RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (Full Version)

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thishereboi -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/28/2014 6:17:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

So far the planetary count of religions that get by without hating another religion has reached the stratospheric level of 2. And that with some difficulty too. Given that there are thousands of religions and sects available to choose from, finding two doesn't appear to be much of an achievement. Indeed, it's as far from impressive as it can be.

So it would appear that an accurate summary is: Almost all religions hate at least one other religion.

Recalling that many religions foreground virtues such as love and peace, and discourage hate and violence, that answer(s) to the question 'Why do almost all religions hate at least one other religion?' might be intriguing, even dare I say revealing.



He asked for one example, I gave him one. Now I could have listed several off the top of my head, but I doubt that would satisfy him so why bother. I have been to a lot of different churches in my years and I have never found one that didn't teach love and peace and discourage hate and violence. Now I am sure they are out there but to claim almost all do it is just another bullshit lie.

The point of contention here is not what the various religions preach - it is whether they can manage to do their business without hating at least one other religion. On that point, to date, there have been 2 nominations of religions that get by without hating another religion. It is noteworthy that you were unable to add to that grand total, despite your claims.

Once we wade through the platitudes and look at what religions actually do (as opposed to what they claim they do) we find that almost all religions hate at least one other religion.

How much does the failure to answer the question 'Why do so many religions hate other religions?' reveal? We can note the difference between the grandiose claims about love and peace and the actual practice of hatred of other religions as just another example of hypocrisy by organised religion (not that there's any shortage of those). But that still leaves the question unanswered. So, once again:

Why is it that almost all religions hate at least one other religion?


The only thing noteworthy is your inability to understand written english. I was very clear that I was not going to waste my time listing anything for a closed minded individual who wouldn't listen anyway. But if you want to believe some bullshit lie that all religions hate others, then knock your socks off. It won't change life one bit and I honestly don't care. You are the only one on this board that has to live with yourself.




Kirata -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/28/2014 9:09:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Whoa hold up a second, there's been some moving of the goal posts. The claim being contested was:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Every faith hates every other faith.

Ergo all one must do to refute the claim is show one faith which at least tolerates a single other faith, this has been done several times thus far.

Ding ding. We have a Winner!

K.




DomKen -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/28/2014 5:15:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
In all fairness the count is still zero. GotSteel's example was not true. I presented that the Romans did hate other faiths.


Whoa hold up a second, there's been some moving of the goal posts. The claim being contested was:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Every faith hates every other faith.


Ergo all one must do to refute the claim is show one faith which at least tolerates a single other faith, this has been done several times thus far.


Actually there is very little evidence about what the faithful of the Roman pantheon thought of other faiths. We do know that in the early days of Rome during the confrontation with Carthage the Romans did make up lies about the Carthaginian religion. We also know that later when the Empire encountered the Celts they outlawed the practice of their religion inside the Empire. We also know they suppressed the Bacchus cult, Judaism and Christianity. So what you're reduced to arguing is that they tolerated a Romanized version of one Egyptian deity and that they left some faiths alone in conquered territory.

The evidence on the whole seems to indicate that whatever faithful of the Roman pantheon existed they were not tolerant of other faiths.




MrBukani -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/28/2014 6:37:08 PM)

As the Romans extended their dominance throughout the Mediterranean world, their policy in general was to absorb the deities and cults of other peoples rather than try to eradicate them,[4] since they believed that preserving tradition promoted social stability.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_ancient_Rome




MrBukani -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/28/2014 7:15:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

yes the old testament nitpicker[:D] the septuagint

Alexander didn't have the Septuagint translated. It wasn't done until sometime in the 2nd century BCE over 100 years after Alexander died.

We don't actually know who had it translated but the legend associated with it claims it was Ptomely II who was the ruler of Egypt but was a Greek and supposedly had a lot of Jews in Alexandria who didn't speak Hebrew but did speak Greek. We do know it wasn't translated by scholars of Alexander's time because Koine Greek, the dialect it is in, emerged after his death.

Ptolemy was a polytheist. right?
Does this not prove again polytheists are more tolerant?




DomKen -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/28/2014 8:12:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

yes the old testament nitpicker[:D] the septuagint

Alexander didn't have the Septuagint translated. It wasn't done until sometime in the 2nd century BCE over 100 years after Alexander died.

We don't actually know who had it translated but the legend associated with it claims it was Ptomely II who was the ruler of Egypt but was a Greek and supposedly had a lot of Jews in Alexandria who didn't speak Hebrew but did speak Greek. We do know it wasn't translated by scholars of Alexander's time because Koine Greek, the dialect it is in, emerged after his death.

Ptolemy was a polytheist. right?
Does this not prove again polytheists are more tolerant?

I never said every member of every faith felt any way. Maybe you should learn to read for comprehension.




MrBukani -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/28/2014 8:16:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
In all fairness the count is still zero. GotSteel's example was not true. I presented that the Romans did hate other faiths.


Whoa hold up a second, there's been some moving of the goal posts. The claim being contested was:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Every faith hates every other faith.


Ergo all one must do to refute the claim is show one faith which at least tolerates a single other faith, this has been done several times thus far.


Actually there is very little evidence about what the faithful of the Roman pantheon thought of other faiths. We do know that in the early days of Rome during the confrontation with Carthage the Romans did make up lies about the Carthaginian religion. We also know that later when the Empire encountered the Celts they outlawed the practice of their religion inside the Empire. We also know they suppressed the Bacchus cult, Judaism and Christianity. So what you're reduced to arguing is that they tolerated a Romanized version of one Egyptian deity and that they left some faiths alone in conquered territory.

The evidence on the whole seems to indicate that whatever faithful of the Roman pantheon existed they were not tolerant of other faiths.
As the Romans extended their dominance throughout the Mediterranean world, their policy in general was to absorb the deities and cults of other peoples rather than try to eradicate them,[4] since they believed that preserving tradition promoted social stability.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_ancient_Rome

READ![:D]




DomKen -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/28/2014 8:25:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
In all fairness the count is still zero. GotSteel's example was not true. I presented that the Romans did hate other faiths.


Whoa hold up a second, there's been some moving of the goal posts. The claim being contested was:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Every faith hates every other faith.


Ergo all one must do to refute the claim is show one faith which at least tolerates a single other faith, this has been done several times thus far.


Actually there is very little evidence about what the faithful of the Roman pantheon thought of other faiths. We do know that in the early days of Rome during the confrontation with Carthage the Romans did make up lies about the Carthaginian religion. We also know that later when the Empire encountered the Celts they outlawed the practice of their religion inside the Empire. We also know they suppressed the Bacchus cult, Judaism and Christianity. So what you're reduced to arguing is that they tolerated a Romanized version of one Egyptian deity and that they left some faiths alone in conquered territory.

The evidence on the whole seems to indicate that whatever faithful of the Roman pantheon existed they were not tolerant of other faiths.
As the Romans extended their dominance throughout the Mediterranean world, their policy in general was to absorb the deities and cults of other peoples rather than try to eradicate them,[4] since they believed that preserving tradition promoted social stability.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_ancient_Rome

READ![:D]


And I've already pointed out that that article glosses over the facts.
The Romans suppressed every major faith they encountered except the Egyptian. How is that tolerance?




thishereboi -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/28/2014 8:35:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
In all fairness the count is still zero. GotSteel's example was not true. I presented that the Romans did hate other faiths.


Whoa hold up a second, there's been some moving of the goal posts. The claim being contested was:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Every faith hates every other faith.


Ergo all one must do to refute the claim is show one faith which at least tolerates a single other faith, this has been done several times thus far.


Actually there is very little evidence about what the faithful of the Roman pantheon thought of other faiths. We do know that in the early days of Rome during the confrontation with Carthage the Romans did make up lies about the Carthaginian religion. We also know that later when the Empire encountered the Celts they outlawed the practice of their religion inside the Empire. We also know they suppressed the Bacchus cult, Judaism and Christianity. So what you're reduced to arguing is that they tolerated a Romanized version of one Egyptian deity and that they left some faiths alone in conquered territory.

The evidence on the whole seems to indicate that whatever faithful of the Roman pantheon existed they were not tolerant of other faiths.


Personally, I was speaking of how things are today. I could honestly give a rats ass how they felt about each other hundreds of years ago.




MrBukani -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/28/2014 8:35:54 PM)

They absorbed, read again absorbed like a spunge since they believed in social stability.

READ AGAIN!

you say many things but give little to no link to PROVE it.

Read again.[:D]




MrBukani -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/28/2014 8:44:34 PM)

One way that Rome incorporated diverse peoples was by supporting their religious heritage, building temples to local deities that framed their theology within the hierarchy of Roman religion. Inscriptions throughout the Empire record the side-by-side worship of local and Roman deities, including dedications made by Romans to local gods.[6] By the height of the Empire, numerous international deities were cultivated at Rome and had been carried to even the most remote provinces, among them Cybele, Isis, Epona, and gods of solar monism such as Mithras and Sol Invictus, found as far north as Roman Britain. Because Romans had never been obligated to cultivate one god or one cult only, religious tolerance was not an issue in the sense that it is for competing monotheistic systems.[7] The monotheistic rigor of Judaism posed difficulties for Roman policy that led at times to compromise and the granting of special exemptions, but sometimes to intractable conflict.




DomKen -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/28/2014 10:15:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

They absorbed, read again absorbed like a spunge since they believed in social stability.

READ AGAIN!

you say many things but give little to no link to PROVE it.

Read again.[:D]

Sorry but you need to learn some history.
Wiki to start
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_religion_in_ancient_Rome
Rome outlawed
The Bacchus cult
Judaism
Christianity
Druidism
(which is pretty much all the faiths they brought into the empire except the Egyptians).

Roman stories of Carthage sacrificing babies not true.
http://www.livescience.com/23298-carthage-graveyard-not-child-sacrifice.html

The Romans accepted only a relative few faiths outside their official religion and most of those were barely above the level of household shrines.




RottenJohnny -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/28/2014 10:53:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Rome outlawed

Judaism
Christianity


The Romans accepted only a relative few faiths outside their official religion and most of those were barely above the level of household shrines.

Then remind us of who Herod and Constantine were.




MrBukani -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/29/2014 12:40:26 AM)

YOU need to learn some history.[:D]




tweakabelle -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/29/2014 12:55:54 AM)

quote:

if you want to believe some bullshit lie that all religions hate others, then knock your socks off.


Unable or unwilling to produce any evidence to support your blanket denial of the claim that 'Almost all religions hate at least one other religion'.

No surprise there, hating at least one other religion seems to be almost a necessary pre-requisite for a religion - it really is that common.

And no attempt to even address the more important issue which is:

Why do almost all religions hate at least one other religion?

Why is it necessary for the faithful to slaughter each other (as has happened so many times during history and is still happening today)??? Why do the various clergy incite their followers to hate and violence while professing to promote love and peace? This has happened in all parts of the world, is still happening in numerous locations today and there doesn't appear to be any likeliehood of it changing for the better any time soon.




MrBukani -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/29/2014 1:07:45 AM)

I think that's a good topic to discuss Tweak. You should make a topic about it. Some nerds consider me a bigot or racist or whatever. So they formed a coalition against me. Don't post on his threads.[:D]




DomKen -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/29/2014 4:05:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Rome outlawed

Judaism
Christianity


The Romans accepted only a relative few faiths outside their official religion and most of those were barely above the level of household shrines.

Then remind us of who Herod and Constantine were.

Maybe you don't understand that history occurs over time and things that were legal can be made illegal and vice versa?




GotSteel -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/29/2014 4:33:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
And I've already pointed out that that article glosses over the facts.
The Romans suppressed every major faith they encountered except the Egyptian. How is that tolerance?


Could you cite a source for that?

As I understand it even the oppression of Christianity is largely imaginary:


quote:

ORIGINAL:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/the-lookout/notre-dame-professor-tackles-myth-christian-martyrdom-151620492.html
Candida Moss, a professor of early Christianity at the University of Notre Dame and a practicing Catholic, wants to shatter what she calls the “myth” of martyrdom in the Christian faith.

Sunday school tales of early Christians being rounded up at their secret catacomb meetings and thrown to the lions by evil Romans are mere fairy tales, Moss writes in a new book. In fact, in the first 250 years of Christianity, Romans mostly regarded the religion's practitioners as meddlesome members of a superstitious cult.

The government actively persecuted Christians for only about 10 years, Moss suggests, and even then intermittently. And, she says, many of the best known early stories of brave Christian martyrs were entirely fabricated.




chatterbox24 -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/29/2014 4:50:57 AM)

Why?

From the Christian perspective, we are battling with

http://www.gotquestions.org/spiritual-warfare.html




GotSteel -> RE: The Dungeon of monotheism (4/29/2014 4:58:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
The point of contention here is not what the various religions preach - it is whether they can manage to do their business without hating at least one other religion. On that point, to date, there have been 2 nominations of religions that get by without hating another religion. It is noteworthy that you were unable to add to that grand total, despite your claims.


I'll throw another one on to get the ball rolling Unitarian Universalist.




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