remedy their need). here it really depends on how a needs person approaches their need as to how it is perceived. E.G. A starving person who is begging and making no attempt to find food may be seen as negative whilst another starvig person who is doing all they are able to satisify their need or find a way of doing so (perhaps looking for work further from home) may be seen as positive.

Certainly in the annals of human history, need has spured great advances and changes in communities so as to alleviat that need. Withing communities such as BDSM, there are people who need specific things such as a compatable Master or slave and due to the local climate this may or may not be achievable. It is however necessary to differentiate between Need and Want. I NEED a specific sum of monies to become debt free and own my own home. To achieve this and other dreams, I WANT a multimillion dollar lottery win. The former is with due dilligence, work and reasoable luck and health certainly achievable in a set period of time. The former is about 1 in 20 million gamble which is fun to partake in but not enough to sit week in and week out in the desperate hope of winning. I would probably be found dead from malneutritian were I to pin all my hopes on a large lottery win. We all have Needs and Wants, just let's keep them seperate and focus on what is necessary and not on what may be if................

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 11

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 10:02:09 AM

juliaoceania

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I think I made my position clear on those other threads... We have different types of needs as organisms to run on an optimal level. Maslow's Hierarchy of needs is a psychological theory about needs and how to place them. If you want to get technical, you only need food and water to live, and you can even survive without a roof over your head as long as you won't freeze. Look the the Kung! (otherwise known as the Bushmen of Africa), they will show you how little your physical needs are... the thing is the less people have physically, the more they need each other emotionally and socially. The more they rely on each other seemingly.

As an organism I can run my body on 6 or so glasses of water a day, or even less. My body will survive this treatment on the short term.. long term things are not going to run so well because I am not giving my body all the water it needs. I am not giving it the optimal amount of water. I need love and affection. I need sex. I desire someone that can give me both of these things in one person. I can live for a time without one of these things, but I will not be living in my optimal situation. I will be healthier and happier as an organism if I have the optimal situation.

Some needs are more apparent than other needs, some needs have to be satisified immediately and take precident over other needs. Just because it is a lower order need on the scale doesn't mean it isn't valid.

As far as love is concerned (the love I have for my mate). I love in a submissive way. I relate to my partner in an optimal way for me in a Ds dynamic.. because this is the way I love a man, then it is a need for me...

Just my thoughts, could be wrong I suppose.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 12

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 10:18:01 AM

MsIncognito

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Your mention of Maslow reminded me of a thread I started a long time ago about BDSM as a need vs BDSM as a want. At some point in that thread some astute person pointed out that whether one views BDSM as a need or want will very likely depend on what level of need BDSM is fulfilling for them. If someone uses BDSM as a way to have more basic needs met (like love) then they're more likely to see it as a need. If someone uses BDSM to fulfil higher order needs (like self actualization) then they're more likely to see it as a want. Just thought I'd throw that out there for the helluvit.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 13

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 10:24:41 AM

juliaoceania

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I have had self actualizing moments, and sex had nothing to do with them... yet.

Nor did my relationships with anyone else.. it was an internal thing

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 7/10/2006 10:25:14 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to MsIncognito)

Post #: 14

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 11:51:01 AM

DesertRat

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.

< Message edited by DesertRat -- 7/10/2006 11:55:09 AM >

_____________________________

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro--Hunter S. Thompson
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide!--Chief Dead St. Knockout, 1933, Liverpool
Damn the crops. I'll only find peace at the end of a rope.--Winston Van Loo, 1911

(in reply to Caretakr)

Post #: 15

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 12:15:31 PM

fyrekittyn

Posts: 282
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: Memphis, TN
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I am a recovered emotional vampress. Much of my problem had to do with a chemical imbalance in the brain, which is now treated with medication (god, I love my meds). The rest, I had to change how I behaved and how I thought. It was *hard*. I drained people to the edge. I still have a lot of drama in my life, but it is manageable. I don't let the drama take over and dwell on it. Sometimes you just have to strap in, hold on, and ride the rollercoaster of life. I still crave human contact. But my happiness doesn't depend on it anymore. I create my own happiness through what I do and what I accomplish. I have needs. I need a D/s relationship. But I am not going to have a D/s relationship with anybody I stumble across. I am lucky to have found a Dom that I can relate to well. We have similar ways of thinking, and we look at the lifestyle the same way. There are still times when I have to catch myself before I freak out and inject more drama into my life. But, that's why I keep reminding myself of what I was, and what I am now.

_____________________________

Whip me, spank me, beat me, fuck me, all if it and more!
~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh, come on now. You can hit harder! *THWACK* OW! BASTARD! See, I was right!
~~~~~~~~~~~
fyrekittyn - the sweet, innocent, angelic, virgin princess!

(in reply to DesertRat)

Post #: 16

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 12:42:04 PM

sleazybutterfly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

Geez Andrea - you are fantastic, you know that huh?

Peace and Rapture

*smiles* Would it seem too conceited if at this point in my life after all of the crap I have been thru to get here, I said "Yes"?

Respectfully, Andrea

_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 17

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 1:51:07 PM

iliv2servher

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quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

In a recent thread - those that 'need' within BDSM - was decribed as 'settling' ...a 'flaw'... that it is indeed a negative desire.

Yes, the thread was "Need vs. Want." These terms are very subjective, but I would have to say that I personally find the words, need, needy, and needful to be a negative, and serve to symbolize a loss of control; whereas want and desire represent something that is positive and can illicit some form of action. Need indicates something that is taking us over, and suggests that we have no say in the outcome, whereas want and desire empowers us to action.

There is much power in the spoken and written word, and how each one of us defines a particular word in the chronicle of our own life path often influences the outcome of that life. It is, therefore, of particular importance that we know and understand the definition of those words which we use to define ourselves.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 18

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 2:15:33 PM

IronBear

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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: iliv2servher

There is much power in the spoken and written word, and how each one of us defines a particular word in the chronicle of our own life path often influences the outcome of that life. It is, therefore, of particular importance that we know and understand the definition of those words which we use to define ourselves.

here I would disagree in as much that with such wrrds a Need and Needy, they are descriptive and it in the context they are used which they will seem to be either positive or negative. I rather fancy it is more important to:

Used such words carefully in a positive manner.
Understand how you define them in the context of your own situation.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to iliv2servher)

Post #: 19

RE: Negativity of Need. - 7/10/2006 2:26:06 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
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I need - as a submissive personality it goes against my soul to 'want' because what I 'want' is of less relevance than what the Master wants. Want is selfish. Does that make Master selfish?... In a respect yes, but in my head and mind, his selfishness is what drives me and it isn't a negative emotion. He wants me and that is a wonderful thing to know. I need him, because without him, my submission is pointless.

I am with julia on this. I need. And yes, I love. But that need is what drives me to self actualizations... to reach that spiritual high and to grow more and more.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to MsIncognito)

Post #: 20

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